Shapiro at it again?

LOL! You guys are too funny, all the ruffled feathers for probably nothing! SFDK's new website just went live today, clearly shows nothing's changed regarding their re-entry policy:

http://www.sixflags.com/parks/discoverykingdom/ParkInfo/guestservices.html

*** Edited 1/17/2007 10:55:43 PM UTC by jomo***

Everybody in the coaster community seems to say "I don't care" when it comes to Six Flags. Yet every thread on the subject is among the most utilized. Hmmm....

SO much to cover, so little time. :)

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Chuck said:
You don't care? But you want them to do this?

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Pretty much. Don't care because it doesn't affect me. Would like them to do it because I think it's be really interesting to see if it negatively affects the parks.

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janfrederick said:
You probably didn't pull wings off of flies or burn ants with magnifying lenses when you were a kid, but liked watching other kids do it didn't you?

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It's like you're in my head today. :)

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Gator said:
Let's say I want to go to GAdv, but, as a sensible person, I want to take the kids thru the safari during the heat of the day, and enjoy the AC in my decked-out Sixmobile. After we've spent an hour or so driving thru with the "natural" animals at the safari, we decide we're ready to rejoin the *other* animals, inside the main park...what then?

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Yeah, that's kind of like the on-site hotel example. Can't wait to see how that would pan out. (still don't think they'll actually do it though)

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Gator also said:
I don't think Gonch is saying HE doesn't care...(he'll have to post to clarify, LOL).

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No, I'm saying I don't care if they impliment such a policy. It won't affect me - even if I do end up getting stuck visiting a SF park this year. I don't leave the parks generally. Not saying it's a great policy or that it's a brilliant business approach - just that I don't think it'll kill the company just like raising prices didn't kill the company.

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Vincent Greene said:
You have a very rich perspective.

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Rich as in, "deep, strong, or vivid"
or like, "abounding in desirable elements or qualities"
or even like, "of great value or worth; valuable?"

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Vincent Greene then said:
I on the other hand was raised poor and every family I knew as a youth went back to the car for snacks and such and my mother in a million years (god bless her soul) wouldn't pay $7 for a locker.

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Oh I see. Rich meaning, "having wealth or great possessions; abundantly supplied with resources, means, or funds; wealthy" ;)

If only that were the case. I too grew up in a very low income family and in fact only visited an amusement park twice with my parents from birth until I moved out. So while some kids had to go back to the car for snacks and couldn't spring for a locker, I couldn't go to the park in the first place.

(wipe the tears from your eyes people!)

You're right - it's a matter of perspective. In my little world it's not a big deal. In yours it is. We both see it from our POV and we both think we represent the majority. All I know is that bumping the gate, parking and every last tidbit inside the park didn't stop people from spending - they spent 13% more on average last season. I take my POV and mix in the actual numbers and come to the conclusion that people would pay for lockers.

Nevermind the fact that all the lockers at parks seem quite full when I do need one. :)

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RGB said:
Come to think of it, the only time I ever left and re-entered a park with a gate (Knoebels doesn't count) was when I was in a park at the same time as Gonch-- except he didn't know that, till now.

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See, you know what I mean then. :)

And I believe it was Dorney Park, May 21, 2005 - correct?

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RGB then asked:
So, what IS the real reason SF may be implementing this? Of course it's just to make more money. I'm sure somewhere in those numbers only they have access to, there's a calculation of how much money they think they'll snag from people re-entering the park. But if it really won't affect that many people as some people think, then why bother in the first place?

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I think it's like Gator said. They're drawing their line in the sand and identifying the demo they want to cater to. People who are more likely to spend inside the park. I don't think it's a cash grab at the gate at all. Seems more like a captive guest is a guest that must spend...or leave and that they're gambling on the former, not the latter. I like the odds personally.

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rablat5 said:
Dang, just when you think Gonch might not side with Sharpie, he still does! :)

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And I did last year when the subject came up too. :)

Gonch's bottom line:

• I do think it's an odd (maybe even ill-advised...maybe) approach.
• I don't care if they implement it because it won't affect me. No apologies there.
• I don't think it will harm business in the way some of you do.
• I don't think they're quite ready to go through with it anyway. I've been wrong before though and apparently they pulled this in Mexico, so...

I think that's all for now.

Me: Hi, is this where I get my hand stamped for re-entry?
Guard: Actually, sir, we have a strict policy restricting that now.
Me: Oh, wow, I didn't know that. I was just going out to get my wife's cell phone, is it really that big of a problem?
Guard: Yes sir, we have to enforce the rules equally now.
Me: Oh...is there somewhere else I can go to talk about this? Maybe a supervisor.
Guard: I would try customer service.

*walks over to customer service, 2 minutes have passed*

Me: Hi, I don't know if you're the person who handles this sort of thing, my wife really needs her cell phone now that we're done with the water rides and I didn't realize we weren't going to be able to go out and get it. I was told I wasn't able to do that but it was no problem last year, I got my hand stamped and everything.
Customer Service: Oh, I apologize for that, the signage out front clearly states now that once you leave the park re-entry is not allowed.
Me: Right, I understand that, but I'm going to be gone for 5 minutes to walk out to the car and then I'll be right back.
CS: I'm sorry sir but this is now our policy and our guards have to enforce it with everyone.
Me: Do you have a supervisor?
CS: Sure, let me see if he is available, just a moment.

*waits for supervisor, 2 more minutes have passed*

Supervisor: Hello, sir, how can I help you today?

....should I keep going with this or have I typed out enough yet?

^Oh, keep going. I am sure when you are finished you will be speaking with Shapiro himself over the phone in this story. :)

matt. It took you only 2 minutes to get to the front of the line at Guest Services? Every time I go to a SF park I have a problem I need to speak to GS about and it always takes me at least 15 minutes due to the many complaints they get.

You know, every time I leave a park, even a SF park, I sometimes have to wait in line to get my hand stamped for re-admission, so that imo disproves the theory that not a lot of people leave and re-enter the parks. There's almost always a lot of people trying to get their hand stamped.

What if it's SF's idea that any publicity is good publicity. We're talking about SF, aren't we? Maybe they leak this stuff out to create controversy. *** Edited 1/18/2007 3:32:17 AM UTC by dexter***

....so, theoretically, I could pay for a season parking pass, stand outside the gates, and make good money fetching people's cell phones (and insulin, and lunches, and dry towels) from their cars.... ;)

Of course, if YOUR situation is urgent, you can pay for my upgraded "fast-fetch" service...for a small fee. :)

edit...quoth Gonch: "I think it's like Gator said. They're drawing their line in the sand and identifying the demo they want to cater to. People who are more likely to spend inside the park. I don't think it's a cash grab at the gate at all.

I don't know that I phrased it as eloquently, but yeah, that's the premise of my argument.

..and when I said you "cared", I meant that you were a nice guy who sympathizes...not that you personally were emotionally attached to the policy either way. I'm ALWAYS willing to be wrong....or else I'd have to post less... ;)

Finally, since I see dex posted WHILE I was posting (darn you dex)...that DOES seem to pose a possible problem, those handstamps ARE very popular, meaning a LOT of customers use re-emtry for WHATEVER reason...hmmmmmm. Good point.....something to ponder.

*** Edited 1/18/2007 3:41:27 AM UTC by rollergator***

How about this one?

My family is approaching the gate at a SF park. I notice a sign mentioning re-entry policy.

Me (to family): Wow! Look at that sign you guys! They don't allow re-entry anymore.

Me (to nearby employee): Is this true? Once we're inside, we can't re-enter?

Employee: Yup.

Me (to family): Everyone have everything they need for the day?

Family: Yes.

Me: Cool, let's go.

...should I keep going (explaining in detail how great the day was not waiting in line thanks to a Q-bot purchase) or have I typed enough out yet? ;)

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Seriously, the parks did this for Fright Fest - and even added the confusion of only enforcing it in the evenings. How did they manage? Anyone visit then and come face-to-face with policy enforcement? I didn't hear of any major issues, so why would this be any different?

Now YOU post....I can't keep up. I quit... ;)

LOL! :)

The way I see it, Six Flags is in major debt for a reason, and chances are, will be for a while. Obviously there aren't as many people saying "I don't care" as they need. (me not being one of them, packing my lunch and what not most of the time or leaving for somewhere cheaper)

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There's almost always a lot of people trying to get their hand stamped.

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I suspect it's a YMMV situation, but I suppose I can give that to you. :)

So how about some speculative (fuzzy?) math?

We've established that roughly half of their business is groups and SP holders. Is it safe to assume these people wouldn't really be affected by a policy like this? I think so. Groups are one-time special event types and SP holders probably spend less time at more visits, are generally less likely to leave and return and probably don't spend as much in the park.

So we have 50% of the guests left unaccounted for.

How many of those people leave the park and come back? I'm sure some would say at least half, I'd bet it's much lower - closer to 10%. Can we just use a ballpark figure and say 20% of the remaining half?

(considering an average day at the biggest SF parks is probably 20,000 people - that's still a whopping 2000 people a day - 167 an hour on a 12 hour day - 3 every minute - leaving the park supposedly with intentions to return)

Now we have to wonder how many would decide to no longer visit because of this policy. Let's go with the now generic standard of half.

What we end up with is an average 5% loss in attendance. Although I'm sure some would put the percentages higher, while I would put them lower, but this seems like a nice "meeting in the middle" to me. I even rounded up on the average daily hours. (I'm really trying here :) )

As of the latest reports, per cap spending averaged $37.89. To make up that attendance loss each guest has to spend an additional $1.90 while 'captive' in the park.

Think that's going to happen?

*** Edited 1/18/2007 4:03:58 AM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

Damn Gonch.

You have an answer for everything. You should become a politician. :)

I'd be so good at it too. I look like I believe what I'm saying most of the time. ;)

What's to stop Six Flags from simply selling an "upgrade" that allows you unlimited re-entry to the park? I'm guessing that most people would find $5-$10 to be fairly reasonable for the privilege to leave and re-enter the park, and it'd be easy money for Six Flags.

That's what I'd do anyway.

-Nate

Are you kidding me?

I would never pay money just to have the option of running out to my car.

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coasterdude318 said:
I'm guessing that most people would find $5-$10 to be fairly reasonable for the privilege to leave and re-enter the park, and it'd be easy money for Six Flags.

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Unless Gator's "fast-fetch" service is running less than that.

...then again, I'm not sure I'd trust Gator with my car keys. ;)

If you wouldn't pay to have the option of running to your car, then the answer is simple: bring all of your crap in the first time.

But I'm willing to bet there ARE quite a few people who'd pay for it. Disney did something similar (in my mind anyway) when they started charging for the park hopper option on their tickets. You used to get free park hopping on a multi-day pass. Now you have to pay for it. Now they're doing better than ever attendance-wise. Go figure!

-Nate
*** Edited 1/18/2007 4:30:29 AM UTC by coasterdude318***

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coasterdude318 said:
If you wouldn't pay to have the option of running to your car, then the answer is simple: bring all of your crap in the first time.

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Reminds me of a thread on another forum about line jumping. You know, those people who "just want to get back to their group" people. (I never let those people go by). But it's hard to expect some people to be prepared for a full day, judging by the amount of people who can't even be prepared to stand in a line for a ride (little Suzie wants a drink, Johnny has to pee, mom needs to go back to dad to hand him her camera she can't take on... we forgot someone...) *** Edited 1/18/2007 4:43:47 AM UTC by P18***

True. So if someone screws up, pay the $5-$10. Simple. ;)

-Nate

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coasterdude318 said:
What's to stop Six Flags from simply selling an "upgrade" that allows you unlimited re-entry to the park?

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I was thinking the same thing. I almost wouldn't be surprised it if happened.

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crazy horse said:
I would never pay money just to have the option of running out to my car.

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Sounds a lot like someone saying, "I would never pay money just to have the option of jumping to the front of the line."