Shanghai Disneyland will close in effort to contain coronavirus

Using "other people don't have integrity" and "humans in general don't have integrity" and "people don't say what they're thinking" and "there are some people paying for priority for organ transplants" as justifications for "I don't have to have integrity" is, to me, absurd. All I see is four things I can't control (the third of which is mostly unrelated to the subject at hand) and one thing I can control and you better believe I'm going to make the right decision with the one I can control.

C.S. Lewis is famous for saying "integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching." Integrity comes from the same root as integer and integral, meaning wholeness. To have integrity is to be a whole person and not split between different personas or facades. I don't do it because I care what other people think (though admittedly that is a difficult impulse to resist). I do it because I've spent too much time being two-faced and living a double life and it sucks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm impeccable. I routinely abuse the hell out of the Disney Fast Pass system (I moderate a Facebook group on how to do so) and there's a lot of cognitive dissonance about how I claim to have integrity while essentially lying to get more Fast Passes...but that's not a matter of life and death and vaccine access literally, undeniably is in the most clear and obvious form.

That's just your shadow self, Andy; perfectly healthy to let out that naughty little boy from time to time.

I tested positive for Covid last week, so that means I guess I went from the back of the line to getting ejected from the queue? Anyway, I'll too sell you my spot.

Oh wow! So how's that been going?

So, with various leaders and even some of the so called experts violating their own recommendations and guidelines, what are we really supposed to believe about all this anyway. Follow the science...listen to the experts...follow the guidelines...unless you happen to be a Governor (Newsome, Whitmer, Justice, and on and on) or one of the leading WH experts (Birx and Fauci).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/12/20/dr-birx-accuse...48f87a11df

ApolloAndy said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm impeccable. I routinely abuse the hell out of the Disney Fast Pass system (I moderate a Facebook group on how to do so) and there's a lot of cognitive dissonance about how I claim to have integrity while essentially lying to get more Fast Passes...but that's not a matter of life and death and vaccine access literally, undeniably is in the most clear and obvious form.

So there is an integrity slider?

extremecoasterdad said:

So, with various leaders and even some of the so called experts violating their own recommendations and guidelines, what are we really supposed to believe about all this anyway. Follow the science...listen to the experts...follow the guidelines...unless you happen to be...

Sounds like it's pretty easy then to be "better" than those people, right? See Andy's point above about the thing you can control versus "everybody's doin' it."

Lord Gonchar said:

Oh wow! So how's that been going?

Ok, so far. Thank you for asking. Day 5 since the test was run. Day 3 of knowing, I have it. It’s a weird state of mind. I think I am asymptomatic, or very minor symptoms. I can’t tell how much of it is psychological. I’m not going to say more or hedge any bet until it hopefully clears. Then I’ll maybe write a deeper dive.

Shades said:

So there is an integrity slider?

I wouldn't say that, especially not in the this case. Not everything is black and white, but what I do WRT FastPass is clearly wrong. It involves lying and occasionally having my kids feign being too scared to ride something. I "don't hurt anyone" (I suppose I impose upon each person after me in line that day 0.1 seconds of waiting), but I'm taking something that I am not entitled to through deception. I actually waste a non-trivial amount of mental energy trying to reconcile what I believe with what I do. I'd almost certainly be a happier person if I just stuck to the rules. But for some reason, I just don't.

To me the bottom line is, even when we know what the right thing is and even when we really believe we'd be happier for doing it, we don't always do it because the quick and easy path is very seductive. That doesn't make it any less wrong.

(I went through this exact same cognitive dissonance with music piracy before I got a steady income and stopped caring as much about new music).

Jeff said:

Sounds like it's pretty easy then to be "better" than those people, right? See Andy's point above about the thing you can control versus "everybody's doin' it."

It certainly is, yes, but stunts like the ones pulled by Governor Newsom and Dr. Birx are why the experts have credibility issues. “Trust the experts” only goes as far as the experts following through on their own recommendations.

I personally don’t have a problem with Dr. Birx spending time with family. I’m just saying that it shouldn’t be a mystery as to why this country has trust issues with experts. If you’re going to make recommendations that lead to life-altering decisions, you’d better go the distance too.

What did Governor Newsom do? As resident of CA I feel like this is something I should know.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/california-governor-party-v...s-74203050

Wow. I didn't know that, but it dovetails perfectly into what I was saying.

Should Newsom have gone to the party? No. Did it undermine what he was saying? Yes. Does it make what he was saying before wrong? No. Does anyone actually live perfectly within their own value system? I would venture to say no. Does that mean there are no values or that values are totally subjective? No. Will I ask another rhetorical question? No.

I wouldn’t say values don’t exist, I would say they are subjective. Different groups, religions, and cultures interpret things differently and place different weight on different values.

I think the majority of things operate on a risk/reward slider. Would I sell a vaccine for 25k to skip a line, sure. Would I sell that same vaccine if it would cost me my job, certainly not.

No different with the governor partying, he felt the risk was worth the reward. It makes his message muddy and clouded. But muddy and clouded is perfect for government messages anyway. All of them seem to be muddy and clouded lately.

Analyzing things on a purely risk/reward basis seems awfully selfish and could not actually sustain a functioning society/religion/philosophy. As much as there might be differences, almost to a t, some form of the golden rule exists within every society, religion, and philosophy.

If I have control over who gets the place in line I'm not going to sell places in line or move people ahead for money that deprives somebody of something that they were entitled to for my gain. Now if I was entitled to a spot in line myself and someone wanted to pay me for my individual spot and me go to the back of the line I have no problem considering that deal. It wouldn't affect anyone but me and the person taking my spot. We trade places I get money everyone else stays in the same place in line. Nobody loses anything they were entitled to except me and I do so willingly and for compensation.

...and you're not really out anything because you just get back in line again. You lose *your* slot, but you still get *a* slot.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Here is someone in favor of the ultra-rich and influential skipping vaccine line:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/12/22/let-the-ultra-rich-and-influent...ar-me-out/

He would take a tiered approach with bottom tier being $25k. Higher tiers are a lot more expensive. Though ultimately, we can get to the same place in terms of financing with taxes.

That is certainly a fascinating take and one that may well be worth considering (save the obvious political fallout).

As for selling your own individual spot, I'm not convinced that it's strictly neutral for other people. I mean, from one perspective it obviously is, but the reason you're given that spot in the first place is because of your risk factors. It's not your spot in the same way that your car is your car. It's given to you by society at large in order to save your life. If you're not interested in saving your own life, you don't have to, but everyone else should move up a spot as opposed to you getting $25k.

Jeff said:

extremecoasterdad said:

So, with various leaders and even some of the so called experts violating their own recommendations and guidelines, what are we really supposed to believe about all this anyway. Follow the science...listen to the experts...follow the guidelines...unless you happen to be...

Sounds like it's pretty easy then to be "better" than those people, right? See Andy's point above about the thing you can control versus "everybody's doin' it."

Or I can remain skeptical that all is what it seems.