SF St. Louis - Anything going on??
Also remember long queues serve two purposes. One is to cover capacity on long days, the other is to provide time while walking the queue to help wait times on the lines. The Boss' queue is alot like Dueling Dragons in that on slow days the lines are not near as long. So, but the time you walk the long queue to the station, its fairly empty. Its gives the ops time to run the trains efficiently so the lines really never get long at all.
What if the Boss' and Dueling Dragons queue was short and 150 people make a mad dash for it at the same time???The line would instantly be long if the queue was short and the line would stay that way the entire day causing people not even to bother with it.
My only beef with the Freeze queue is open the whole damn thing up! If they opened it up, people wouldn't be queuing outside in the 90 degree heat. There is tons of unused queue inside where there is air conditioning. I remember the first couple years it was open and the it was great waiting in line in the cool air.. Now, Its unbearable on hot days. It also wouldnt hurt for them to start running trains before the late afternoon to help ease those lines outside. But hey, I guess that is pushing the envelope :)
Swoosh said:
Did you ever stop and think that you went on a bad day? Every park is allowed to have one every now and then.
Certainly parks have their bad days. However, much of what I stated absolutely could *not* be because of a bad day. The maintenance is an on-going problem. Trees do not become uprooted and replanted within one "bad day." The layout and path width does not change. Flat rides don't get taken out overnight. Queues are not rerouted within a day. You see where I'm going with this. Trash, employees, and crowds can certainly vary, but the major complaints I had do not.
Swoosh said:
Not to mention that they have an entire waterpark included in the admission - darn them for giving you things to do.
Actually, I was completely unaware the waterpark was included with admission. And while this does make me feel a bit better about what the park has to offer, I do not think waterslides are a replacement for flats in any park. For an amusement park its size, SFStL is still severely lacking in the rides department.
Swoosh said:
Now I will admit that there are some confusing paths, but every path leads to somewhere. Did you bring the map they gave you into the park or did you leave it in the car? If you left it in the car then it's your own fault.
No, I did not leave the map in the car. I always bring a park map with me on my first visit to a park, but it did not help me from getting lost in SFStL's many dead ends. Sure, there's no path that just leads to nowhere and deadends in a field somewhere, but there are paths that just deadend where I do not want to be (near the Tidal Wave, all over Gateway to the West, etc).
Swoosh said:
I'm not sure where you are talking about there not being any trees between Boss and Mr Freeze. There are tons!
Ah, you misunderstood what I said. If you stand in the Boss queue and look straight over to Mr. Freeze you'll see what I'm talking about - just a huge open field (and gravel pit/maintenance area) with not a single tree. Certainly the route walking there is much nicer (in fact, I commented on the gorgeous landscaping of the central areas of the park several times) but some trees around the Boss queue and Mr. Freeze would be much more pleasant.
Swoosh said:
As for the trash, depending on what day you were there depends on how many grounds keepers they have. Personally I have never seen the park trashy. This is afterall the "cleaniest Six Flags park" - they continually win the award year after year.
This probably factors into the "bad day" thing. Even if the park was free of trash, though, I can't help but think it still *looks* trashy with the boneyard and maintenance areas so exposed. That's a huge gripe of mine about any park, and yeah, it is mostly a personal thing, but I don't need to see the park's spare rides/parts laying around all over.
Swoosh said:
Obviously you have a lot to learn about queues. There a whole lot of queues out there that are worse than these. I will give you the fact that Batman and Boss's queues go on forever, but remember on the weekends these are completely full so easy cut backs are not needed most of the time. On Mr Freeze there is one where you can re-ride. You come out the exit and then there is a gate that allows you back into line.
Which rides out there have worse queues than the rides I named? I've been on many coasters in many parks and I can't really think of many.
I understand that, on busy days, the queues fill up and the switchbacks are needed. That's no excuse to keep them like this during slower days. No other park I've been to does this, or prevents people from cutting through at places to make their walk to the ride shorter. Mr. Freeze absolutely did *not* have a cut-through gate when I was there - it was solid fence from the other side of Thunder River to the indoor portion (and I'm talking the 6' high chainlink fence). I didn't even see any possible place to cut through, but if there was one it was definitely blocked off.
Swoosh said:
Sorry if the themeing wasn't up to your standards - remember this isn't Disney or Universal. Also how hot was it on the day you went - if the people aren't pumping the fluids - it's there own fault if they pass out.
When, exactly, did I gripe about theming? I didn't expect a Disney or Universal themed environment. As for the Screamin' Eagle queue, yes it was hot that day, but that's no excuse for it to be 100+ degrees in that queue because it allows for absolutely no airflow.
Swoosh said:
First go to SFMM, SFAW, and even Cedar Point and see how stupid people can get and THEN come back to SFStL. I think you will see that they are quite normal here. Another thing to remember, SFStL is the teen hangout during the summer - in essence, it's like the mall. Sorry, get over it.
I've been to both SFMM and Cedar Point (many times). I've did not have a problem with the people at either of those two parks. It was not the teenagers in the park I had a problem with (actually, I didn't see many). The crowd just seemed overall more stupid than at any other park. I certainly was not the only one to think this.
Swoosh said:
If you don't like the food, pack a lunch. However I know a lot more about those health code violations than most people do. I swear I will never eat here again after working in foods/retail during Halloweekends for a year.
You've got to try the food before finding out you don't like it. Since you have no interest in eating there either, then you know my gripes about the food are certainly valid. One shouldn't have to pack a lunch to avoid getting sick from park food when there are many restaurants in the park. My complaints here are obviously justified.
Swoosh said:
In all honesty it sounds like you were out to hate the park from square one. But honestly if you hate the park so much, stay home -- that will mean one less person in front of me on the rides.
I addressed most of this above. I wanted to like SFStL, and still do feel that it has a lot of potential. Mr. Freeze was great and B:TR is always a good ride. I just think there's a lot the park has to work on. You'll also notice that I said above that I probably would not be visiting the park again. That's true - I'm not someone who lives nearby and goes there all the time, yet still complains about it nonstop. I love my homepark. And, in the future, I'll choose to spend my money at parks I enjoy myself at. Let me know when SFStL fixes some of their issues and I'll think about returning.
-Nate (who will be spending the extra SRM day at SFKK this year instead of STStL)
*** This post was edited by coasterdude318 on 12/5/2002. ***
Its gives the ops time to run the trains efficiently so the lines really never get long at all.
That makes no sense. By that logic a ride with a three hour wait is less efficient than one with no wait. It doesn't matter if I walk or stand in a queue, I can't ride any sooner than when there's an empty seat on the ride. Ride ops run less efficiently when they can't fill a train and have to push down restraints and buckle belts themselves.
You must consult for Gwazi.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"Climbing as we fall, we dare to hold on to our fate, and steal away our destiny to catch ourselves with quiet grace" - The Stairs, INXS
I think slamming down a bar and buckling a belt can be somewhat faster than visually checking to see if a belt is buckled and then pulling up on the lap bar. Especially when riders dont have it done by the time the op is checking. But, most park ops spend little time doing either of these tasks anyways so it doesnt really matter.
My point was the wait time is shorter when the the queue is not full due to the length you have to traverse while heading to the station. That gives people waiting in the station time to board while you are queuing. It makes for an easy wait time since you are not standing still for long periods of time and moving only a few feet every so often. True, the queue time has nothing to do with op efficiency, but it does play a huge part in the wait time.
*** This post was edited by Chris Godsey on 12/5/2002. ***
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Wood Rules!
I think the more important question is why would 150 people want to rush the Boss queue?
Moosh
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I always tought the Boss queue was laid out the way it is for handicap reasons - a ramp can only be so steep and still be wheelchair accessible, so it has to switchback to keep the slope down. Besides, the way they have it laid out, there is no place to put "regular" metal rail switchbacks (unless they remove the go-karts or relocate the service road.)
Chris - Is there really extra indoor queue for Mr. Freeze? I've never seen it used. Also, I agree that if the wait to ride is 10 minutes, I'd rather spend that time walking past theming... but if it is a walk-on - just let me get to the ride as fast as possible!
coasterdude - Mr F. does have a walkback gate (I've used it many times). It is right across from the entrance to the building. It is a latched gate in the 6' fence... is is often closed and blocked with a trash can...
Mamoosh said:
I think the more important question is why would 150 people want to rush the Boss queue?
Because they have good taste, of course!
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'I want to be a statistic. I want to be masochistic. I want to be a clone.' - Descendents 'Suburban Home'
Chris...ever loaded on a woodie with manual belts & ratcheting lap bars? It takes much longer to get the train out if the seat is unoccupied. You must push down on the bar, and in some cases step into the car to reach the belts. Many GP have no problem with the belt, but don't seem to comprehend the lap bar. This causes the op to "staple" them, however that takes 2 seconds. Although enthusiasts hate to be stapled, it is often quicker to push the bar yourself rather than explain how to do it. (I should probably clarify, I am using the term staple broadly...the true staple designation is when you already have your bar down, but the op forcefully pushes it as far down as possible)
I will always praise retractable belts as a godsend for ride ops. Depending on the park guidelines, you might not even have to touch an empty seat. If only people would listen and watch, they would learn that you must push down/pull up to release the bar...it still kills me how many GP haven't mastered this skill.
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"NO! You CAN'T buy a free cup of water..when you can...let me know."
SFZIP: As far as I know nothing major is coming to SFSL for the 2003 season. There will be a few minor changes throughout the park(a few "empty" buildings might be demolished).
Out of curiosity which buildings will be demolished possibly, becuase there just aint that many "vaccant" buildings.
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To the person who keeps deleteing my account: This is really starting to become annyoieing.(sp?)
*** This post was edited by Bossstl on 12/5/2002. ***
The one building that I know won't be around in 2003 is near the St. Louis train station(bottom train station) and it was once an ice cream place. Know which building I am talking about? It is being destroyed because it is ready to collapse at any time.
There were a few rumors that The Hannibarrels(closed for last six years) might finally be removed, but I don't know if that will happen or not. Also, there were other rumors that McDonald's might not be back in 2003(I really hope this comes true). McDonald's located right outside the park now, don't need it in the park anymore.
*** This post was edited by SFZIP on 12/6/2002. ***
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Bob Hansen
A proud CoasterBuzz Member
"Sorry folks, park's closed. The moose out front should've told you."
*** This post was edited by SFZIP on 12/6/2002. ***
SFSTL Food service abosoultly hates Mc Donalds in the park. They are trying to get rid of them so that they can put a resturant of there own in there. An idea i heard was a nice sit down resturant.But as far as I know Mc Donalds still has the lease, so everyone look forward to haveing your soda with lids and no straws.
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To the person who keeps deleteing my account: This is really starting to become annyoieing.(sp?)
Can we kinda get back on track. I thought yal were talking about construction/if any thats going on at SFSTL am i right? I have relatives that live in St. Louis, i may get them to check, but since sfstl is soo far away from everything they might not go. I agree SFSTL is like an empty lot. They need more flat rides. Premier Parks cant savage 5-6 million dollars for a flats package or some kind of ride is just pathetic
I'm sorry...I didn't realize we had to get approval from you to talk about the food side of the park, and what they might be removing/adding. That counts as construction/capital to me.
Premier Parks no longer exists....They are Six Flags.
coasterdude318 said: You know, Swoosh, I certainly don't need you flaming me for not liking SFStL.
I don't consider constructive criticism about your post a flame - just because I tore it apart doesn't necessarily make it a flame. However to each his own.
coasterdude318 said: I stated my opinion and experience with the park, and also stated that it has *tons* of potential and pointed those out. You insinuate that, for some reason or another, I set out to hate SFStL from the beginning, which is absolutely *not* true.
Not the case at all. What it seemed like was a lot of whinning with little to no reasoning for the complaint. I showed you how they were taking care of "problems" that you had talked about in your post. After all this was a "what's coming to SFStL thread" and you turned it into an "I didn't like my visit there because... thread", don't expect to much sympathy.
coasterdude318 said: On the contrary, as one of the original Six Flags parks, I fully expected to really enjoy it, was extremely excited to visit, and ... I did not go there just to complain about the park. I was shocked at what I found, and extremely disappointed .... what I experience was my own fault...
Scanned my post, didn't find anywhere where I said it was your fault. Maybe you read a little too far into it OR you took a few too many things personally.
coasterdude318 said: Actually, I was completely unaware the waterpark was included with admission.
How could you not know? It's posted all over the brochures, maps, commercials, etc.
coasterdude318 said: ...but there are paths that just deadend where I do not want to be (near the Tidal Wave, all over Gateway to the West, etc).
The paths in Gateway to the West are usually home to exhibits and stuff during the festivals of the year. I'm not sure where you got lost over by Thunder River - that path is pretty much self explanatory.
coasterdude318 said: Ah, you misunderstood what I said. If you stand in the Boss queue and look straight over to Mr. Freeze you'll see what I'm talking about - just a huge open field (and gravel pit/maintenance area) with not a single tree. Certainly the route walking there is much nicer (in fact, I commented on the gorgeous landscaping of the central areas of the park several times) but some trees around the Boss queue and Mr. Freeze would be much more pleasant.
Where are they going to put those trees? In the holding pond for Thunder River? In the way of Dragon's Wing? They can't put anymore trees around Boss's queue than what there already is - The raceway is there and trees obstruct the view of the attendants working it. I see what you are saying but you also have to think in 3D.
coasterdude318 said: This probably factors into the "bad day" thing. Even if the park was free of trash, though, I can't help but think it still *looks* trashy with the boneyard and maintenance areas so exposed. That's a huge gripe of mine about any park, and yeah, it is mostly a personal thing, but I don't need to see the park's spare rides/parts laying around all over
Of course if you look hard enough you will see them. The only place you can see the boneyard is from the Eagle lift - that is if you are looking for it as oppossed to looking at the ride itself..
coasterdude318 said: Which rides out there have worse queues than the rides I named? I've been on many coasters in many parks and I can't really think of many.
Batman: the Escape - SFAW, Joker's Revenge - SFFT, Great White - SWSA, Collossus - SFMM, Top Gun - PKI, etc.
coasterdude318 said: No other park I've been to does this, or prevents people from cutting through at places to make their walk to the ride shorter. Mr. Freeze absolutely did *not* have a cut-through gate when I was there - it was solid fence from the other side of Thunder River to the indoor portion (and I'm talking the 6' high chainlink fence). I didn't even see any possible place to cut through, but if there was one it was definitely blocked off.
I can name several that do not let you - every single Cedar Fair park will not let you and almost every SF park is like that as well. As for the cut off on MrF - coming off the exit ramp immediately turn back to the queue building. There in the fence - right before you go into the building - is the gate.
coasterdude318 said: You've got to try the food before finding out you don't like it. Since you have no interest in eating there either, then you know my gripes about the food are certainly valid.
I don't eat there, because I have worked there, that's the same way when you work at a fastfood joint.
*Sigh* Can we please get back on topic now?
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SWOOSH
http://www.themeparksonline.org
(In cyberspace no one can hear you scream)
*** This post was edited by Swoosh on 12/8/2002. ***
Closed topic.
