Shanghai Disneyland will close in effort to contain coronavirus

Aamilj said:

“Omicron is somehow magically different in sneaking through tiny holes?”

This isn't magic at all. It's a matter of science. The article itself detailed viral loads and how Omicron infections will shed 30x (I think, I can't look it up right now) more particles. This seems perfectly consistent and perfectly reasonable.

Edit: Upon looking it up, the research is that omicron grows 70x faster in a human respiratory tract compared to delta.

Lord Gonchar said:

It is incredibly frustrating to see a few of you constantly talk down anyone that falls short of your standards of good citizenry. Which is exactly why so many people dropped out of the conversation. Those of us still around taking up more moderate stances are just gluttons for punishment at this point, I guess.

That's completely fair, and I don't think you're wrong. The disconnect is that I believe basic human respect, which in this case is playing along and getting vaccinated, is a pretty low bar for "good citizenry," and the lack thereof is why we're still dealing with this bull****.

The article itself detailed viral loads and how Omicron infections will shed 30x (I think, I can't look it up right now) more particles. This seems perfectly consistent and perfectly reasonable.

The Tweet I saw didn’t have a linked article. It said exactly what I posted.

Did the article say the virion size changed? That would make sense… If the particle sizes are the same…seems like a reach.

I would never advocate ANYBODY wearing an uncomfortable N-95 to prevent “head-cold-like” symptoms. The reported reduction in symptoms of Omicron should hopefully move more people to the “oh well” group…assuming the now almost month-long reports out of South Africa hold true.

All that said…at least the science behind N-95’s has some teeth. In the hospital, around covid, N95 or powered masks are all that are worn. For whatever reason they’ve regularly told the public that cloth masks were sufficient.

It is also true that a substantial number of health care workers fail their initial N95 fit test, and the proportion of school aged children who will wear one correctly for eight hours a day approaches zero.

The cynic in me thinks NPR and their “experts” know that MANY mask wearers are finally about to get COVID (we all are) & their faith in the mask’s efficacy will wane. They need an excuse… Cue the N-95’s. This is pure opinion and speculation on my part…

That sounds awfully close to a conspiracy theory. Why is it so hard to believe that masks work when worn properly and given the increase in viral shedding for omicron, more protection is needed?

Our positions are probably actually closer than they appear (in rearview mirror?). So far, most of what we know about Omicron does not warrant the closing of "everything" in the places that are doing so, given that most cases seem to be mild at worst. I live in the Bay where we've been very strict forever and we haven't had much impact from Omicron so far. But I also have grandparents in their 80's who are boostered and I pastor a church full of 80 year olds who have been boostered and I'm going to be pissed if some unvaccinated person gives it to any one of them and they get sick.

CDC reduces isolation time for healthcare workers who have Covid from 10 days to 7.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/587199-a...vid-19-can

Can shorten further if there are staffing shortages which right now pretty much means you can shorten the 7 days further.

I know some will "poo-poo" this because it comes from the NFL, but according to their data players with no symptoms are not spreading the virus.

Sorry for the interruption.

Jeff said:

"...I believe basic human respect, which in this case is playing along and getting vaccinated, is a pretty low bar for "good citizenry," and the lack thereof is why we're still dealing with this bull****."

You're not wrong, and I would wager that you and Gonch agree on this point. But Gonch is not wrong in his idea that there is a significant segment of our population that is not going to budge. When that segment of the population absolutely has zero trust in public health, the CDC, the government in general, science, or any combination of the above, you are really putting energy into the wrong place by trying to convince them to get vaccinated. Even Trump got booed when he said he got the booster in a room full of people who masturbate to reruns of The Apprentice.

Good luck convincing them.

There’s a movie on Netflix called “Don’t Look Up” starring Leonardo DiCaprio and Jennifer Lawrence… It’s about an asteroid barreling through space on a collision course with Earth, but what it’s REALLY about is How the astronomers who discovered the comet can’t get people on board that the world is about to be F-ed because nobody believes the science of what’s about to happen.

Sound familiar?

ApolloAndy said:

I think there's a very good argument that at some point the impact is low enough and the number of affected is low enough that "oh well" is an appropriate response, and I'm sure Carlin or Chapelle or whoever would have a great time making that argument, but I don't know if I have seen you acknowledge that.

And if we agree that that point exists, I think it's much more subjective to determine where and whether we've hit it (not demonstrably right or wrong).

I feel like this is exactly what I've been trying to say (perhaps not clearly enough?).

But maybe also sprinkling in a dose of "who" rather than just "what" - at this point those most affected are those doing the least. So while the "what" or impact may be at a certain level (and I'm ok with it - especially with Omicron), it's more about who this affects. And we're all being forced to make concessions out of concern for people that aren't returning the sentiment...and have no intentions on doing so.

If I'm reasonably sure I'm fine (FAR beyond any point of concern) so I'm ready (six months ago) to quit protecting the unwilling minority and get my life back to normal. And let me just clarify that I don't begrudge those people on that decision - good for you, I feel better getting a shot. But with that said I won't and haven't worn a mask anywhere that I don't have to. So I'm making decisions too. We all are.

Also, my third Pfizer stab is hitting me harder than numbers one and two did. My entire armpit is uncomfortable and tender and the injection point feels like I got slugged. Nothing like this with the first couple.

As you have said, for those that can get vaxed and chose not to, “I got two words for yaaaa!!!” <insert DX GIF>

But regardles of whether that’s most of the people being protected by our regulations, there are other people who are vulnerable not by choice. Is there a good reason to believe mitigation won’t help them as well? You’ve made a good case that we can’t help the people who don’t want help, but can we not help the people who do? Or are we at point “oh well” there?

I love that you're vulnerable enough to talk about your tender armpits.

I don't think we're that far from common ground either. But for context, Gonch also thinks voting doesn't matter. That's probably a contributing factor. That drives new nuts.

I want to be clear that I'm tired of conceding for mitigation required for ****wits that are Trumpy conspiracy theorists. I'm on a ship where every passenger was tested, and every crew member was tested within the week, and I still have to wear a mask indoors. I'm angry about that, because I did all the things.

Lord Gonchar said:

Also, my third Pfizer stab is hitting me harder than numbers one and two did. My entire armpit is uncomfortable and tender and the injection point feels like I got slugged. Nothing like this with the first couple.

I had my first Pfizer dose 3/11, and my second 4/1. Both times I had no more than a sore arm.

I had my booster dose late October. It kicked my ass. I had all the things. Chills, fever, tired, and the sore arm x10. Lasted about 24 hours.

ApolloAndy said:

You’ve made a good case that we can’t help the people who don’t want help, but can we not help the people who do? Or are we at point “oh well” there?

Who are you talking about, exactly?

Old people who have been boosted, immuncompromised, allergic, and the occasional healthy boosted 20y.o. who just dies of Covid for whatever reason.

Edit: Also people in other countries who do not have access to vaccines.

Back momentarily to the weirdness... Waitress just closed permanently on Broadway, not for any reason I understand. That was one of the first shows to open, and it originally ended its run before Covid. It was borderline a revival.

It was a limited engagement scheduled to close Jan 9, so I get why they're folding now. It's hard to believe anyone other than the biggest crowd-pleasers are making money on Broadway now - I'm seeing a lot of giveaways and half-price offers.

As for why they reopened at all - ???

It might partially be financial, but they also had an outbreak among the cast and crew, which isn't good considering that they're all fully vaccinated.

That sounds awfully close to a conspiracy theory.

I agree. So does the Wuhan Lab. 😂

Why is it so hard to believe that masks work when worn properly and given the increase in viral shedding for omicron, more protection is needed?

Because all studies prior to Covid showed cloth masks were useless for viruses. The science “conveniently” changed AFTER Covid came along…right when politicians needed ANYTHING to show the public they were “doing something.” Even during Covid there have been some (not all) studies STILL showing cloth masks are worthless.

Now we have a new variant that apparently sneaks past the rna vaccine protection. The vaccinated and masked are catching this thing as easily as the unvaccinated (see NFL, Symphony of the Seas, Cornell, et al).

And once again the politicians need ANYTHING to show the public they are DOING SOMETHING…

Now the science is conveniently changing AFTER omicron came along…

I appreciate that not everyone is as skeptical as me. But when I look at the evolution of masking in this country…😳

So far, most of what we know about Omicron does not warrant the closing of "everything" in the places that are doing so, given that most cases seem to be mild at worst.

Based on what we currently know about Omicron…there is no justification to close anything, or do anything. Yet we have a “not insignificant” portion of society ready to put N-95’s on kids now…

Also, my third Pfizer stab is hitting me harder

In a pandemic of competing anecdotes… The first 2 Pfizer’s knocked me on my ass for 24 hours. This 3rd one… I had a sore arm for 2 days… Who knows…?

But regardles of whether that’s most of the people being protected by our regulations, there are other people who are vulnerable not by choice. Is there a good reason to believe mitigation won’t help them as well? You’ve made a good case that we can’t help the people who don’t want help, but can we not help the people who do? Or are we at point “oh well” there?

Now that vaccines have made this the “flu” for the overwhelming majority of vaccinated citizens… I’m willing to accept the same precautions we did to protect the elderly and compromised pre-pandamec. If that fits the definition of “oh well”…it wouldn’t be the first time someone thought I was too harsh.

The thing is… A functioning health response needs a mix of “medical advice” and “policy concern.” In my opinion we are so far out of balance. We panic at every health concern (see NPR recommending N-95 masks for a variant that gives common cold symptoms)…and don’t give two ****s about how this overreaction affects real people (See Broadway actresses and actors who won’t see jobs come back for years…if ever)…

I’d reverse the premise and ask you when it is time to quit saying “oh well” every time someone loses a job, goes into deeper depression, masks up another first-grader, etc…?

I think there’s an interesting and broad discussion to be had and there are definitely arguments to be made, no matter how gruesome, but I’d suggest that the burden of proof is on the side advocating for more death.

(Also, the 1500 people and sharply rising that are still dying everyday, suggest the “just like flu” comparison is not accurate)

Are the death statistics granular enough to know what the breakdown is for unvaccinated versus vaccinated?

Fair point. The site I normally visit doesn’t, so if anyone has that data, it’s certainly relevant.