SF: beginning of the end?

Sea World should buy SFMW.

Who said I'm not compassionate? I find the situation very sad, but it's especially sad to me when things are preventable. That's my logic. I've worked with a lot of Zydeco musicians. One of the first things I thought when I heard about the flooding is "Where are those people going to play?" Without New Orleans, those people don't have a scene. Luckily, the French Quarter was spared, but will that be the case the next time? What about the places they played that weren't in the French Quarter?

Listen, we are paying an ultimate price for our love affair with living by the water. We keep hearing "rebuild, rebuild" after these disasters, but when will it get to the point that it won't be cost effecient? Who will be able to buy flood insurance after such an event? And if you can get it, how much will you pay for it?

All the logic in the world doesn't make people any less homeless or dead.

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

I get what your saying now Nate. I think what Gator meant by potential is that the park is always thought of in terms of "potential" because of it's year round schedual, though it hasn't delivered on that potential in years. It still makes a great smoke screen in regards to share holders and so forth. You keep investing in the park because it's got to compete "year round". I don't think anyone asked any questions because up until the disaster that was 2001, SFMM was one of the top earners in the chain.

It's like the New York Mets, the team is obviously valued and worthy of major investments because it's a high market entity, even though they haven't put a winning team on the field for years. Imagine SFMM as the NYM except not only does the team stink, but stadium isn't being maintained properly, the cutomer service sucks and attendance is in slow decline. And yet, they still manage to sign Pedro Martinez and others because of the *potential* to draw big numbers. I mean what's the altenative? Especially with a company that has spent the last 5 years blaming the weather for everything and GETTING AWAY WITH IT. You don't think they're actually going to tell the shareholders the "real" reason SFMM isn't performing up to snuff... No, it's "SFMM just needs a major new investment and watch numbers go up". Apparently it's still working...

Ok so maybe the NYM aren't the best example, and I don't mean to pick on them, but I hope I made the point. *** Edited 9/18/2005 3:13:02 AM UTC by DWeaver***

Smart people don't build buildings (or amusement parks) in an area where the worst can happen.

Tell me, where exactly is a place where "the worst won't happen"?

I seem to recall a study [by National Geographic, I think] about the safest place to live in the US. They took into consideration every potential natural disaster that could and has been known to strike in an area. IIRC the safest major metro area was Phoenix due to the fact that there was no threat of hurricane, tornado, quake, or volcano there.

But LA? NYC? Miami? Chicago? St. Louis? Seattle? And all the other major metros? Not safe from the potential of a truly huge and costly disaster. Must be a lot of really dumb people in the US, eh?

And don't even get me started on the idiots in Japan, India, Italy, the Netherlands, Greece, Turkey, Iran, New Zealand, Chile, Russia....

mOOSH [yes, that was sarcasm]

*** Edited 9/18/2005 3:26:34 AM UTC by Mamoosh***

And in Phoenix, if everyone lived there, you'd have problems such as terrorism, gang violence, organized crime, and all sorts of other 'human disasters'.

But, then, there isn't a major Park in Phoenix, is there?

"Smart people" do build a seaport at the mouth of a major river.
Show a little f'ing compassion.

Jeff...seems funny you would be calling Intamin Fan out for this...?

Back on 8/30/2005 12:21:17 AM you said:

I've never been to New Orleans, but it sure seems like a strange place to build a big city. Not that these kinds of storms come along that frequently, but it seems like it's just asking for it. There are a bunch of people up here in NE Ohio that live on some relatively small rivers, get flooded yearly, and refuse to move.

Here is the link...

http://coasterbuzz.com/forum.aspx?mode=thread&TopicID=42934&page=3

This does not seem like the words of somebody who should be calling others out for lack of compassion...? I would think you would be singing Intamin Fan’s praise for echoing you sentiment. Don’t worry, I give you full credit for coming up with the “kick em while their down” statements! Intamin Fan ought to be ashamed for coming on here and repeating that which we have already heard!

Maybe you were just in a bad mood or somebody hijacked your computer or something? You have had 2 weeks to change your mind too. I guess there are lots of reasons for such apparent hypocrisy. Either way that has got to be f'ing embarrassing!

P.S. For those who were wondering...there was indeed a Fox News reference in the aforementioned link...

Has Fox News blamed the hurricane on terrorists yet?

Jeffrey [yes, that was sarcasm]...credit Moosh!

*** Edited 9/18/2005 4:15:07 AM UTC by Jeffrey R Smith***

Obviously, by Phoenix they really meant Elysburg. Just ignore all the high water level signs you see for various dates.

While few places are immune from natural disasters of some sort, there are cities and areas which are prone to one event or another. And there is (or should be) a "cost" to continue to live there. Whether it be a requirement to build in compliance with a hurricane or earthquake code, build a sturdier roof to withstand a heavy snow, purchase flood insurance, or take measures to flood proof one's home or business, it's all a cost.

I have had clients for whom I had to design floodproofing measures for their buildings, and they were next to a six foot wide stream. they were quite expensive to design and install, but the people had no choice.

So yeah, I do get ticked off when I see these people in the OBX and FL and undoubtedly now in NO be able to build exactly as before, changing only the color of paint in their houses. If they really intend to replace 200 years of construction in only 10 years or so, who's going to make sure the construction is sturdy and flood proof and hurricane resistant for the next time around?

I think there comes a point when the cost exceeds the benefit of living in certain places. Ultimately, we're the ones who pay to rebuild through higher insurance premiums and higher costs for building materials-- BTW, I've heard that wood products will probably be up 20-25% by spring. My neighbor was looking to buy a camper for himself, and he was told that prices will be going up because most of the production is being diverted to build temporary housing for emergency personnel and volunteers.

^^Wow, just....Wow!

Fate is the path of least resistance.

Not sure I can bridge the connection between SF demise and the Katrina disaster, but I’ll try to roll with it. I do think people need to show a little compassion here. To make a case for the liquidation of any park now up for sale is like inviting a hurricane to destroy a community of jobs, attractions and childhood memories. How would you like it to happen in your neck of the woods? What is truly amazing is some have not even been to the parks now deemed unnecessary or a loss cause.

Well, I have been to SFMM and it is surrounded by desert. If anything the park is an oasis and there is nothing that can bring greater value to that area than Magic Mountain. I’m no fan of Six Flags, but that doesn’t mean I want half of California’s roller coasters destroyed. Without the Mountain I doubt Knotts would have a reason build coasters like they have. I for one would like to see one of the few thrill parks in the West stick around. In the mean time I’ll hope those of you with Six Flags parks in your neighborhoods don’t see a demolition crews anytime soon. Instead, keeping an eye on the target of better managment we can all agree would be a good thing, if that keeps our parks safe.

Anyone else want to make a case for liquidating a park? Please specify if this is your local park or someone elses.

Not sure I can bridge the connection between SF demise and the Katrina disaster, but I’ll try to roll with it. I do think people need to show a little compassion here. To make a case for the liquidation of any park now up for sale is like inviting a hurricane to destroy a community of jobs, attractions and childhood memories. How would you like it to happen in your neck of the woods? What is truly amazing is some have not even been to the parks now deemed unnecessary or a loss cause.

Well, I have been to SFMM and it is surrounded by desert. If anything the park is an oasis and there is nothing that can bring greater value to that area than Magic Mountain. I’m no fan of Six Flags, but that doesn’t mean I want half of California’s roller coasters destroyed. Without the Mountain I doubt Knotts would have a reason build coasters like they have. I for one would like to see one of the few thrill parks in the West stick around. In the mean time I’ll hope those of you with Six Flags parks in your neighborhoods don’t see a demolition crews anytime soon. Instead, keeping an eye on the target of better managment we can all agree would be a good thing, if that keeps our parks safe.

Anyone else want to make a case for liquidating a park? Please specify if this is your local park or someone elses.

Don't be an ass, Smith. Read the rest of the post and don't take what I said out of context.

Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog

Sawblade5 said:
Well, I would think that Silver Dollar City/HFEC will put their heads in the game and they would buy SFFT and SFStL. If I were the HFEC I would try to grab up SFFT and make it better than it is now. As for SFStL, I have heard that HFEC might try to get this one, but it would be fitting if Busch got it.
The other parks that might also cold fall into the hands of HFEC is White Water Atlanta (repossession), White Water Okla City, and SFOG (Take over the Atlanta marker with 3 parks close).

I don't see the Herschends suddenly buying all these *amusement* parks. Six Flags isn't in the same league as SDC and Dollywood.

Besides, HFE has other projects. ;)

I would love for them to get White Water Atlanta back...

*** Edited 9/18/2005 9:30:38 PM UTC by Dukeis#1***

Well, I have been to SFMM and it is surrounded by desert. If anything the park is an oasis

What SFMM did you visit? The one here in Los Angeles is in an area where about 250,000 people call home in the Santa Clarita Valley. In fact its in the area of LA County seeing the fastest growth.

You're absolutely right about their not being many safe places to build things in the U.S.A. An article in the Perspective section (opinion) of the Baltimore Sun may have changed my mind on that (keep in mind it is a fairly liberal newspaper.).

The people who study earthquakes are predicting that one of the next big catastrophes that is well overdue is in Missourri. You see, an earthquake of a 8.0 hit that area in 1811 on Dec. 4, again six weeks later on Jan. 23 and again Feb.7. Here's some fun passages from the article:

"Vibrations from the quakes toppled chimneys hundreds of miles away, cracked sidewalks in Cleveland, rang church bells in Boston and caused the Mississippi to run backward." "In 1843 and 1895, the fault also produced serious ruptures. The latter measured 6.8, the same size as the 1995 Kobe, Japan quake, which killed 5,000 people." "Memphis is particularly exposed. Of the region's large cities, it is closest to the fault; just 36 miles from the southern tip." "Memphis is not the only vulnerable spot. Depending on where it struck, the earthquake could cause major damage in seven states: Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri and Tennessee. Only 2 or 3 percent of the region's building stock would meet a modern building code for seismic areas."

So when could this possibly happen? "Like many researchers, Arch Johnston would not be suprised if a large quake occurrred in the next 10 or 20 years. The director of CERI, Johnston has concluded that the odds of a mid-6 quake occurring in the next 15 years are 63 percent; the odds of such a quake occurring with 50 years are nine in 10."

Of couse, the whole prediction is very controversial, as one study over a small time period found the fault is moving very slowly based on steel pipes that were buried in the area and is not seen as a threat. From the end of the article though, there is hope. Memphis isn't ignoring the possibility and neither is FedEx who has a hub there. Stay tuned.

Don't be an ass, Smith. Read the rest of the post and don't take what I said out of context.

Here is the entire Jeff quote for those unable to click on the link I provided!

Has Fox News blamed the hurricane on terrorists yet?
I've never been to New Orleans, but it sure seems like a strange place to build a big city. Not that these kinds of storms come along that frequently, but it seems like it's just asking for it. There are a bunch of people up here in NE Ohio that live on some relatively small rivers, get flooded yearly, and refuse to move.
Did you see the pictures of the oil rig that slammed into a bridge? That's crazy. I haven't seen photos or video from the residential areas though, only downtown New Orleans. They're talking about tens of thousands of people not having anywhere to go, so that can't be good.

All humor aside...please take the time to explain to everybody how you words are compassionate and Intamin Fan's deserved "F-bombs" and my observations resulted in being called an "ass."

Why am I suddenly thinking of Leslie Gore? Hmmmm.

Obscure music references…at least for this time and age! I like it! :-)

Well Geez Smith, that statement was made a day after the hurricane hit when no one had any idea of the devastation that was about to follow. We didnt know that thousands of children would be lost, that thousands of people would be dead/homeless, and that Barbara Bush would make an ass of herself on National television. I don't think its fair to compare something said on Aug 29 with now.

Fate is the path of least resistance.

What Barbara Bush said says a lot about how the Bush's think and what they are really into politics for. It's not to help people, or to do a public service to the citizens of the USA, it's for power and money. My jaw dropped when I read what she said.

How could people who have just lost their jobs, homes, city, pets, friends, and family, be better off now? Ooh, running water! Wow, food.

weeks later and I still cry a little when I watch the news. I wonder if Barbara cries while watching the news on her big screen TV in one of her 10 mansions?

Sorry for being so off topic here.

EDIT-spelling error. *** Edited 9/19/2005 5:03:51 AM UTC by dexter***