Shanghai Disneyland will close in effort to contain coronavirus

No worries. Stanford has said "they're sorry".

Some people have resources, and some don't.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/12/18/94...AsM4M4mc3Y

Let’s be honest here. If we were controlling the vaccine and had a few people come to us and say here’s 25k if you get me setup today, who would take it?

I would, most probably would, however when this happens en masse then the vaccine supply dwindles.

I absolutely would not, even once. I know it's easy to say because I don't "need" $25k and it might be a different story if someone had donated it conditionally beforehand to expedite the research, but retroactively? Not a chance. And I don't know how anyone could do so and still look themselves in the mirror.

Button, Button

I would hesitate before saying "most would". So far you're 0-2.

Hell no.

There is a matter of integrity, ethics, and morality. Fortunately the vast majority of those in charge of the vaccine have these attributes. And anyone admitting they don't is not a good look.

Most people will engage in some form of IM when around others. If you could do it and no one would know, then would you? It’s easy to say no because the situation isn’t in front of you, and because you don’t want to look bad as just mentioned above. Also, if you look at behavioral studies people are less ethical and moral when not watched over or when they have no chance of being caught.

People are an interesting breed, we are all animals deep down, self preservation is one of our core drives. We modify and cover up our true feelings and thoughts and typically have different behaviors based on the groups we are around. Wouldn’t it be easier if we just spoke what was our true thoughts and feelings and let it all end up however it ends up?

TheMillenniumRider said:

Wouldn’t it be easier if we just spoke what was our true thoughts and feelings and let it all end up however it ends up?

If your idea of the perfect society is Twitter, then sure.

So it’s interesting you bring that up. I myself don’t have the energy to post whatever on the Twitter. But there are all kinds of crazy things posted there, so now you have to ask yourself. Are those thoughts and ideas just posted to egg on the crowd, or are those the raw unfiltered unabridged thoughts of the masses? I lean more towards number 2 myself.

If Twitter and Facebook and whatever other platform houses people’s real thoughts because they can hide behind their keyboards, then what really are we as a society? A huge lie? We act fake in public because we are too afraid to show our raw thoughts and emotions? Just because we don’t show them doesn’t mean they aren’t there. We can smile and act one way yet truly feel totally different.

I wouldn’t say it’s a perfect society by any stretch, but it might just be a more unfiltered version of society, so what exactly does that mean? Are the majority of people we interact with having the same Twitter like thoughts as we are talking to them? Possibly? Would you rather the filtered fake version, or the truth?

So, I’m sorry if you hate me cause I would take the 25k. I could certainly use it toward some good. If I had a million in the bank than that position might very well change, but I don’t. Maslow’s hierarchy of needs at work.

TheMillenniumRider said:

Most people will engage in some form of IM when around others. If you could do it and no one would know, then would you? It’s easy to say no because the situation isn’t in front of you, and because you don’t want to look bad as just mentioned above. Also, if you look at behavioral studies people are less ethical and moral when not watched over or when they have no chance of being caught.

I think you have a very good point. People tend to have a higher opinion of themselves than reality likely would show. It's part of the reason Trump outperformed polling in 2016 and 2020. There was a stigma about vocally supporting him. I'd like to say that I wouldn't take the $25k to let someone skip the line but I wouldn't know for sure how I would react unless I was in the situation. I'm sure there is a dollar amount that would turn me to a definite yes.

Anecdote ahead:
The CDC announced today who should received vaccinations in the next round. Among the groups include grocery store employees. My brother-in-law owns and operates a local fruit market. His wife told him today that he should put her (and her mother) on the payroll so they can skip the line. Neither of them have any underlying conditions that would give them priority.

You can’t “kind of” have integrity. Either you have it or you don’t. If you would take $25k to let someone cut the line then you don’t have integrity.

Ok, I have to ask, what about fastpass? ;)

Joking aside, I can think of umpteen different line skipping for payment systems in place.

Are you joking?
If I thought fast lane would make a difference in whether someone lived to the end of the month or not then I’d put it in the same ethical category. Instead, it involves amusement rides, which these days seem so far away from anything important...

How about this instead?

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-oct-24-me-organ24-stor...?_amp=true

Another example of those with more resources having more options. People skip the line at the amusement park sure, but they also skip the line at the airport, when trying to get into college, when trying to get organ transplants, when trying to get a vaccination, and many more. If something is in high demand everyone is trying to skip the line, some can afford it more than others. Those are typically the ones who win out.

you can debate right vs. wrong and we already beat values and morals to death a few pages back. But that doesn’t change it from happening.

Values and morals are definitely taking a beating on this page of the thread.

"You can debate right vs wrong ... but that doesn't change it from happening" is just about the worst justification for behavior imaginable. It literally justifies engaging in any form of human depravity. ("We are all animals deep down" isn't much better.)

The fact that this is news suggests that many people at least believe the idea of selling vaccine priority to the wealthy is appalling. Whether you think the mass of people would take the opportunity to sell that priority, if given the chance, provides some insight into your view of your fellow man, I guess. I like to think that I would not. That might reflect only my fortunate situation in life; maybe I'm just a hypocrite along with many others. I tend to think if you don't begin by believing you'll do the right thing, you don't really have a prayer of actually doing the right thing.

You know what I did "for fun" tonight? Went back and read the first few pages of this thread up until about March 15.

We were all so young and naïve.

We all have too much intergrity and sense of right or wrong to be paid off for a spot at the front of the line, but a few pages ago were wondering if we were chubby enough to jump in next to the chronically ill and compromised.

Me? I'll haul my fat ass to the front of the line then sell you my spot for $25k.

I have to ask. Is bending the rules to skip ahead and sell your spot in line ethically different from outright selling access to the front of the line?

In my situation I don't believe I would accept the $25k in either scenario. I make a comfortable living and don't have any excessive medical bills. I'm in the next group to get vaccinated. I also haven't personally known anyone that has died of Covid. If any of those variables changed I don't know if decision would be different. I'd like to think not, but I don't really know for sure.

Lord Gonchar said:

Me? I'll haul my fat ass to the front of the line then sell you my spot for $25k.

Crap - I have been telling people I would do it for $500. Looks like I have been leaving a lot of money on the table.

I am now pondering the feasibility and ethics of re-selling fastpasses on a per-ride basis. I imagine it wouldn't take too long before the park caught on and bounced me.

That was a huge problem at Disney. "Tour guides" with disabilities essentially selling their accessibility.