Say Goodbye? Laser at DP

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eightdotthree said:

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Charles Nungester said:
However Id just rather see that you had visited a park and formed your own opinion. you might be surprised as I have several times.

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You don't have to visit a park to form your own opinion, when your opinion is that there is nothing for you to do there. You like to point out all the time that there is nothing tfor you at Cedar Point, and now Dorney Park. Good for you, for the rest of us there is plenty to do at both parks.

The difference here is that I'VE VISITED BOTH PARKS MORE THAN ONCE TO GET MY OPINION :)

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Charles Nungester said:
Chuck. done with this thread, I just think Laser is a rare and excellent coaster. Sure after the loops it's not overly special but like Shockwave at SFGAM it was forceful and unique and to me, VERY FUN vs many simular rides at different parks.

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Thats cool, not everyone agrees with you that there is nothing else to do at this park anymore. They could do a lot worse than removing an old, mediocre travelling carnival ride that is in an area of the park that needs some draw. The impulse is going to give it that, there is no other impulse in the immediate area that I know of and it will be a new experience for Dorney's crowd.

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I just hope for Dorney's sake, THE IMPULSE RUNS THERE! It was down a ton at Geauga and half of it I believe is OPERATING COST. Those lims aren't cheap to launch.

Chuck, who honestly believes thats why PKD's FOF was down for most of last year. Cost of operation

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Charles Nungester said:
The difference here is that I'VE VISITED BOTH PARKS MORE THAN ONCE TO GET MY OPINION :)

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Thats not the point. The point is I don't have to ride a motorcycle to form the opinion that I don't want to ride a motorcycle. Or that I don't have to play rugby to know that I don't want to play rugby.

Correct. But it would be wrong to form an opinion of motorcycle riding or rugby without having experienced either.

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The only thing that makes internet conversation different from face-to-face conversation is the fact that the most outspoken, sarcastic loudmouths are the wussies that wouldn't dare confront anyone with an aggressive tone in person.

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Not addressing you directly...but just for the record? I work a very, very part-time job on the side where all I do is confront people. Bunches of people at a time. People who have rehearsed in their head what they think they're gonna do before they see me. People big enough to make the floor around them shake just by waving their arms. Cuz it did.

And I rarely even do it for the money. It's FUN.

Just so ya know.

Now back to your scheduled programming...

-CO

I'm guessing you're a bouncer? ;) That's the only thing that I can think of that would be more about the fun than the money.

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I think Gonch is full of crap about half of the time, and yet I invited him to be a moderator and on the podcast.

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Only half?

All that matters is that I'm right every time. :)

disagreement != tearing people down

And 'Playa is right. It is kind of fun. I love to argue with people. It gets the brain working on something that isn't compiled and deployed.

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millrace said:
cue the reminder that Conneaut is not open to prove the superiority of your vacation choices...

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Here's the crux of your misunderstanding. It's not about the superiority of my vacation choices, or yours. It's about the viability of the business. If that lack of warm fuzzy love seems cold to you, so be it. For me at least, it's what keeps me grounded in reality so I can conduct my professional life accordingly.

Laser is leaving DP? :) *** Edited 8/16/2007 5:08:08 PM UTC by coasterguts***

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Jeff said: It's not about the superiority of my vacation choices, or yours. It's about the viability of the business. If that lack of warm fuzzy love seems cold to you, so be it. For me at least, it's what keeps me grounded in reality so I can conduct my professional life accordingly.

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What the heck are you talking about? Is it not possible to enjoy something regardless of it's viability?

How does that dive bar of an amusement park Conneaut always gets thrown into these arguments. I have many fond memories of Conneaut, but have very little desire to ever go back, and I am a coaster enthusiast. Find a new talking point.

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Jeff said:
disagreement != tearing people down

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There's a difference. But if you can't realize the difference, there's really no point to continuing to talk about that.

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Here's the crux of your misunderstanding. It's not about the superiority of my vacation choices, or yours. It's about the viability of the business. If that lack of warm fuzzy love seems cold to you, so be it. For me at least, it's what keeps me grounded in reality so I can conduct my professional life accordingly.

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I wish I knew what you were talking about because I'm trying my best to figure out the point you're trying to make. Your vacations revolve around profitable businesses, which in turn keeps you grounded so your professional life flourishes? Am I the only one that's having trouble with that statement? Or does millrace have it right?

*** Edited 8/16/2007 6:32:35 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***

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millrace said:

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Jeff said: It's not about the superiority of my vacation choices, or yours. It's about the viability of the business. If that lack of warm fuzzy love seems cold to you, so be it. For me at least, it's what keeps me grounded in reality so I can conduct my professional life accordingly.

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What the heck are you talking about? Is it not possible to enjoy something regardless of it's viability?

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I don't go to parks based on their viability to conduct business, I go there to have fun. If the parks successful or not is beyond my control. All I can do is visit and decide for myself if I had fun or not. If I do, I'll be back. If I don't or its not viable for me to do it on other factors mainly budget related then I won't.

I visit lots of parks and I do it as economically feasable as possible. I visit the North east, I'll hit parks all the way out and back. Same for the west.

But it's worth it to buy a 400 dollar plane ticket and 120 hotel rooms to visit one park?

I don't get that and for the most part, If I did things that way. Id be at the one park a year level, JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE GP.

Chuck, who says if you see fit to do so or have friends that can make such trips more economical. By ALL MEANS, HAVE FUN!

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eightdotthree said:
I have many fond memories of Conneaut, but have very little desire to ever go back, and I am a coaster enthusiast.

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I don't think you can go back eightdotthree. Apparently, and I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe Conneaut Lake is not open. ;)

Ray P.

You touch upon something pretty interesting there, Chuck. Why is there such an interest in how parks are doing?... their "viability", if you will?

Okay, I can understand why some people like to talk business. Personally, I'm not one of them, but that's because I'd rather not take my work home with me at night. To those that do enjoy talking business, have a blast! But why a park's profitability worthy of such concern? Of course a park has to make money to survive, but it seems that every price increase and every additional perk sold seems to be reason to celebrate. Why is that?

What happened to being consumers?... because that's what we all are- consumers. We pay for things with our hard-earned money and when I go to a park and see that the parking fee doubled and admission costs $10 more than it did last year, I get pretty pissed. It's not like the extra expense is going to cause me to have to walk home at night, but when I see crap like that, my response is frustration and not a series of thoughts that attempts to justify it all.

A $400 plane ticket sure is worth it iif your doing something you love to do. Every trip my girlfriend and I have taken to Disney and Universal have been more worth every penny and more to us. We have never paid $400 for a flight to Florida though...its way cheaper than that.

You guys take everything Jeff says, and turn it into exactly what you want to hear. It makes for a good read, but its getting ridiculous.

Not really. It isn't personal, it's just that he often makes no sense and we try to get it to make sense. I would do it to anyone, it's not a "Jeff thing".

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Rob Ascough said:
Okay, I can understand why some people like to talk business. Personally, I'm not one of them, but that's because I'd rather not take my work home with me at night. To those that do enjoy talking business, have a blast! But why a park's profitability worthy of such concern?

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Then why cry everytime someone does?

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Rob Ascough said:
but it seems that every price increase and every additional perk sold seems to be reason to celebrate. Why is that?

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Who is celebrating? People discuss the impact it may have on attendance, or whether they will pay that much money, but celebrate? I don't see it.

It's not that that gets me Rob, It's the CP and Dorney are viable and worth a visit and Knoebels, Kennywood and Conneaut aren't mentality.

If your all about coasters, HAVE AT IT. When you learn to apreciate parks and their differences and multitudes of things to do, Other than just coasters. Then YOU GET IT!

My return to a park has everything to do with *HOW I FEEL WHEN I LEAVE* Was it worth it? Did I have fun? DO I WANT TO GO BACK?"

It's got nothing to do if a park has one coaster or 100. I hit the big parks and the small parks and quite often, The *DID I HAVE FUN?* answer happens more often at the little guys. Hershey, I thought was da bomb, Lots of coasters, Lots of flats and except for the atmosphere of the newer section. Lots of charm and things to do. So don't say Im anti CF, SF, Paramount. I found Canadian Wonderland the same way. NO GREAT COASTER BUT PACKED WITH THINGS TO DO. I'll be back.

Chuck, who says it's up to the park to make the right combinations, pricing ect to make it successful. All I care about is if I want to go back or not. Coenneaut is one I do

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Rob A:
Of course a park has to make money to survive, but it seems that every price increase and every additional perk sold seems to be reason to celebrate. Why is that?

What happened to being consumers?... because that's what we all are- consumers. We pay for things with our hard-earned money and when I go to a park and see that the parking fee doubled and admission costs $10 more than it did last year, I get pretty pissed.

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Oooh, now we're finally getting to it. :)

I am a consumer (with an interest in the business side of the amusement industry).

As a consumer, I find more value in a higher priced/more perk filled experience than a lower priced, run-of-the-mill experience.

That is to say, yes, the idea of a $100+ admission to the park intrigues me.

It'd cut back the crowds, probably lower the in-park prices (and maybe include some 'freebies' like drinks) and I think the parks could handle things in general better if half the people were showing up (better service overall). More money for a better time.

As a consumer, I'll gladly pay premium prices for a premium experience - right now most parks offer an experience that matches their pricing (in general), but no one has really covered that 'premium' end of the spectrum. If you want an lame-to-above average experience, there are plenty of parks will to charge lame-to-above average prices for it.

The 'premium' market is mostly untapped in the amusement industry and as a consumer, it's one I'm very interested in. I'd love nothing more than to see a 'premium' amusement park market emerge.

At the very core, it's the same old Conneaut/Cedar Point thing. I get tired of hearing how Conneaut isn't a viable business and isn't worthy of being around anymore (when some people around here make their love of the place very well known), yet as soon as something bad is said about Cedar Point, people are accused of not knowing what they're talking about.

Now, excuse my while I get a tissue... all this crying is making it hard for me to see my screen.