Single Riders, Poaching, Park Rules, Ethics, and a side of fries

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angnjc said: "Sometimes it is quicker to run a cycle with a couple of empty seat than to fill all of the seats. That cycles capacity is deminished, but the time savings over the coarse of an hour may allow 2 more cylces, negating the 3 empty seats you ran."

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Good, glad someone else said this. I sometimes think I am the ony person who ever thought this.

I've seen it done before... Your waiting in line for a coaster and the ops are busy trying to fill EVERY AVAILABLE SEAT so that no single riders go out. I have actually noticed a seated single rider being moved to fill in with another single rider so that two riders can enter the train. Mean while, the other train is stacked on the break run waiting for this train to dispatch.

Knoebels does it great. On Phoenix the train comes to a stop. The Buzz Bars go up, the people exit the train. The new riders are practically boarding the train as the previous riders are exiting the train. They are all seated, the buzz bars go down, the train is dispatched. No waiting around, no delays... it is all smooth and swift.

So what if you send a train out with a few empty seats... as long as you are sending it out in a timely manner. There comes a point where you may be sending out fully loaded trains, but because of the loading process of maximizing capacity you are actually taking longer. I would rather have a 10 train wait for 10 minutes and see a few empty seats than a 7 train wait for 15 mintues seeing completely filled trains going out.

I usually am a single rider... and I like being a single rider, but if someone wants to fill in the empty seat next to me, no big deal, I don't care. HOWEVER... flat rides are a different story... especially ENTERPRISE rides... where you are seated one rider behind the other. Sorry... I do not think it is unreasonable to NOT want to ride with a total stranger on one of these considering one rider will be sitting between the legs of the other. *** Edited 8/9/2004 1:39:49 PM UTC by SLFAKE***

I paired people up on the Chaos at SFA all the time, due to several out of order seats. It was easy (well, most of the time) to release the seat restraint and backup t-bar, without unlocking the whole wheel. It was much better to do that then let seats go filled with only one person, as capacity would be severely hurt. I would ask both single riders if they would mind sitting together.

On a related note, the thing that really annoys me is when people who are obviously together split up and take single seats in separate rows. When I see people doing that, I'll purposely get in with them.

I've been a single rider at parks before, mainly Disney and Universal Florida. There was never any problem about my being a single rider and this did pre-date the single rider queues too.

I know that I rode Mantis at CP once with a young boy who was also a single rider. There was room for 2 more so we went in together. I warned him flat out not to get sick on me though. ;)

On "Poaching:"

Why do you think that you should be able to stay on the platform and fill seats while the rest of the riders must exit the station?

What would happen if all 24-36 riders on the train decide to fill seats? Sounds like a cluster f*ck would happen to me.

And don't think that none of the "GP" notices this. I've heard many of them wondering why "that guy gets to ride again" while everyone else acts like a normal human being and walks down the ramp.

On Riding Alone - I'm like that kid. I don't want some freak that I don't know sitting down next to me and giving me a lecture on capacity.

*** Edited 8/9/2004 4:51:27 PM UTC by rocky racoon***

On a Chaos type ride it is not big deal. The seats are divided, the riders are not going to be pressign up against one another (with the possible exception of their arms). It all depends on the seat configuration of the ride. Enterprises, Huss Condors, even with in the same half of a Log flume boat where riders sit "bobsled" style is where I draw the line. I don't mind sharing a log flume boat with a stranger(s) IF that little "seat back" in the middle of the log separates us. However, I don't want someone using me as their back rest, and vice versa.

Get off your high horse, rocky, and come back down to Earth with the rest of us.

Guess what, if I'm an op on a ride, I don't give a rats ass who or what you don't want to ride next to. If that freak next to you is a single rider and wants to lecture you on capacity, you're damn right I'm going to pair him up with you.

Just like it's not your position to fill in empty seats after you have your ride, it's not your position to tell who or what can ride next to you.

JC

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Sue said:
On a related note, the thing that really annoys me is when people who are obviously together split up and take single seats in separate rows. When I see people doing that, I'll purposely get in with them.

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I totally do the same. This is the same issue as the two boys who decided to sit on the outsides of a four seater. My husband and I then took seats 2 and 3. I look at it as there are two empty seats and I'm going to fill them.

My thoughts on Poaching... should be allowed only when it is not extremely busy and only when the Ops say its okay.

Two years ago at PKD I was riding Grizzly near the end of the day. When the train came back into the station there were a total of 4 or so people waiting at two of the gates. The op announced over the P.A. system... "If no one is waiting for your seat, you may ride again. If someone is waiting for your seat, you may select a different seat and ride again..."

Similar to Slfake's comments, the same is done at BGW with Apollo's Charriot. If you are there at the end of the nite, and pick a line other than front or last row, you can continue to ride until all of the lines with peeps waiting have been cleared out. I got 6 or 7 extra laps in one nite alone. *** Edited 8/9/2004 5:06:43 PM UTC by ltlbat*** *** Edited 8/9/2004 5:07:33 PM UTC by ltlbat***

on poaching....

I have seen Nitro ride ops at SFGAdv get really pissed when people try to poach. Just because there is less than the 4 people for a row doesn't mean they are gonna fill every seat. unless the people on the queue line side are helping them do it by doing it for them before the gates open by pairing up sets of 2 and such. most of the time the ride ops the ops fill the seats from the queue and dispatch the train. making it a capacity monster by running three trains and quick loading those that are ready to go when the gates open and move to the seats then locking all the restraints and dispatching this way the wait is regularly shorter than an hour even on a saturday.

ROFL @ Sue....next thing ya know they end up WANTING to sit together, rather than having one of them ride with me and the other ride with Jill....although I can't blame them for not wating to sit next to ME....;)

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rocky racoon said:
On Riding Alone - I'm like that kid. I don't want some freak that I don't know sitting down next to me and giving me a lecture on capacity.

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Check the meeting calendar to make sure you're not at a park the same day I'm there...:)

Edit: There is no lecture *scheduled*, but if you ask for one, the prof reserves the right to hold a class at ANY time....;)
*** Edited 8/9/2004 9:38:59 PM UTC by rollergator***

I agree with SLFAKE on the poaching issue. If a station is loaded, don't do it. I don't even give it a second thought--when I exit the train and want to reride, I exit the station and go around and wait my turn. If I see someone else poaching, well, it's not my problem to deal with. I'm just content knowing I'm not the annoying guy who's just gotta have another ride. I've poached on a few rides, the one I remember most being Tennessee Tornado on an empty September weekday when there were literally no more than about 6 to 10 people in the station at any given time. The ride ops clearly stated that if no one was in line for your seat, you could reride, and if there were people waiting, you could get out and find an empty seat, if you so desired.

Regarding Andy's situation with the 8-year-old: first of all, if you're worried that your kid might be in some danger by riding with a stranger, don't let him get in line by himself. That's a no-brainer...well, I guess it isn't in this day and age, unfortunately. But I'm going to assume that the kid's parents didn't tell him not to accept rides with strangers. That's just silly. But kid or no kid, as a single rider, I'd prefer to ride solo, too, but I'm not going to tell someone to take a hike if he tries to enter the car with me. That's just rude. In fact, I always move to the far seat in case there happens to be another single rider in line. And if a single rider is in front of me and tells me he wants to ride alone, I'm not going to pitch a fit because I have to wait one more ride. I might bring it to the attention of a ride op if one is nearby, but I really don't think it's that much of an issue.

And I agree with part of Vater's post...

Like I sated, I usually am a single rider (my wife and her equilibrium doesn't do as well a I do on coasters) and when I am a single rider, I prefer to ride solo. However, I too usually move over to the far seat in case another single rider wishes to ride. If there is one belt that crosses both seats (like on HP's Lightning Racer), I will wait until the gates close before buckling that belt... just incase another single rider choses to ride. Now if the station is virtually deserted, I won't always wait... but if there are lots of other people there... I will. I have been in situations where I sat down and a nother single rider was waiting in line behind me and they chose to wait for the next train. I've been on both sides of that situation... either the first rider or the waiting rider. If I am the first rider, I will wait till the gates close before securing all restraints that may affect the other rider. If I am the waiting rider, I will wait for the next train unless I am in a hurry or if there is a long wait behind me. If I do decide to ride with another single rider, I will ask if they mind if I hop in the seat next to them. In every case except one they said they didn't mind. Only once (a little kid on the back seat of ROAR at SFA) was I told "No, I ride alone."

Only on very few occasions will I not move to the far seat. Hurricane at Myrtle Beach Pavillion is one of those cases. Being a single rider, riding in the right side of that train can be painful with some of those laterals. Of cousre, when I was there, it wasn't an issue. The station was empty and the operator sanctioned "Poaching" was the rule of the day. I suppose if there were long lines and a single rider was next in line behind me I would have moved over. *** Edited 8/9/2004 7:01:07 PM UTC by SLFAKE***

There is no "Right way" to hold a camera. If you have a camera on ride, there is always a possibility that it could fly away and hurt someone. What Andy is saying about poaching, though, can be done without anybody losing a ride or being treated unfair. Don't get me wrong, I don't poach (unless a ride op says "hey, if you want to sit there and ride again, you can", which has happened before. Its like re-rides.), but if the gates close and the ops aren't busy trying to find someone to fill that seat, its not causing anybody any physical harm, and its not causing longer waits.

I had a kid poach a seat for the front with me on T2. I didn't care, the 2 people behind me in line were together, and there were no other single riders in the queue house. Noone had a longer wait, and no one was physically hurt.

and no one was physically hurt.

Well, until the ride actually started, you mean. ;)

Kyle, you should change your signature to say: "Kyle says: Can you say Mishawaka without smirking?"

You could have a new "Kyle says" from time to time. ;)

Oh wait, poaching? Yah, I prefer braising myself. ;)

Well played, Mr. Fobe.

And youth and treachery will always overcome age and skill. ;)