Shanghai Disneyland will close in effort to contain coronavirus

They're cancelling stuff here in Florida, too. With the upward trend in hospitalizations, that doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Teachers can't teach when a third of them and a third of the kids are out sick.

And I'm glad you think we're no worse for the wear. But the impact was very real. As I've said, I had to delay routine medical diagnostics. My neighbor got stitches sitting on a counter in the lobby of the ER because it's the only flat surface where they could do it. We briefly had our morgue trucks. A nurse friend of mine is still in therapy for what he's seen the last two years. But tell me again how it's a red or blue issue. (And if you want to keep score that way, the red states continue to have more death.)

I’m a little confused about what you are arguing/debating…

You originally said…

What are these restrictions you speak of? Because as I go out into the world, I don't really see any.

Now you are saying that the are canceling stuff in Florida too. Cancelations are actually worse than “restrictions.”

With the upward trend in hospitalizations, that doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

And this quote is where we disagree. And I’m fine with disagreement…but there is another side to the constant restrictions/cancelations… This is what I said earlier…

I’d remind you that :”restrictions” have a societal cost too.

I think canceling all of last year’s basketball season was wrong…and that was before vaccines became a big deal. I think canceling a basketball game tonight for high school kids because 2 VACCINATED players on his team tested positive…and NEITHER is showing symptoms is BEYOND INSANE! 16-17 year old vaccinated and healthy athletes in the day and age of Omicron are AGAIN being denied doing what they love.

My son is a borderline D2 level basketball player who has dedicated 14 straight years of his life to a game he loves and lives for… And the “shut it down” crowd is STILL interfering with his life.

And I’m not prone to make this about me and my kids…but you asked… “So what can’t you do right now?”

My kid can’t be a kid. He can’t get his junior year back and he probably won’t get his senior year back either. My oldest lost his senior year of football LAST year.

Now I know people have lost their lives to this virus…and my heart aches for those people and their families. But the idea that me, or any of the other millions of parents who are OVER the non-pharmaceutical restrictions are somehow “selfish”…in the day and age of vaccines and Omicron…

I call BULL**** on that line of accusation…

It is a red/blue issue precisely because in almost every (every?) red area tonight their kids are playing basketball. Red kids aren’t subject to weekly Covid testing. And red kids are certainly not getting their activities canceled due to a lack of symptoms…but positive test!

In my opinion…and opinions are what we’re discussing here… The red state’s measured response to current realities on the ground are infinitely better than what we suffer on the other side of the blue wall…where those in power continue to RESTRICT and CANCEL for a RELATIVE risk approaching ZERO!

And make no mistake about it… The relative risk for 16-17 year old healthy athletes from Covid is so low as to be laughable.

As for the vaccinated coaches, referees,etc. who might come in contact with the healthy 16-17 year old athletes…the relative risk from driving to the gym is way more dangerous than their chances of catching and dying from Omicron…

A perpetual state of hypochondria is no way to set public policy. But that is EXACTLY what is happening in Nevada THIS HOUR… There is no reasonable math/data to justify screwing these kids over AGAIN…just so some overly-scared adults can FEEL safer…

But elections have consequences… And you can be darn sure MY OPINION is that “red versus blue” MATTERS… Because I’m living through it! My kids are paying the price for it!

I’ve no doubt that had we moved to Florida…my kid would have played his junior season of basketball. He would have certainly played tonight, etc…

And this is in no ways an endorsement of Republicans…I hate them too. They are just vastly superior on the freedom (cue the national anthem) thing…

I didn't read any of your post when it got to all caps, but by stuff, I meant school. I can still go to the bar for the stranger humping, if I'm into that.

I don't think you understand that a lot of things being cancelled aren't restrictions. You can't fly planes, for example, without fight and ground crews. Broadway cancellations aren't for health, it's because cast and crew are out sick.

You can still “stranger-hump” in Vegas too. You just have to wear your mask in the casino…unless you’re smoking. You know… ”cause the science…”

One of my favorite recent things was a Jordan Klepper video where he talks to anti-vaxxers. They were all screaming about how they can’t be sure what’s in those vaccinations and of how they refuse to put something strange into their bodies because it could be harmful. Every single one of them was holding a cigarette in either their hands or mouths.

The Klepper videos are so on point and so well done every time.

Jeff said:

I can still go to the bar for the stranger humping, if I'm into that.

But enough about the Disney College Program.

Aamilj said:

You can still “stranger-hump” in Vegas too. You just have to wear your mask in the casino…unless you’re smoking. You know… ”cause the science…”

Sounds kind of like security theater, to protect us from the terrorists, we look for explosives, guns, and every other thing we can find, in reaction to a group who took over airplanes with fear and box cutters. TSA was a temporary response to a problem that quite frankly didn’t exist, and here we are 20 years later. If you think this pandemic is bad, you better hope another one doesn’t come along because everyone is going to fight to be through the crazy door first.

Maybe it’s an American thing, I don’t know, but I would have just armed the pilot and copilot and authorized them to use deadly force if needed to subdue a hijacker. Simple, elegant, cheap, and zero intrusion on the lives of everyday people.

You do realize that the reason the 9/11 hijackers had to use box cutters and pocket knives was because security had been doing a pretty bang up job of keeping other weapons out for several years, right? Airline security wasn’t something that suddenly emerged in 2001.

And I’m not sure how non intrusive firing a gun is in the tight quarters of a pressurized airplane.

I'm genuinely curious what the "I'm done with the pandemic" folks predict would happen societally if we removed restrictions because I'm curious if we just tolerate risk differently or if we actually anticipate a different risk.

Would we see a noticeable increase in deaths? Among unvaccinated/vaccinated/kids under 5/old people etc.? Would we see hospitals exceed capacity? Would we see long term lasting effects? Would health care workers burnout and quit? Would normal life saving hospital treatments become unavailable? Or would none of these things happen? Or does it not matter?

To some extent, the benefits are obvious: jobs, economy (maybe not the same as 2019, but at least closer to "normal"), basketball games, travel, kids actually being able to stay in school, mental health. Are there non-obvious benefits?

bigboy said:

You do realize that the reason the 9/11 hijackers had to use box cutters and pocket knives was because security had been doing a pretty bang up job of keeping other weapons out for several years, right? Airline security wasn’t something that suddenly emerged in 2001.

And I’m not sure how non intrusive firing a gun is in the tight quarters of a pressurized airplane.

If they were doing such a good job why all the enhanced crap? TSA misses things quite often, and besides if traveling with a child there are rather large loopholes in which to smuggle contraband aboard, so again, security theater.

As far as intrusive, depends on the trajectory of the bullet, a few holes in the skin aren’t causing any concerns, but a passenger or a window might be a tad more disruptive. You could always carry a cattle prod and electrocute the dirtbags. Less chance of collateral damage.

It seems far more likely to me that some accidental terrible thing will happen than that a terrorist attack will actually be prevented.

ApolloAndy said:

I'm genuinely curious what the "I'm done with the pandemic" folks predict would happen societally if we removed restrictions because I'm curious if we just tolerate risk differently or if we actually anticipate a different risk.

I don't know if I'm a "done with the pandemic folk", but what if we did?

And what restrictions are you talking about, exactly?

I don't notice any restrictions at all in my life, whatsoever. Living in Ohio.

I'd say right now in Ohio most of our restrictions are being self-imposed by businesses with a few exceptions.

I don’t know. Whatever the “I’m done with pandemic” folks don’t like. Cancelled basketball games? Public or private mask mandates? Kids being sent home from school?

Righteous entitled outrage < Rip Ride Rocket

But if you are sitting in a wheel seat it's closer than it should be

BrettV said:

The Klepper videos are so on point and so well done every time.

Jeff said:

I can still go to the bar for the stranger humping, if I'm into that.

But enough about the Disney College Program.

As a WDWCP alum...I nearly spit out my coffee reading this. So accurate.

I'm genuinely curious what the "I'm done with the pandemic" folks predict would happen societally if we removed restrictions because I'm curious if we just tolerate risk differently or if we actually anticipate a different risk.

I take issue with the default assumption that any of the non-pharmaceuticals worked. Instead, I'd argue that "pragmatically" speaking...all evidence suggests they did NOTHING...except make life a lot more miserable than it otherwise needed to be.

It isn’t like we don’t have 2 years of data and observations to see that most (all?) “restrictions” our “experts” have recommended (besides vaccines) have made nary a dent in outcomes. Anyone can see that Sweden is no worse than Austria…etc. We can see New York City, LA County, et al…fared no better than Bismarck.

*I’m well aware of the island nation outliers FYI… I’m talking apples to apples.

**I'm also aware we could weld people in their homes like China did initially, etc... All my opinions are based on the realistic expectation of what American citizens might realistically tolerate.

All that said…I am not even sure what specific "restrictions" you are talking about. But I'll address some off the top of my head...in the spirit of discussion.

If we got rid of (my favorite) the "mask up between sips" restriction...not a damn thing would change...except our leaders wouldn’t seem so stupid…

If we got rid of the "vaccine passports" to eat in a restaurant or see a concert...not a damn thing would change. *And if we took New York's restrictions at face value (I don't)...you could make an argument that things would get better.

If we quit canceling our kids' schools and sports...our kids' would have better mental health, be better prepared for their futures, and society's general wellbeing would be a lot better.

If we quit masking kids in school...our kids would learn better since facial expressions (non-verbals) are valuable to the learning process.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of one actual benefit the non-pharmaceutical restrictions have provided these last two years...practically speaking. It isn't like the places with the most restrictions have fared any better than those without...to any eye-opening extent. The Northeast has its overcrowding hospital cycles as much as Florida...for one glaring example...

If you have an example of a non-pharmaceutical intervention/restriction that you think worked...I'd be willing to give an opinion on those too... But as someone who reads the mask studies, compares different government approaches (i.e., Florida vs. New York), etc... I can't think of a single pragmatic (keyword) "restriction" that worked...at least to any statistically significant measure.

Aamilj said:
I take issue with the default assumption that any of the non-pharmaceuticals worked. Instead, I'd argue that "pragmatically" speaking...all evidence suggests they did NOTHING...except make life a lot more miserable than it otherwise needed to be.

That's a pretty ridiculous argument when we have an entire planet of varied outcomes tied mostly to how they reacted. I mean, if you have to asterisk your argument, you don't have an argument.

Americans did the bare minimum. We're doing the bare minimum now, and the economic result in some ways is worse than it was when people were playing along, when a service economy isn't working as intended because half of it is out sick.

I don't understand this talk of "mask between sips" restrictions and vaccine passports. Is it really like that in other States? Here in WV, at the restaurants, I wear a mask until I sit down and take it off until I get up. I bought concert tickets to see Korn "my favorite band" and had to check a box that I understand the COVID risk, but they do not need to see my vaccine card. The only time I've ever had to show my card is to the pharmacist when I get vaccinated.

I didn't realize other areas of the country were so oppressive.

I'm sorry about the kid you know who committed suicide because he or she couldn't play sports. Do you think maybe not being able to do sports was not the only reason though? Is it possible that the kid would have been suicidal even if this we weren't in the middle of a pandemic?

It's a balance. We have to keep as many people from dying as we can, and we have to keep our lives as normal as possible so we don't go crazy or something.