Shanghai Disneyland will close in effort to contain coronavirus

but I’d suggest that the burden of proof is on the side advocating for more death.

On the surface this seems logical. But I again can’t just automatically agree.

There is always an acceptable amount of death in living. We don’t just stop driving vehicles, even though we know driving increases the chances of dying.

We simply cannot protect ALL the elderly and compromised from viral infection anymore than we can prevent automobile accidents.

People need to live. Broadway performers need to perform. Athletes need to athlete. Restaurant owners need customers… All the nuances that make living worthwhile need to go on.

Suicides are going up for a reason. I’d suggest that is because those who’ve been on the side of “we must protect everyone indefinitely and forever” have had too much influence in policy decisions. Now living SUCKS for too many depressed people!

In my opinion…the side continuously advocating for further restrictions (N95’s on kids now, etc) shares an equal “burden of proof” in the debate.

Also, the 1500 people and sharply rising that are still dying everyday, suggest the “just like flu” comparison is not accurate)

It is accurate “for the overwhelming majority of vaccinated citizens” as stated.

I realize that 1500 a day sounds big and scary. And believe me…I hope they find a treatment and even better vaccine to reduce that number.

But we also need to have some reason and nuance when looking at who those 1500 per day are. How many are unvaccinated? How many are already over the average lifespan in the United States already? All loss of life is tragic. But we are not talking about a virus that is taking out the young, middle-aged, and healthy at any alarming level (TO ME).

We’re really just arguing about an “exit ramp.” Gonch and I got off this circular bypass 10,000 miles back. A lot of people are still on it…presumably yearning for ZERO Covid.

As a vaccinated person, I don’t need ZERO Covid to enjoy life anymore.

I will take a moment to note that those policy deciders who literally offer NO OFF-RAMP disgust me. How many deaths/hospitalizations per capita might it take before you stop demanding I restrict my kids’ breathing? ZERO Covid is never happing. Give us a “reasonable” number so all of us can get off the bypass…

I respect if you are still scared and on that circular highway. That is your choice to make. But there are millions of us who are done. We got the vaccines. We’ve seen the damage your policies have done to our kids (virtual school et al)…and we’re simply over it.

I realize that may sound extreme to some who live in a different bubble than I do. But I can assure you that in my bubble…I’m a moderate voice of reason.

I agree with you overall, and especially if the vast majority (say, 80%+) of the 1500 are unvaccinated, then sure, I'm probably pretty close to the off ramp (though if some extremely virulent variant develops then there needs to be a quick on ramp, something that we've collectively struggled with).

I will say that in spite of a lot of very strong arguments you make, it's hard for me to see past your critique of masks, though. But we've already danced that dance.

Ohio has a breakthrough dashboard:

https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboards/cov...-dashboard

Since January 1, 2021, 13,992 deaths among individuals not reporting as fully vaccinated. 664 deaths among people fully vaccinated.

Didn't look but presumably other states have similar disclosures?

Would be great to be able to filter that by a narrower band chronologically. I don't know anyone who was vaccinated before March. Still pretty positive news, though if those numbers are representative, even if half of those 14k deaths were people who weren't eligible to be vaccinated. It really sucks for those 664 people and their families though and if it were as easy to trace as reckless/drunk driving, I'd be in favor of allowing them to prosecute the unvaccinated people who carried it.

Anyone have any ball park on world population vaccination rates? That's the other looming question that isn't super directly related to what my county does, but lingers in the back of my mind, both because I don't want them to die and also because they may be the source of variants.

ApolloAndy said:

I'd be in favor of allowing them to prosecute the unvaccinated people who carried it.

Just when I think we're finding middle ground, you go and unleash some crazy California ****.

I think you mean Texas?

No, in Texas, you could just sue the unvaccinated for a reward.

I will say that in spite of a lot of very strong arguments you make, it's hard for me to see past your critique of masks

I wear the mask because I have to fwiw. I’m just not happy about it! 😂

A rollercoaster analogy for fun...

Pandemic health policy is like a rollercoaster design. You can't protect every person and diagnosis from viruses anymore than you can design a rollercoaster that fits all shapes and sizes of people.

Unfortunately, those too short or too large, missing a limb, etc., might not be able to ride the rollercoaster. And we accept this because we know the alternative is to build NO rollercoaster at all.

Pandemic health policy design also has to make tough choices about who it can protect and who won't enjoy the benefit. Unfortunately, the immunocompromised and elderly might not benefit from a sound health policy that helps the majority's needs. We should accept this because we know the alternative is to lock everyone in their room...which is no health policy at all...

Locked in room = No Rollercoaster

Given the limitations in design elements inherent...we can clearly see that the United States health policy...in many areas is equal to Rip Ride Rocket.

LA County Pandemic Policy < RRR

Jeff said:

No, in Texas, you could just sue the unvaccinated for a reward.

Or shoot em.

I don't actually know how serious I was about that prosecution thing because it would obviously never happen, but is it really that different from driving drunk?

Jeff said:

Back momentarily to the weirdness... Waitress just closed permanently on Broadway, not for any reason I understand. That was one of the first shows to open, and it originally ended its run before Covid. It was borderline a revival.

Is that the same “Waitress” as the movie with Keri Russell and the rollin’ with the homies guy from Clueless (aka Jubal on FBI)? I love that movie.

Same plot, but with music and lyrics by Sara Bareilles. The musical is much better than the movie, I think. When I saw it on Broadway, Shoshana Bean was "Jenna," one of the former NKOTB guys was the doctor, and Eddie Jemison (the nerdy guy in the Oceans movies) reprised the film role of "Ogie" and was impossibly great.

Watched “Don’t Look Up” tonight. It’s so great. I laughed out loud when DiCaprio’s character was asked “has this been peer reviewed?

Yes, I watched it too. Way darker than I expected. Super preachy, and I don't think critics really get the joke about Hollywood A-listers trying to influence public opinion, in a movie made by Hollywood A-listers. They're going after a world that has largely ignored climate change, but really it applies to anything staring you in the face that you deny.

ApolloAndy said:

I'd be in favor of allowing them to prosecute the unvaccinated people who carried it.

Jeff said:

No, in Texas, you could just sue the unvaccinated for a reward.

Seriously, though. Has that precedent been set? If Texas can do that for abortion, in a liberal state you can't outlaw guns, but they could pass a similar law to penalize gun owners. Left/right politics don't matter, that law is a slippery slope.

I’m pretty sure Newson (CA Gov) proposed something along those lines. I don’t knoe if he was serious or just “see where this gets you” but it was about gun ownership.

Just popping in here on behalf of Mariah and Soulja to wish all of my fellow Coasterbuzzers a Merry Christmas.

COVID-positive Vermonters with no symptoms clog up ERs

Some Vermonters who are able to find antigen tests and then test positive are clogging up emergency rooms.

The emergency department at the Rutland Regional Medical Center has been overwhelmed with asymptomatic folks.

This could be the next worry once all these antigen tests reach people in their homes after the holidays. There is a not insignificant portion of society who have Covid paralysis. They aren’t going to act rationally in response to symptoms, or in this case lack thereof.

I hypothesize the free availability of quick tests will lead to greater hospital overcrowding… You can’t just tell people “no big deal”…”go see your primary care doctor”… It’s been two years of “sky is falling” headlines…

Another anecdote that obviously means we should all just not take it seriously, right? I mean, the 1,300 people a day that are dying, my local ICU's filling up again, no big deal, right?

In Vermont they are filling up with asymptomatic according to the local NBC affiliate and those hospital doctors they show on that video. It appears in this case…people taking it “too serious” are a concern.

Seems to me a healthy balance of concern and reason at a level less than Vermont would be most productive.