Shanghai Disneyland will close in effort to contain coronavirus

Well, I think (deliberate?) ignorance and deliberate misinformation are probably more the cause. I still have people saying this is just like the flu and the the death counts and case counts are manufactured. I have no idea how to have a discussion with that point of view. I normally wouldn't care except, as said above, it's somehow led to avoidance of a super easy and somewhat effective preventative measure.

Yep. You have both ends of the spectrum. The "it's the flu I'm not afraid and not going to be a sheep" side and the "I went to the store this morning and saw 4 people without masks. How dare the stores be open" side. Fauci, who I trust more than anyone in this, doesn't agree with either extreme, yet nobody will just listen and make some minor sacrifices.

Jeff said:

Narcissism and selfishness are the thing.

It's the American way!

Here’s the thing with masks, though. We’ve been told the following:

1) The only people who should wear masks other than medical professionals are the people who have the virus. Everyone else should not wear masks.

2) Everyone should wear masks so as not to spread the virus. It won’t prevent you from getting it, but you won’t be as likely to transmit it.

3) Masks suddenly help protect you from getting the virus!

Also, the second wave was inevitable...but now, thanks to masks, it isn’t?

As I’ve said before, conclusions change in science, but when the story keeps changing like this, I think it’s a bit unfair to call people narcissistic. You can’t change the story multiple times and expect to maintain complete trust in your recommendations. I’m all for trusting the experts, but we’ve seen just about every variation on the necessity and impact of masks since this started. Given the impact of the decisions being made by people who have changed the story multiple times, no matter how valid the reasons for doing so, I’d think there should be a degree of understanding for why some people are just saying, “Enough of this nonsense.”

Mind you, I think a mask is a small price to pay to wrap this up, but it’s incredibly annoying at the end of an 8-hour shift with glasses fogging over.

I’m not saying I agree that shirking masks is the right thing to do, but I can understand why people are skeptical.

I think it's fair to call people narcissistic. You've seen the Internet prior to March, right?

I’m not doubting that narcissism is present. Heck, two minutes on social media would remove all doubt, haha. I’m just saying I wouldn’t use it as a blanket criticism of everyone who shirks a mask.

There are certainly other boxes we could shove people into:

1) That pesky lack of knowledge of how science works. Because there have been different recommendations coming in a relatively short amount of time, many people think those making the recommendations don't know what they're doing. So many are picking the recommendation that is the "most comfortable", which would be, of course, no mask. It fits the reality one wishes existed.

2) They're narcissistic

3) They're apathetic, which, in my view, makes them an asshole

4) Or my personal favorite, all of the above, which means one is an ignorant, narcissistic asshole.

But, you don't lose hope. Those ignorant, narcissistic a-holes could grow up to be president someday.

On a non-sarcastic note, if we had a leader that had an ability to appropriately communicate with the masses, or at least have the ability to hire capable communicators and let them do the communicating (without undermining them), we would be a lot better off than we are right now. This is precisely what Dewine (Ohio) has done correctly from the get-go. Of course, his communicator was both praised and raked over the coals, but a true leader knows how to dictate responsibility to people and let them do their jobs.

And I find it just a bit ironic that this was always the goal/challenge of the players The Apprentice. (I actually loved watching the celebrity versions of that show). Spoiler Alert: Brett Michaels was really good at dictating responsibility.

I enjoyed Celebrity Apprentice as well. Clearly he was always a bigoted buffoon, but what's so noticeable is how articulate his speech was when you go back and watch a clip of that show from even just 5-6 years ago. He can finish thoughts and sentences.

On another note, I originally came here to share this

Petition to bring back Geauga Lake...err...delay the opening of Disneyland

He can finish thoughts and sentences.

Writers and editing.

Yeah, anyone can read lines. My kid did a radio stab for my radio show talking about "trickle down economics." 😂 (Plug: Latest show available now!)

I know some you/us think Nate Silver and FiveThirtyEight can go to hell, but here's an interesting article I was reading that explicitly mentioned the locus of control.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-hard-truth-of-poker-and-li...ood-cards/

That was very well written; important to point out that it's important to learn (and I believe anyone can learn) to be aware of our cognitive biases and inner monologue. That voice in our head that pushes/pulls us in different directions.

Unless, of course, you lose control of your inner monologue due to the unfreezing process.

No doubt I am "due" to win a Ticket of a Lifetime from Cedar Point. Going 1-17 ($20.20 ticket) has to mean something. :)

Disneyland union wants to push back the reopening.

https://www.facebook.com/UniteHereLocal11/photos/a.126921610658388/...=3&theater

I'm coming back to this thread for the sake of continuity. This is something that was touched on in the discussion early on and now the CDC is confirming those suspicions (although not at the level of some of the earlier "studies" we shared).

Actual Coronavirus Infections Vastly Undercounted, C.D.C. Data Shows

If the infection rate is actually 10 times higher, then they mortality rate is 1/10th what we believe. That's encouraging.

I still stand by my age/compromised based ideas from before. We're seeing a surge right now...of cases. I'm really interested on seeing how the death count (that sounds so morbid, but it's true) plays out in the next few weeks. I think we might be surprised - if it's a lot of young people then that should also move the mortality rate downward.

I dunno. Not looking for pushback. Just wanted to share. I really believe it's a positive thing.

With that said, my family is expected to get on an airplane and move our kid into the dorms with a couple of thousand other students...in Miami, Florida...in 6 weeks...just as airline announce they'll be filling planes to capacity again staring in July. I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with the idea.

Lord Gonchar said:

Not looking for pushback.

Do you know where you are? :)

That said, I agree with all of your points. If the infection number goes up exponentially but the death rate is what it is, I see that as a positive.

And I also agree that for all of the normalcy my life has returned to (full work weeks, going to Universal, eating in restaurants, visiting friends) I can't say I'm rushing to get on an airplane, nor would I be rushing to go to move in weekend at any college or university.

I don't really understand how the likely infection rate makes the situation better. It doesn't mean that there are fewer dead people, or that we all go back to licking door knobs. Where mitigation has failed, calling it a public health crisis doesn't quite cover it. It's pretty serious.

So far, I know three people who had it and recovered. One was in ICU for about a week, the other two stayed home, but did so alone and were sick for four weeks. I certainly don't want that. The emerging data that immunity is widely varied is not encouraging.

Colleges are interesting right now. On the one hand, they need to plan (and students/families need to plan as well). But a lot can (and likely will) change in 6-8 weeks. Same is true with k-12 and particularly k through say 5 where parents will need to make child care decisions if school is not in full session in person.

Some people are taking a somewhat cynical view of college plans saying they are telling people they will have in person classes (to make people enroll/pay tuition) with expectation that remote classes will be required a couple of weeks in. Or to preserve athletic seasons.

To that end, someone forwarded this to me over the weekend:

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/a-message-from-your-universitys...l-thinking

Jeff said:

I don't really understand how the likely infection rate makes the situation better.

It's no secret that we have very different philosophies in approaching this whole thing.

I get what you're saying, but surely we all understand that lower mortality rates mean better outcomes. I dunno. I would think any information that leads to a reduced risk is a positive turn.

It doesn't mean that there are fewer dead people, or that we all go back to licking door knobs.

Some of us never stopped.

I don't know what to tell you. 125,000 dead out of 25,000,000 is a wholly better scenario that 125,000 dead out of 2,500,000. To simply shrug off new information that reduces the mortality rate by a factor of 10 feels a little like moving the goalposts...again.

Sometimes it feels like bad news is always bad and good news is always irrelevant. Just take the win for once. At what point are we allowed to be positive?

When there's a widely available vaccine. There is no return to "normal" until then.