Shanghai Disneyland will close in effort to contain coronavirus

In fact the number is probably *slightly* higher because people who know they are likely to suffer an adverse reaction are less likely to voluntarily take the vaccine, and therefore will neither suffer nor report adverse events. That’s no different than me not buying a diet cola. But again... it is a small number of people in a large population.
Actually, 1:91,000 feels like it should be more than I expected...

—Dave Althoff, Jr.

ApolloAndy said:

I honestly have no idea what portion of people can’t get a vaccine though. Anyone have numbers or charts?

It's about 11 cases per million and all cases recovered. So, really, not that many people are actually allergic.

In my mind there was always some medical reason beyond allergies that people cannot get the vaccine. But I don't know what that medical reason is. Is there some other medical condition that would prohibit someone from getting the shot?

Here's what the CDC has to say. Still no idea exactly how many people this encompasses, but these are some of the reasons.

This says about 10 million people are ummunocompromised in US.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article240962946....text=There's%20an%20estimated%2010%20million,and%20how%20to%20stay%20safe.

This says about 5-8% of US are autoimmune compromised.

https://nationalstemcellfoundation.org/glossary/autoimmune-disease/...opulation.

This says that about 3-6k people per year develop GBS. Sounds like its more an issue of vaccines causing problem. Not clear at this point if any of the Covid vaccines do. Article below also indicates that for most people the issue is temporary.

This says about 40,000 people are affecting by Bell's Palsy per year. Odds are 1 in 65 over a lifetime.

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/gbs_qa.htm#:~:text=Each%20y...nd%20rate.

http://www.neurocntr.com/bells-palsy.php

Pregnant/nursing women were on the list but at this point its viewed as being safe for both.

For some of the issues above its a matter of no clinical data on both the effectiveness and safety of the various Covid vaccines. More testing/data could show that there are no issues with either.

From what I have seen the number of people who have medical reasons for not getting a Covid vaccine are dwarfed by the number of people don't WANT to get a vaccine.

Please don't write off the effects on the young. I'm hearing more and more stories about younger people (teens) contracting the virus and having more significant effects. One of my son's friends had a very high temperature for a couple of weeks, was very lethargic and has numbness in one arm that the doctor said may last for several weeks. He has not had to go to the hospital but he has told everyone it is far and away the worst he has ever felt.

There are other kids who are expressing similar symptoms and I have no idea what variant they have...nor are we really tracking it well it would seem. In other words....keep wearing the masks and get the vaccine if you can.

And slightly related, in terms of the importance of vaccination... I just got my second and read an article about side effects, and why logically it can make you feel sick. More interesting is that the people who don't feel it may in theory be a proxy to the counts of people who were infected but asymptomatic. If that's true, it could be 20 to 40%. What a strange and sneaky virus that might do nothing at all, but on the flip side could put you in the hospital, make you sick for weeks or kill you. I think that's why we so easily and repeatedly get into the moral aspects of the pandemic and how to roll with it.

More interesting is that the people who don't feel it may in theory be a proxy to the counts of people who were infected but asymptomatic.

What does this mean?

I kind of wondered if there was a correlation between not have side effects to the vaccine and whether one would have had a mild or asymptomatic case of Covid.

But, since you can't prove a negative, there will be no way to know.

I think that may have been the point Jeff was making.

It means if the immune response symptoms to the vaccine manifests itself in a similar way to actual infection, short lived as it may be, then the non-instance of side effects may be similar to the number of people who are infected but asymptomatic. In other words, the side effect reporting says between 1 in 5 and 2 in 5 people have no side effects on the second shot. It stands to reason then, though it hasn't been researched, that between 1 in 5 and 2 in 5 people actually infected exhibit no symptoms. I wish I could find the article now, but regardless, it was a speculative theory, not based on actual data. It would certainly make sense, as the number of asymptomatic people was thought to be in that range anyway when we were testing.

I asked the pharmacist who gave me the shot why the second round would be worse, and he had a near perfect analogy. The first shot literally gives your body the blueprint to make the nasty shaped things that the body should respond to (the messenger RNA vaccines give your body instructions to make proteins with coronavirus-like spikes). Your body makes antibodies and says not on my watch, and quickly dispenses with them. On the second go around, you already have the antibodies, and as such, the response is stronger and more direct.

It also makes sense in that really the only thing that explains the wide range and severity of symptoms from viral infection is if the viral infection itself does not generate any symptoms; that the illness we see from infection is in fact the immune response to the infection...and because we all have different exposure to different virii which may be comparable to SARS-CoV2, we all have different immune responses to that virus.

It's just a theory, but it kind of makes sense.

I'm not sure if the minor PND/laryngitis I've had for the last few days is a case of the Pflu (some people have reported a runny nose after pfive days), or if I have had no side effects after one dose and this is something else.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

From what I have seen, younger people are more likely to have reactions to vaccines. They are also more likely to have asymptomatic cases of Covid. If the reactions are a proxy for asymptomatic cases, wouldn't the young be more likely to have no reactions to the vaccine or older people be more likely to have asymptomatic cases?

And men have been more likely to have more severe outcomes in terms of having Covid but women have had more side effects with the vaccines (and that is true for women in general in terms of having more side effects but also better results with respect to vaccines generally).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7405769/

https://www.verywellhealth.com/study-women-have-more-pronounced-cov...en-5116362

I mostly only know people over 40, and they've all had a tough go of 24 hours after the second shot. Well, I also don't know many people younger because they haven't been able to get it yet.

If 35 is young for this scientific study I'll keep you all updated this weekend. I have dose two on Pfriday

I have had both doses of Pfizer. Except for a sore arm, no other side effects. Age 60.

Colleges are starting to require vaccinations for the fall semester. This is not surprising. I think dorms might be worse than cruise ships in terms of spreading stuff. I don't remember what I had to prove in terms of vaccination in 1991, but I know I did.

I’m 66 and my second dose of Moderna came and went without a hitch. Except what I lied about because I wanted a nap.

Only about 25 percent of people ages 50 to 64 and 4 percent of those ages 65 to 74 who received the Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine between Dec. 14 and Jan. 13 experienced side effects, according to CDC data. Meanwhile, 65 percent of those under 50 reported a reaction.

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/coronav...fects.html

As for anecdotes, daugther and several friends (all early 20s working in healthcare) each had several side effects with second dose. Wife and coworkers at local school (40s and 50s) mild headaches with second dose. Dad and inlaws (each in 80s) no reactions at all.

There is a lot of uncertainty in terms of who has side effects and who doesn't (for any vaccine) but in terms of age, understanding is that it has less to do with the vaccine and more to do with the immunity system of the given person. Immunity systems become less effective as we age.

DeWine announced last week that Ohio was partnering with Ohio colleges/universities to offer Johnson vaccine to college students. Thought is more of a challenge to have kids come back for second dose with school ending for the summer.

That AARP thing isn't differentiating between first and second doses though, which the CDC says may have more intense side effects. I have noticed that there is some disparity about how they're categorizing side effects though, because if you include fatigue, that puts the percentage pretty high.

Here is an AARP article that mentions second dose reactions:

That said, the responses to the COVID-19 vaccines are highly variable. Some people don't experience any symptoms, while others have mild-to-moderate side effects, and some get more severe symptoms, experts say. Interestingly, younger adults tend to experience more intense symptoms after the second dose than older adults do. “The immune response is more robust if you're young and healthy,” says Wilbur Chen, M.D., a professor of medicine at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. “I've seen health care workers in their 20s and 30s who think they're bulletproof be surprised by their response to the vaccine. I'm aware of these reactions because I have to go into lengthy counseling about these reactions.” Chen, who is in his 50s, says he experienced fatigue and body aches after his second dose of the Pfizer vaccine. His message: “A reaction means it's working — your body is responding to the vaccine.”

By contrast, older adults tend to have a milder response because “their immune systems are not responding as vigorously as a young person's, but they still get 95 percent protection from the virus,” Schaffner says. Aside from age, experts don't know why some people have more intense reactions than others do.

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2021/second-...fects.html

I agree that certain of the side effects are subjective. Some people may not notice side effects that others may knock others off their feet. Some people may lie about side effects or at least exaggerate them. And others want to hide them.

Both my wife and I had the Pfizer vaccine. I was a week behind her. It's been four weeks since my second dose. We both had a sore arm after both shots. I had a slight headache and went to bed early the next day after the second dose. She had a reaction after her second dose and had a sinus headache for a little more than a week.

Its just the difference of how the vaccine effects people.