Shapiro at it again?

The problem with infinitely expanding your park is that every new ride, show, and attraction increases the cost to *operate and maintain* the park. Even to run the park on a rainy day with minimal attendance costs more and more. On MOST days, (most!) parks can handle a truly incredible amount of guests...but if you aren't going to DRAW over 4M, and almost no one does, you have to keep operating costs down to a reasonable level.

The trick is to operate your park in such a way as to earn the most money after expenses. Since the parks aren't going to grow infinitely, they need to get the most out of the most guests, while keeping them "happy enough". Customer surveys seem to indicate that people are quite satisfied. One of the ways you keep them satisfied is by not *overcrowding* the parks. Higher prices do that. Unfortunately, they achieve that result by keeping out some people who'd love to come to the park (or come more often), but simply can't afford to. It IS a business, and SF is in SERIOUS financial problems.....building on to capacity isn't going to generate revenues as fast as raising prices does. Upping the cost of a day out keeps crowds reasonable, costs them nothing, and adds directly to profits badly needed to pay interest on the remaining debt....1.8Billion-ish?

You guys still don't get it. You make it sound like Six Flags doesn't know what they're doing, as if SF is run by a bunch of drunkin' misguided fools. It is the company's willingness to blaze new ground, to try new things, to cross boundaries that makes it stand out, and that's where you see the leadership. Six Flags is not a follower. The largest amusement company in the world follows nobody.

They're not out to follow Disney's lead in their whole happiest place on earth mis-adventure. That's their thing and they can have it. I mean, when was the last time you heard someone say, "Six Flags is the happiest place on earth!" People don't say it because Six Flags is looking at the bigger picture.

Parks wanting to reach the next level can't be all about the good experiences. That's too one dimentional. Life's memorable moments are not just the happy times, but the miserable ones as well. Exstacy and pain, that's what impacts people.

Visiting Six Flags is never just the one note of good times you may get from a Disney park. No, sometimes you despair in the baking sun for three hours, then bang you are flying on an exciting coaster. Minutes later you are angry because your feet are blistering and the park won't let you go back to your car. Highs and lows like life only more intense making your visit one to remember.

Six Flags doesn't need to be the happiest place on earth to be memorable or to make a killing profit. No, they just to show us how fun pain can be, and we'll pay them for it. *** Edited 1/27/2007 6:21:39 AM UTC by rc-madness***

Right, Gator.

And something that also seems to get overlooked is that Shapiro seems to be spending the money both in lower numbers and more wisely. Even if they only maintain revenue levels, the lower cap ex will result in increased profits on the bottom line.

How many different ways can 'less is more' be explained? ;)

You mean, when they laid off their costumed characters last summer, and they keep a certain number of coasters and other rides closed, it actually means there are more characters and rides?

Thanks for the explanation. :)

RGB, Six Flags free since 1978.

More that aren't there. Yes. ;)

Less is more.

(glad I'm typing because I could've never said that with a straight face)

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Lord Gonchar said:

You're right. It is genius. The only thing is they already offered something like this last year. But it was optional.

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Argh! I wish I would have seen that on my trips last year. That actually does seem (to me) like a really good value. And would have only cost me $74.99 since I have my SF Season Pass.

Generally when I go I actually don't get the QBot (I would not be able to afford it 10+ times a summer) however 2 meal vouchers and 2 snack vouchers are about $40 worth of food that I usually spend anyway, Go Karts are fun, and I've always wanted to go on eruption but don't see it worth the money. I generally do buy merchandise (gifts for friends), so that's another $10 savings for me. So I would have paid $25 for the Q-Bot, and gotten Go Karts, Eruption, a souvenir bottle, and some games for free. (Yeah, I'm not doing the climbing wall.. there are certain things I'm not good at. I'll give it to little Johnny who wants to but his mother doesn't want to pay for it. That way they get a little ray of sunshine, and it doesn't go to waste. :) )

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rc-madness said:
The largest amusement company in the world follows nobody.

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You're right -- Cedar Fair doesn't follow anybody!

SFMM, SFDK, SFEG, SFOG, SFGAm, SFKK, SFNO, SFA, SFNE, SFStl, SFGAdv, SFDL, TGE, SFOT, SFFT, Wild Waves, La Ronde, SF Mexico

I count 18, but 7 were sold and 1 is not operating, bringing it down to 10, vs. Cedar Fair's 12:

Cedar Point, Geauga Lake, Valleyfair!, Worlds of Fun, Dorney Park, Michigan's Adventure, Knott's Berry Farm, King's Island, King's Dominion, Great America, Carowinds, Canada's Wonderland

(I also find it interesting that they still have the sold properties on Six Flags' website)

rc-madness is doing some avant-garde meta-posting large scale sarcasm stuff, the likes of which this board has never seen.

At least I think he is, maybe this is going over my head.

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dexter said:

I do have an idea about how SF could get more people to spend more money, seriously and not sarcastically. They could force you to spend in the park by adding Flashpass to the admission and adding a certain amount of "Six Flags Bucks" to the price.

Regular admission is not offered anymore. Option 1 is only $145 per person per day. You get admission to the park for one day (no reentry), FREE! flashpass, FREE! $50 in Six Flags Bucks, and 2 FREE! bottles of soda (a $5 valus!).

Option 2 is only $250 per person per day and gives you, admission to the park (FREE! re-entry allowed once per day), FREE! GOLD flashpass, FREE! $100 in Six Flags Bucks, 2 FREE! bottles of soda, and $25 in game coupons.

Don't forget that this is after the $15 parking fee.

I am a genius! Where do I sign up for Sharpio's job?

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I apologise if I've missed something (this is a long topic) and/or this has already been said by someone else........ but if everyone were forced to buy a Flashpass/Gold Flashpass or equivalent as part of their admission price, how would these passes then ever be a real benefit to anyone? Some visitors now choose to purchase them because the additional expenditure gives them an advantage over those who choose to save their money and wait in lines. If everyone has them, well, in reality no one has them. Or perhaps you have a Platinum Flashpass waiting in the wings? :)

Doesn't Disney essentially already do this?

I think I agree with what 'gator was getting at in his last post. If you reach an admission price point that limits the number of peeps through the gates, even a little, and you do the right things with staffing, customer service, and ride operations you're going to have a happier bunch of folks inside the park since they perceive it as being less crowded. "Happier" guests (theoretically) will spend more $$ so in effect you're squeezing more $$ out of less people. I think some of the figures from last season were an early indicator of this.

But, if you are requiring the people that are already there to stay in the park to eat, you damn well better be able to serve them something of reasonable quality in a reasonable amount of time. I think that's going to be the biggest challenge across the board.

I've never been one to leave the park to eat, even with the semi-convenient options that are close to SFGAm, the park I visit the most. I could see that line of thinking as a SP holder but I don't get it for the general public-not with the price if admission.

Chances are it's going to be a 15 minute walk to the car or a 20 or 25 minute walk to Burger King if you don't drive. I just mentioned BK since it's the closest option outside SFGAm gates. Throw in 30 minutes minimum to get food and eat and then the walk back and you've lost a minimum of an hour away from the park. To me the quality of food isn't that much different between fast food and park food. I'd rather stay in the park.

My personal gripe is that I have things related to my job I have to do when I'm traveling that require me to be able to get online during the day. I've always been able to leave the park early afternoon, check into the hotel, and do some work for a couple hours and come back. In my case this will only cost them $$ because I won't be there anymore-at all. I'll just end up taking more trips to WoF and maybe more frequent trips to HW, CP and places like that that I can leave to do my work.

Maybe that sounds selfish on my part but are there other SP holders or even GP folks that have circumstances where they leave as well?

A side note, have we absolutely seen in writing that season pass parking is going to be accepted at all SF parks? The back of my 2007 pass still says parking, if applicable is only valid at the park of purchase.

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dannerman said:

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rc-madness said:
The largest amusement company in the world follows nobody.

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You're right -- Cedar Fair doesn't follow anybody!

SFMM, SFDK, SFEG, SFOG, SFGAm, SFKK, SFNO, SFA, SFNE, SFStl, SFGAdv, SFDL, TGE, SFOT, SFFT, Wild Waves, La Ronde, SF Mexico

I count 18, but 7 were sold and 1 is not operating, bringing it down to 10, vs. Cedar Fair's 12:

Cedar Point, Geauga Lake, Valleyfair!, Worlds of Fun, Dorney Park, Michigan's Adventure, Knott's Berry Farm, King's Island, King's Dominion, Great America, Carowinds, Canada's Wonderland

(I also find it interesting that they still have the sold properties on Six Flags' website)

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Cedar Fair also manages Bonfante Gardens, so 13.

The Six Flags site lists 28 parks.

That list hasn't been updated yet it still lists them all. Plus SF counts it's Additional charge HH's as there own park even though they share GM's with the dry park

I guess it depends on how you look at it. Some will say if you have to buy 2 tickets it's 2 parks, while others say it's one big complex it's 1 park. Besides Disney and Cedar Fair call separate gates separate parks too. A quick count of the flags on Cedar Fair's site shows 19 properties, including Star Trek in Vegas.

I'd assume that the seven sold parks won't be removed from the site until the end of March, when the sale will be official.

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Brad G said:
My personal gripe is that I have things related to my job I have to do when I'm traveling that require me to be able to get online during the day. I've always been able to leave the park early afternoon, check into the hotel, and do some work for a couple hours and come back. In my case this will only cost them $$ because I won't be there anymore-at all. I'll just end up taking more trips to WoF and maybe more frequent trips to HW, CP and places like that that I can leave to do my work.

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What about if they offered Wi-Fi inside the parks and/or little shaded areas with tables and chairs you could break out a laptop/wi-fi enabled cell phone and get on the net... possibly next to / in the same area as the Wii thing? Either free, or for a small fee (or possibly bundled with some other convenience)? I'm just curious what your opinions would be on that, because that would (possibly) give you the option of doing your work-related stuff in the park, actually saving the time of walking/driving back to the hotel in the middle of the day.

But then you have to bring your laptop to/into the park.

Another professor in my department did just that at CP this past summer. Her teenaged kids wanted to go, and she had some work to do. They got there early, the kids went off for fun, and she got some work done at Donut Time (free WiFi). At lunchtime, she put the laptop away, had lunch with the kids, and spent the rest of the day with them.

I'm sure that not many people do this, but she was pleased as punch that she had the option to be productive for part of the day.

But then you'd either have to carry it with you all day long (won't be leaving that on a ride platform or in a locker) or pay to re-enter the park when you take it back to your car, under this possible proposed potential policy.

Why not a locker? I leave my laptop in similar places all the time.