Shapiro at it again?

Well, I also agree that its a bad idea.

Guest Services/Public Relations will be a disaster as previously stated. At least 1/2 of the guests will not read signs posted. Most will not be informed, and thus be angry about the news. Heck, people still complain about not getting back in because they didn't know they needed a handstamp. (You think I am kidding, but I'm not.)

If the policy is enforced fully, it will not work period. Either a) they will have to revert back to old policy or b) the end result would be a loss in money/attendence/or reputation.

I do however think that they may try to enforce the 6pm type no-entry policy. Guests would be allowed to come and go until a certain point. By that certain time, many families may be heading home or most guests would have not forgot anything or can wait for anything else. As soon as the sun sets, guests in theme parks and waterparks act differently. Accidents increase park wide, guests (especially teens) become more unrulely. This policy would force them to have their one meal in the park (money) and would force them to stay longer (more spending) rather than leaving for a bit and then coming back.

It still would work for almost all guests. It seemed to work at Fright Fest. It would allow those who forgot cameras, diapers, wallets, etc to go back and get them before the rest of their day starts; it would also allow those who brought contraband in such as markers at some parks, knifes, and food to take such items back.

We'll see what Six Flags chooses to do. I honestly dont' believe it will be implimented, but you never know.

End of long post. :P

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Lord Gonchar said:
And if you need your medication now, the difference between 4 hours and 10 is non-existant.

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Actually, for an insulin-dependent diabetic, the difference between 4 and 10 hours can be a severe hospitalization incident. I'm sure there are other examples, but this one is VERY close to me.

There's still a big difference between, say, a sporting event and an amusement park visit. You're mostly stationary at a sporting event, whereas at a park you're doing a variety of activities. In a stadium it's not that much of a pain to carry a sweatshirt in with you and sit there with it, for instance.

But more importantly (again) is the potential difference for medical reasons. I'll run with the insulin-dependent diabetes again, since I KNOW this one.

When I travel somewhere, I take my spare insulin pump with me. If I'm going into something like a sporting event, I can take that in with me, *AND NEVER LEAVE IT OUT OF MY SIGHT*.

At a park, there are times when I'd "have" to leave it in a locker, or in the station. And with something as life-critical as the insulin pump, that's just not an option.

That's an extreme example to be sure, but there ARE differences between a sporting event and a day at the park.

I can't speak for all sporting venues, but here in St. Louis the indoor venues indeed do allow you to re-enter.

I've never needed/attempted to do it at a Rams game, but I do it every time I see a hockey game. All you need is a handstamp. They've got a few security types walking around the garage to make sure you're not getting high or drinking your own beer. Other than that, no questions asked.

I always park in the attached garage, so it's an easy in/out, but I haven't seen anything to make me think you wouldn't be able to walk to your car parked a couple of blocks away if you needed to.

On a different subject, it would be the perfect time to raise the rates on the ATM's inside the park.

edit: A few more differences. In general I would say people have a stronger loyalty to their local sports team (assuming that they are a fan in the first place) than to their local amusement park. I think people would give them a longer leash in terms of what they're willing to put up with.

Also, sporting events and other entertainment options (concert venues) only have a limited number of seats. They can't possibly be making ANY money on not letting people re-enter. It's not like they can resell your ticket, even to you. While it still might irk a patron, at least you know they're definately doing it for security/forgery concerns and not possibly just trying to get a little extra out of you.

*** Edited 1/18/2007 5:59:38 AM UTC by Incidentalist***

Hmmm, differences between watching a sporting event and a day at an amusement park? I can't recall the last sporting event I got soaking wet going down a log flume. I knew I should have renewed my season tickets to the local water polo team. :) Seriously, there's not a comparison.

I'm the guy who went to Hershey and Six Flags over the summer and stayed in the park the whole time. We never left until we went home. That's the beginning note.

Now, I am not the only one, yet I am the minority here. I worked guest relations at an amusement park over the summer, I know what goes down, I know that people are crazy and try to get away with ****. I also know that people...

a.) NEVER READ
b.) Read and think they are special and deserve special attention and an award (such as getting away with what they want to do.)
c.) Play dumb

Say what you want about lockers, oversized plush SpongeBob Squarepants', wet clothes, diapers, etc. The bottom line is enforcement. When I have guards looking through bags to make sure no knifes or glass is brought into the park (with glass being the big problem in water parks), the last thing I want is for them to have to take time away from that, slow down the entry process, and deal with a guest who didn't read the new information, who read it but "It was just this one time and a real emergency!", and/or doesn't care and needs to get in.

If I worked main entry at Six Flags this would be the WORST thing that could happen.

Oh, another note, Gonch, you said Groups and Season Passes' make up 50% of the admission, well, where are the picknick tables set up to eat at? And from experience groups nearly always eat at the picknick tables.

There aren't enough Gonch's and Mole's in the world to keep SF running with this policy in action.

Simple is this No Reentry Polices do not work. You will get tons of complaints. Also, for Fright Fest the No Reentry Policy after 7pm did get several complaints. If you passed by guess relations at that time, you see a huge line formed outside the park and another one inside the park at the Guest Relations Window. Also parks with attached water parks will have major problems. If you want to go to the water park, where will you put your stuff when you are done? In a locker is not going to happen, because the lockers in the Theme park a much smaller then the ones they have in the Water Park. Also, the Water Park has many more lockers then the theme park does. Since the water park closes earlier then the theme park, you can not leave your stuff in the water park lockers. Also, guest will not be happy. Happy guest spend more money.

^Especially hard to rationalize SF's decision at parks with the attached HH. Here in St. Louis the waterpark ALWAYS closes before the theme park, even on its longest operating days. So with this policy, everyone will have to find a locker for their bathing suits if they want to go back to Six Flags for those last few hours of the day or else go home. I can't see them adding enough lockers to accomodate the thousands of people that might want to stay at the park after Hurricane Harbor closes. If they DO implement this policy they WILL have a lot of angry patrons for this one problem alone. Most people who have medical conditions that REQUIRE taking a pill or shot during a long stay at an amusement park know they can leave their meds at first aid. Most people are reasonably prepared to not need to return to the car for something forgotten. That's why we all walk around the park on hot days in cargo shorts. Yes, there will be some who want to save money by leaving the park to eat their own food or at a cheaper restaurant. But I see the locker situation as something that will cause the most complaints. They CAN'T have the no return policy without providing an ample amount of lockers.

All of this because of a unconfirmed rumor on Screamscape. The same site that has posted contradicting reports about Batwing not running at SFA and SFKK getting Batman from SFNO.

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RatherGoodBear said:

Did anyone consider this policy could backfire? What if, when people realized they can't take souvenirs, game prizes, and on-ride photos out to the car without being charged readmission, they decide "screw this, I'm not carrying this s*** around all day-- so we just won't buy any?" Then they're paying people to sit at games and stands where fewer people are spending. Could happen.

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Indeed. Cedar Point already has this in place. It was one thing in 2003 when I was with a group of 15 people for a week @ CP, so I could always pawn the bookbag and souvenir bottle off on someone in my group. Every other time I've been at the Point I've been with either enthusiasts or at the very least coaster-riding friends... My souvenir shopping is limited - I still buy food plus a [free] cup of water. Yes, it'd be nice to get the souvenir bottle with soda, especially with their unlimited-souvenir-refill promos they like to run, but that would mean I cannot ride MF/TTD all of a sudden (those Dragster bottles do not fit in a locker!) unless I take 1/2 hour out of my day to trudge back to the car (and then I can no longer get a refill unless I take ANOTHER 1/2 hour out of my day to retrieve it). If there were someplace I could put the articles, I'd buy more. A *LOT* more. Yes, I could always run and stow it in the car. But it's not exactly a quick jaunt from Meanstreak to the front gate -- much less if you leisurely got in the parking lot around 11am and are 3/4 back, or further.

That brings me to my next point about running out to the car.. is it really that effective? Dollywood, CP, SFGAdv, SFNE, SFMM, PKI, PKD, GL, Lake Compounce, heck even Holiday World! I enjoy all those parks, but those all have some pretty hefty hikes out to the car, even if you have a decent spot! Especially parks like Dollwood, SFMM and SFNE where you could have the absolute closest spot and you're STILL walking a good half mile (or more? I haven't measured it ;) Oh yeah, and the handicapped spots at Dollywood don't count unless you're handicapped! Never before have I seen *2* lots of entirely blue paint!) Yes, they have trams, but then you're at the mercy of the tram schedule. No matter what you're looking at a good 30 minutes out of your day just to grab a camera? Stow that wet shirt that would have dried by the time you got back to the car if you kept wearing it? That's almost 5% of your day (assuming 12 hour day, and you're there from open to close). At $48, it would cost you $2 of time to go to your car. Once. You could consider this policy the fact that they're *forcing* you to get your money's worth! :)

Count me under the unaffected/could care less group. It's just not effective for me to depend on it in the first place. Sure, it's nice to know that if I forgot my cell phone, sunscreen, wallet, jacket, [item] that I can go out and get it, but if I forget it, that's life. I'll suck it up, and you better believe I'll remember it next time.

Oh, and I'd like to know how in the heck you'll even make it in the park if you "forget" your wallet? Admission ticket = not free. Cash or Credit is in your wallet. SP holder? Guess where most people keep those, too! (True story for me once.. didn't realize my wallet was in the car until I go to hand it over to get in the park.. of course, this policy still wouldn't affect me since I'm not in the park yet! I can still go back to my car!)

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coasterdude318 said:

Disney did something similar (in my mind anyway) when they started charging for the park hopper option on their tickets. You used to get free park hopping on a multi-day pass. Now you have to pay for it. Now they're doing better than ever attendance-wise. Go figure!

-Nate
*** Edited 1/18/2007 4:30:29 AM UTC by coasterdude318***

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Now here's a good question, if I go to WDW and visit both Epcot and MGM in the same day, does Disney count my attendence overall as 1 or 2 (I guess two). But what if I go to MGM in the morning hop over to Epcot for lunch and then back to MGM for Fantasmic. Is it one, two, or even three admissions for the day? I mean, I have to scan my ticket at each gate just like fist-timers. Just a question...

As for this policy, I'm in the Gonch camp aka Team Dont Give A ****. (Begin Rumsfeldian speak) Have I *ever* gone out to the car during a day? Yes. Is it something I do routinely? No. Would such a policy discourage me from going to a particular park? No. Can I live with trudging all my crap around with me all day? Yes. Have I ever had wet clothes? Yes. Is this going to piss off some people? By Golly You Bet! Are these enough people to hurt the company? Well that's an unknowable unknown. (/end Rumsfeldian)

Seriously, if this was Cedar Point with its seeming assault on backpacks, I'd be a little more worried. But it seems like most SF parks I've been to have guests who have no problem with carrying large packs full of their crap. Additionally, it seems to me that many are unwilling to take their "prizes" to the car as the exit platforms are literred with basketballs, Pikachaus, and squeeze bottles.

Better yet, I'll give you a real life example from me. Lady T and I went to Lake Compounce with the intention of visiting the waterpark. I got a locked, visited the dry park for a while, went back to the locker, changed into swim gear, did the water park and changed back into dry clothes. Now, LC has no prohibition on returning to the car, but when I was done with the swim stuff, I didnt leave the park. Instead, I packed all my crap in my bookbag and just carried it around with me the rest of the night. I would imagine that many people visiting an SF attached waterpark would do the same (or rent a locker in the dry park if available) or hey, just go home.

Again, like Gonch, I agree that this could be a risk, but a calculated one. I dont think the intention is to increase ticket sales on re-admits, but rather to urge ;) people to buy french fries, sweatshirts, ponchos, etc.. And I actually think it has a good chance of working. People *are* sheep you know.
lata, jeremy
--always the black sheep (no pun intended)

Hey, maybe this really is a good idea. They could extend it to shopping malls. ;)

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coasterguts said:All of this because of a unconfirmed rumor on Screamscape. The same site that has posted contradicting reports about Batwing not running at SFA and SFKK getting Batman from SFNO.

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Please realize that this *rumor* has the greatly-added credibility of having SF already done some "trial implementations", and it's been posted to their websites before. This isn't just some "crackpot theory"....if it were, then it would have come from me... ;)

I know that when my kids were toddlers and we would go to PKD, we always stayed at one of the hotels right by the park and it was nice to be able to get our hands stamped, go back to the room and allow the kids to take a nap, change clothes, etc and go back to the park later in the evening. I'm sure there are families that also do this at some SF parks. A no same day re-entry would seem to be anti-family in this respect.

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2Hostyl said:|
Now here's a good question, if I go to WDW and visit both Epcot and MGM in the same day, does Disney count my attendence overall as 1 or 2 (I guess two).

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That's what I would guess also, though I have nothing concrete to back that up. It seems that if you're visiting two different parks, they'd both get a tally in their respective attendance columns for the day. If you were to leave Epcot for MGM and return to Epcot later in the day, I doubt you would be counted as attending Epcot twice. I assume the gate has the ability to recognize that your ticket has already been used at that park for the day.

But then again, I don't work for Disney. :)

-Nate (still wouldn't care about the no re-entry policy)

I have seldom stayed at a crappy SF park long enough to require going out to the car for anything. Three or four hours usually does it for me. Now if a really good place tried to pull this kind of idiotic thing, then I might get upset.

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rollergator said:

Please realize that this *rumor* has the greatly-added credibility of having SF already done some "trial implementations", and it's been posted to their websites before. This isn't just some "crackpot theory"....if it were, then it would have come from me...

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I'm familar with what they tried to pull last year and SFA didn't allow anybody to re-enter after 6:00pm during Fright Fest. Yeah, sure, they could try it again, or this whole rumor is might have been started by a ex-Six Flags Employee with the intention of making the company look bad. Yeah, sure I can see them restricting re-entry after 6:00pm on nights when they have special events that are expected to draw large crowds (concerts, Fright Fest) but I just don't see them doing this all day.

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2Hostyl said:
Have I *ever* gone out to the car during a day? Yes. Is it something I do routinely? No. Would such a policy discourage me from going to a particular park? No. Can I live with trudging all my crap around with me all day? Yes. Have I ever had wet clothes? Yes. Is this going to piss off some people? By Golly You Bet! Are these enough people to hurt the company? Well that's an unknowable unknown. (/end Rumsfeldian)

I agree that this could be a risk, but a calculated one. I dont think the intention is to increase ticket sales on re-admits, but rather to urge people to buy french fries, sweatshirts, ponchos, etc.. And I actually think it has a good chance of working. People *are* sheep you know.

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For those of you bored to tears by my long-winded and repeated posts on the subject, just read what I quoted from Jeremy's post. It sums up everything.

It's like CliffsNotes for Gonch posts. :)

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Disney count my attendence overall as 1 or 2 (I guess two).

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The Anaheim properties credit one "attendee", and it is credited to the first park visited that day. I don't know for sure, but suspect the Orlando properties do the same.

The revenue streams are accounted for separately though. If I remember back from my days scouring the mouseplanet boards (where the serious Anaheim people hang out): standard hoppers are apportioned based on visits, and entering both parks in the same day credits both parks with a share of the revenue in some way. Promotionals (like the Southern California 2-fer) have a fixed percentage to each park---maybe 2/3 DL vs. 1/3 DCA, or something like that---no matter whether both "ends" of the promotion are used or not.

There seem to be many fewer "insiders" who post about the Orlando operation on the east-coast-focused boards that I read, so I'm a lot less clear on the financial models there.

Oh, and on the topic: the new policy will not be responsible for the death of six flags. Take it to the bank. As Menken observed: no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.

I dont know how they credit it, but I do know even back in 1999 that Disney knows where they're hoppers have been. We had been at the park enough days that our handstamps had become illiegble (really just a gigantic blob of yellow, as we all saw to our amusment on any dark ride using UV light) so one day on our way into Epcot when we started to explain the situation to her, she just looked at her screen and said no problem, hope you enjoyed your morning at Typhoon Lagoon and that you have a great day at Epcot!

My guess is that they do the samething that Disneyland does.

Handstamps at Disney. What a blast from the past.