Shapiro at it again?

Those of you that post elsewhere may have already seen this but I think it's good to add it here. Also the last part pertains to one park, Great Adventure since it kind of is a different animal, pun intended.

I think it's definitely a ploy to make people eat in the parks.

The issue I see is people with health issues, thinking diabetics that carry insulin with them. These people need the medications to be kept cold. Which means a cooler, which most parks will not allow in the gates. Now how do you deal with that scenario? Have them go to customer service and get a special pass to go back to the car or do they now get to bring the cooler in?

I tend to be in the minority and eat at any park I attend so it's not a big deal to me.

But I can see some parks, Great Adventure being one, that this will cause major issues. How do you go to the safari mid day, will the safari now be a do it before or after your park time, or will they make you ride a bus?

I'm sure GregLeg will chime in, but I believe most every park in the universe will allow guests to either bring coolers in for medical reasons, or to store medications in a refrigerator at some in-park location.

For exmample, Cedar Point:

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Picnic baskets and coolers are welcome at the shelters located outside Cedar Point near the Main Entrance. With the exception of special diet/need items (which may be kept in a small cooler), outside food and beverages are not allowed in the park. Un-opened bottled water may be brought into the park.

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And WDW:

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Items with wheels, such as wagons, skateboards, scooters, inline skates, shoes with built-in wheels, two-wheeled or three-wheeled conveyances, strollers larger than 36" x 52", suitcases, coolers, or backpacks with or without wheels larger than 24" long x 15" wide x 18" high (coolers required for medication may be stored in a locker or at Guest Relations), and any trailer-like object that is pushed or towed by an ECV wheelchair or stroller

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I can't find a statement about coolers/medication on the Six Flags web site, but an '06 SFFT park map says:

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The First Aid Station is located... Guests may store medications here during their visit.

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i am all for this idea, i went to the park many times and saw people tailgating in the park( almost like a football game). when you think about this, it is causing the park to lose money. i know when it was talked about originaly they were going to allow reentry to the park for the Season pass holders. i think they would probably lower some prices at the park if this was to happen.

-MRHSF

Before I got the insulin pump, First Aid was ALWAYS our first stop on any park visit, to drop off the cooler of insulin.

The employees at the Kennywood and Cedar Point stations were always very friendly and got to know us, but it was a royal pain in the ass, to be honest.

Maybe Shapiro will start adding pharmacies at all parks (CVS-- the official drug distributor for Six Flags!) and that problem will be solved. :)

I don't know if I'd trust my drugs with any SF employee. I'd be afraid they'd spill them, switch them, sell them, or pull out the plug on the fridge so they could plug in a boombox. :)

^ya know, that has a nice ring to it.

SFCVS how can i help you?
Sure, we carry Oxcontin.
Oh yes, we'll definately have it at under the Street-price at all locations except MD.

(the jingle)
SF with CVS
For rides and drugs
without the mess.

:)

I think it is a great idea and will help cut down on illegal activity in the parking lots. Drinking, drugs, bootleg hand stamps, etc. The only people that are mad are the ones that want to save $$ bringing their own lunch. Did I read a post where some jerk brings his/her dog(s) and leaves them to rot in the hot car in the parking lot while selfishly riding coasters?!?! Would you like to be locked in a hot car? I hope the MSPCA arrests your sorry butt.

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MRHSFalcon said:
i think they would probably lower some prices at the park if this was to happen.

-MRHSF

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HAHAHAHAHA!!! Lowering prices would be SF's last resort. It was CP's last resort, imho, in trying to keep attendance level. SF is in debt, remember. If the few above average income people who they want to visit their park are willing to pay $5 for a hot dog, because it's just money and they have more than enough to throw around, than they'll keep charging it.

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MRHSFalcon said:
i am all for this idea, i went to the park many times and saw people tailgating in the park( almost like a football game). when you think about this, it is causing the park to lose money.

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I wonder if people do this as much at parks with food that's actually tasty at somewhat-reasonable prices.

Knoebels, Kennywood, Holiday World, Hershey, Cedar Point, Kings Island, Knott's, IOA, most Busch, and most Disney parks come to mind. It's not like they don't exist.

Point being if you see loads of people leaving your park for lunch and dinner it may be a problem with your park as opposed to a problem with your patrons.

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Knoebels, Kennywood, Holiday World, Hershey, Cedar Point, Kings Island, Knott's, IOA, most Busch, and most Disney parks come to mind. It's not like they don't exist.

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So...what? Like 20 parks in the US have what could be considered 'good' food and/or 'reasonable' prices. And those 20 parks cover pretty much Central PA, Eastern Ohio, LA and Orlando.

I guess the point is, it's clearly the exception. (and I'd disagree with a couple of those picks)

Here's the thing, I've seen people sitting at their cars eating at most of regional parks you've mentioned.

Perhaps there's always a segment of people who will do that and SF has decided not to try to attract that style of customer anymore.

I really don't see the problem in narrowing your business focus. Sure, SF's approach seems a bit out there at times, but I can't fault the intentions.

^^ I see very few people eating meals they brought with them to the park at Disney. Though that probably has to do more with most people on vacation and not taking a day trip to a park.

The food places were so popular that you had to stand and wait for someone to finish eaiting and grab the table as soon as they got up in order to get a table (it was like this at all counter service restaurants).

I did find prices at Disney somewhat reasonable though. $5.70 for a cheeseburger with fries for example and a large soda for $2.39 (and bottled sodas for $2 - $2.50). That same size large soda I belive is $3.99 at Six Flags and the bottled sodas are $3.50 at Six Flags

Gonch, I think the whole thing is similar to what you said in the reading (or rading) thread. People might never or hardly ever go to their cars or otherwise leave and re-enter, but they sure as hell don't want someone tellling them they can't.

I'd say you're probably right, RGB. It will undoubtedly piss people off.

It will not immediately make those same people refuse to visit or return.

If the policy comes to pass it will certainly require me to make some adjustments.

My family doesn't typically go to parks too often as none of them are real fond of thrill rides or coasters.

I've always gone to parks as part of business travel or in the case of SFGAm I often go on the weekends and meet up with people I know there for a few hours.

I've always liked to go in at opening, stay for a few hours, go back to the hotel to do some work on the computer, and then head back to the park later.

I'll have to limit my trips if I can't continue to leave to do work-related things and be able to come back.

I realize I'm probably not the typical pass-holder (whatever that is) but this policy will have a negative effect on me.

Brad, that sort of falls in line with what I posted about about how when my kids were toddlers, we would go to PKD and stay at a hotel close by so that in the afternoon when the kids were tired and needed a nap, we could go back to the room and give them a rest and then return for a few more hours in the evening. It never really had anything to do with the cost or quality of food available in the park, because if we wanted something, we got it. My kids are older now and what ever park we visit we usually get a locker for the day and rarely if ever return to the car.

But, If my kids were still little and we were planning a family trip, we would still take into consideration the fact that we would be able to take the kids back to the room for a few hours and then return to the park later at a park like PKD as compared to a SF park that we would not be allowed to re-enter the same day.

I don't think it will be the end of SF either if a policy like this is made, but it would seem to go against their claims of wanting to attract families.

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Lord Gonchar said:Here's the thing, I've seen people sitting at their cars eating at most of regional parks you've mentioned. Perhaps there's always a segment of people who will do that and SF has decided not to try to attract that style of customer anymore.

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LOL, I think they've gone one better, they've decided not only do they *not* want to ATTRACT that segment, they'd really just prefer that those customers stay home instead.

My best guess...many of the "low-margin" customers will CONTINUE to get the not-so-subtle hint, and WILL stay home. Attendance will drop, margins (e.g., per-caps) will increase, and SF ends up in pretty much the same place...treading water. They might even make a LITTLE more money...but I don't see this model providing the maximum profitability. For that, they really need to do the best job of getting the most money out of the MOST customers...not just the high-end ones. As always, I'm willing to be wrong....so I'll even hazard my '07 WAGs.

Attendance, chain-wide, down 3%
Margins, up 5%

So, by SOME reckoning, I guess that would be a successful year....better than '06, anyway... ;)

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Lord Gonchar said:
So...what?

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The point was that if this is such a problem at Six Flags parks, or if something about going out to your car is really cutting into their margins so badly one way or another, fixing the parks is a *better* solution than fixing whatever you perceive is wrong with your patrons.

*Better* being my own personal, arbitrary philosophy about how businesses should be run.

And yeah, you're right, I've seen people eating in the parking lots at most of the parks I mentioned, but I never claimed that those parks have somehow avoided that altogether, implying otherwise is pretty dodgy.

At the end of the day, I still agree with those who claim this wouldn't possibly make or break the SF chain, because like I said before, if it were to come about it's still completely unenforceable and wouldn't last an entire season, anyway.

At least I'm hoping so, at this point I almost want to see it happen just for the chance for me to be completely right or completely wrong. I have to admit the drama would be pretty amazing. :) *** Edited 1/20/2007 1:27:59 AM UTC by matt.***

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At least I'm hoping so, at this point I almost want to see it happen just for the chance for me to be completely right or completely wrong. I have to admit the drama would be pretty amazing.

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Yeah, I'm with you right there.

Anyone know how they did it at the Mexico park?

The funny thing is we all have our ideas and have taken our stand on the appropriate side of the fence, but there's really not much guessing that has to take place. They ran this at the Mexico park full time (at least the Screamscape rant made it seem that way) and they did it in small doses last fall with the no 6pm re-entry - which to me seems like WAY more of a fiasco. ("But I just ran to my car two hours ago and now I can't!?")

Funny how none of us (there was one post in this thread) seem to have any experience with how they enforce it and the general reaction.

I mean it's not like we have to theorize - they've run this policy at parks already!

For about 12 years I organized and put on punk/rock concert events. I sold sodas and snacks inside the venue at a very reasonable price. I had a few glow-in-the-dark stamp pads and a black light to allow re-entry.

I sold a lot of sodas and snacks. I sometimes ran out before the show ended. Let me reiterate that I sold them at a very reasonable price.

I also charged a very reasonable price for admission. I was very friendly to each paying customer, thanking them at the front door as they paid. I presented some very popular local and out-of-town bands, always searching for a new act to book.

I advertised like crazy. I saw a raise in attendance throughout the years.

Nothing in this post is embellished. I would have never thought it a good idea to raise my admission prices in order to attempt to get rid of a certain group of people. There is a right way and a wrong way to entertain paying customers. I think SF could learn something from a small time punk/rock concert promoter.

...And I didn't even mention the Haunts I used to be involved with; very successful, by the way.

Well, assuming we play along that the comparison is valid:

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I sold a lot of sodas and snacks. I sometimes ran out before the show ended. Let me reiterate that I sold them at a very reasonable price.

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Did you ever try upping the price? Who's to say you still wouldn't have run out if you sold them at twice the price? You have the control sample, but no experimental sample. Just because you sold out doesn't mean you're running at the maximum profit level.

I love your input Dex, but you got to get over the idea that selling to the masses is always the best business model. It becomes even less true as the product become less and less essential - like amusement parks.