RCT3 a Step Back?
* flaws
* buggy
* fps problems
* more bugs
* capturing video sucks (unless its Jeff's method)
* more and more bugs
* strata coaster looks like crap
* Lay down coaster peices not all of them connect right
* more and more and more bugs
* oh and did I mention bugs?
There should be a remake, bigger & better, of the first game. It was the best:
Everything felt solid, like it had mass and weight. I felt like I was looking at a mini-toy set, sort of like models of the rides I like.
...says it all. *** Edited 6/3/2005 5:53:20 PM UTC by Belgian***
You can't really expect perfect quality in the graphics since technology is limited. It can't look like a first person shooter, because the game is much more broader than that and has many more aspects to it (bigger map, many physics engine calculations going on at the same time, and thousands of AI). But for those who say RCT2 had better looking graphics than RCT3, I strongly disagree.
All these constant complaints amuse me. Especially when RCT1 or 2 are used as shining examples. Because I remember all the complaints when those were released too. It seems like people are never satisfied no matter what they get. But they do have foggy memories it seems. LOL
The perfect game doesn't exist. Then, or now. And probably not in the future either!
I think the term "better" is being misused here.
I think "preferred" is more accurate in this context. I greatly prefer the look (and feel) of the first two games.
Which is better to you? The one you prefer, of course. Many people here seem to prefer the look of the earlier games.
All these constant complaints amuse me.
As much as the constant praise for the games amuses us.
Especially when RCT1 or 2 are used as shining examples. Because I remember all the complaints when those were released too.
Complaints on one or two don't instanly mean three is automatically better. It just shows how much worse it is. 1 & 2 were far from perfect. Three is even more so.
It seems like people are never satisfied no matter what they get. LOL
Again, from the other side of the fence it seems like some people are satisfied no matter what they get.
I'm just wondering why it bothers you so much that the majority at CoasterBuzz don't have a lot of love for the game. I mean, I enjoy coaster and parks but I don't make it a point to frequent sites that have an overwhelming dislike of them and keep telling them they're wrong.
I understand it's probably the same twisted fascination of a car accident - you just have to keep looking because you can't believe it. But I know you're active with the official forums - why not stick with like minded people?
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy good debate and enjoy your POV on things. It just seems like (as much as I can get from a typed post) that sometimes you just want to scream in frustration and pull out your hair at our lack of appreciation for RCT3.
I nominate Gonch for the Understatement of the Year award.
Face it, if the game was so wonderful, then there wouldn't be such displeasure with it. I wanted more than anything else to love this game. I don't hate it, but it pales in comparison to the first two.
Lord Gonchar said:
Complaints on one or two don't instanly mean three is automatically better. It just shows how much worse it is. 1 & 2 were far from perfect. Three is even more so.Man....do you use circular logic or WHAT? Who said that complaints on 1-2 make 3 better? Now you're attempting to put words in people's mouths. And just how do complaints with 1&2 show how much worse 3 is? I don't get your jumps in logic at all. That comment makes no sense.
Again, from the other side of the fence it seems like some people are satisfied no matter what they get.Is that what you think of me? That I am happy with just anything? Clearly that is not the case. You need to go through and read all my post over the last 6 months. Also my comment had nothing to do with you or even anyone else here. I was just remembering about all the complaints with every RCT release. Seems like a lot of people are never satisfied no matter what.
I'm just wondering why it bothers you so much that the majority at CoasterBuzz don't have a lot of love for the game. I mean, I enjoy coaster and parks but I don't make it a point to frequent sites that have an overwhelming dislike of them and keep telling them they're wrong.Who said it bothers me? I could really care less if you personally hate the game. But when you use illogical reasons to hate something...well...I am a person that hates illogical reasoning. There are always good points and bad points about everything. I hate when people only pick one side and ignore the other...like some lawyer would do. Did I mention that I hate lawyers? LOL
But I know you're active with the official forums - why not stick with like minded people?So now you are trying to get rid of me? Why? You've mentioned this several times now. Why is that so important to you? Hmmmm...guess it's easier to hold on to your one sided views when someone is not there to point it out to you. I could turn it around on you and say if you dislike the game so much why do you keep going through these threads reading about it? Right? :)
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy good debate and enjoy your POV on things. It just seems like (as much as I can get from a typed post) that sometimes you just want to scream in frustration and pull out your hair at our lack of appreciation for RCT3.Actually, the only time I want to scream is when people are not OBJECTIVE and just hate for the sake of hating or complain for the sake of complaining. Really, everyone should be able to find SOMETHING they like (and dislike for that matter!) in each of the RCT games.
It's not that hard to be obective, is it?
Is that what you think of me? That I am happy with just anything? Clearly that is not the case. You need to go through and read all my post over the last 6 months.
As do you with mine and others. There was serious hype and interest in this game pre-release. Then the demo came out. The tone turned to reserved optimism. The final release came out and the disappointment followed.
One of my favorite threads around here is the Demo release thread. Read through it. I challenge you to find anyone "complaining just to complain" - it's just not there. If anything it's a bunch of people trying to find things good with the game and expressing issues they have in an attempt to gain insight from others to fix the problem.
But when you use illogical reasons to hate something...well...I am a person that hates illogical reasoning.
And those illogical reasons are? I can't speak for the others but:
- My main reason it is just feels tedious and uninteresting after a short period of time.
- In addition, I don't like the performance issues.
- I like to build one-off, themed coasters to share with others - with RCT3 I can't.
- I like scenarios and the technical side of the game, but I blew through all the scenarios with 12 days of having the game and many of the rides still have various issues that I find distracting.
- I find the themes limited in both choice and execution.
- I don't have any interest in the fireworks or custom peeps and after a brief time experimenting with both initaially after I got the game, I've yet to do it again.
- I don't like the way the game "plays" - I preferred a packed park with hundreds of peeps willing to stand in line and long, full queues and midways to the "mulling around the fair" feel I get in RCT3.
- I don't like that the coasters themselves haven't changed much beyond the last game in terms of what's possible. I feel like I've done it all before.
What I do enjoy doing with the game (assuming I have the patience to stomach my negative issues with it) is the simple creative process of laying out a park and seeing it come together.
For my interests, this game doesn't offer much. I'm not sure why that's so hard to believe without dismissing it as 'complaining just to complain'
I could really care less if you personally hate the game.
But when any discussion pops up among a group of us who aren't exactly fans of the game, you always seem to jump in to tell us we're wrong or chronic complainers or not giving the game a chance. That's fine. The forum is to express opinion, but your interest in breaking up the discussion in such a way makes it seem as if you do care...a lot.
There are always good points and bad points about everything.
I don't necessarily believe that. I certainly believe in the 'shades of grey' thing, but for shades of grey to exist, black and white must also. (consider that my philosophical mumbo jumbo for the day :) )
So now you are trying to get rid of me? Why? You've mentioned this several times now. Why is that so important to you?
You took that out of context. I immediately followed my questioning with, "Don't get me wrong, I enjoy good debate and enjoy your POV on things."
Funny approach from a guy claiming to hate people ignoring one side just to argue their own.
Hmmmm...guess it's easier to hold on to your one sided views when someone is not there to point it out to you. I could turn it around on you and say if you dislike the game so much why do you keep going through these threads reading about it? Right?
Not at all. Not even close in fact.
It's the equivalent of standing outside of two doors. Behind door one people are discussing how much they like RCT3, behind door two they're discussing how much they dislike it. As a general non-fan of the game, I tend to spend my time and make conversation with the people behind the second door. There's be no point in going through the first door. I don't agree with those people and trying to join in on the conversation would essentially be walking into a room to tell everyone they're wrong. As much as I'm entitled to do so, it seems an odd choice. I much prefer conversing with the people in the second room having issues with the game.
It's the same reason I do partake in discussion here, but rarely visit the official forums. And you'll note that Jeff, myself and a few others posted there quite a bit when the demo/game was first released. However, people there seemed happy with the game while we got increasingly frustrated with its shortcomings. Why keep going back to try to have casual conversation with people who disagree with your POV?
So let's repeat this:
I could turn it around on you and say if you dislike the game so much why do you keep going through these threads reading about it?
No, because I'm choosing to discuss with people who share my views. I'd like to toss the ball back into your court and offer the same question:
If you like the game so much why do you choose to discuss it with people who don't by continually making claims of illogical reasoning and essentially calling them 'complainers'?
I'd look like a fool if I headed over to the official forums and constantly pointed out the games flaws and told everyone their reasons for liking the game were illogical and that they were just happy with whatever they were handed.
Really, everyone should be able to find SOMETHING they like (and dislike for that matter!) in each of the RCT games. It's not that hard to be obective, is it?
Objectivity is being open minded, trying something and forming an opinion.
Objectivity is not trying to find both good and bad in something regardless of if you feel it's there.
In fact, that's just as hypocritical as complaining just to complain.
*** Edited 6/4/2005 7:03:03 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***
But when you use illogical reasons to hate something...well...I am a person that hates illogical reasoning.
Isn't it logical, though, that some people just aren't going to like the game, and you should respect their opinion, whatever reason they have for having that opinion? I respect that you like the game. I don't understand why all of the time, but I don't think you're any less for liking the game.
One thing that I hate is when someone believes that their opinion is the only way. You just simply can not understand why we won't give the game a second chance, and that we should at least try to like it. So what if we don't? I have the same rights to my opinion as you do yours, but I see less respect from you on my opinion than I'm giving you for yours. I'm glad you have yours, why must you always bash mine and the others that don't like it?
I never understand that logic (or, in this case, illogic). Why do you care why I don't like something? Why do you care that I don't like it? My opinion is mine, and mine only, and you aren't going to change it. Can't accept that? Then stop living in the dream world. When someone says they think something that I really enjoyed sux, I ask them why, state my opinion, and then move on. I don't criticize them for having a different view. I'm glad they don't like it. That means we're all still human and can think for ourselves.
Even if I didn't like the game and refused to give it a good review simply because I didn't like the way the packaging looked, or something very, very silly to you, why do you care if I don't like it or bash it constantly? If you dont' want to hear it, don't listen (or in this case, look on the boards). Why it seems to upset you so that I don't like something, or Gonch doesn't like it, for whatever reason, is, to me, silly. I don't like Pineapple because I think it is too sweet. You coming in and telling me all the good things about Pineapple and how Dole has a new hybrid that is so much better isn't going to make me want to try pineapple. Ever. So why keep trying and wasting energy? I'm entitled to my opinion, no matter how silly it is.
Further, several of you made the assertion that I must be an Atari employee. As if no one else could possibly like the game, something obviosuly not true. But it seems to be what some of you want everyone to think. In other words...to turn around what you think I am doing (which I am not BTW) "I hate this game so much that no one else could possibly like it either" ergo, they must work for the company.
Gonchar, I disagree with your definition of objectivity a bit, but to quote your definition you said it yourself, "Objectivity is being open minded, trying something and forming an opinion." Well, if that's the case then you have just proved my point..that a lot of people in this forum are not being objective as you think they are...for if they were, they would hold off opinions of Soaked until they have tried it. Which has been my whole issue all along. Hate the game, like the game, I don't really care. But at least be open minded about the future instead of spreading condemnation of something you know nothing about. If, after playing soaked you hate it (and I know some of you will...lol) then fine.
Oh...and Gonchar, I still am wanting to know how complaints about RCT1&2 proves that RCT3 is worse!! I'm still scratching my head on that one!
But I do retract my statement about your reasons being illogical now that I am reading your list. I don't agree with all the things listed, but you are entitled to your opinion.
I like scenarios
Agreed. If someone is a scenario fan and that's all they play, I can see them hating 3. I'm a sandbox person myself and forget the others play it differently, so that is my fault. 3 could be way better in this regard.
I find the themes limited in both choice and execution.
Themes could be better, but I look at it this way....this is the first 3d version. I don't think people put down the originial when it came out for lack of themes. Something that was added to over time just as it is being done with 3. Additionally, since there is no imposed limit like RCT1/2 had, the choices for theming and objects is actually more plentiful. To be sure there is stuff missing from 2 that I would like to see in 3. On the other hand, there are things in 3 that were never in one or two (especially with Soaked now) so it's 6 of one and half dozen of another to me.
As for perfomance issues..well I'm not sure why you still have any after the second patch. Have you ever contacted Frontier about them?
And the third point taken care of in soaked. :)
The last point...hmmm..not sure what could be done with the coasters. What would you like to see done here? I am curious. But that brings up a good point, and why I feel that some people are less keen on 3...they are simply bored of RCT period..maybe even all sim games. I do wonder what people would think of 3 if 1 and 2 never existed. Somehow I think they'd have a bit higher of an opinion.
Coasterbuf said:
Oh...and Gonchar, I still am wanting to know how complaints about RCT1&2 proves that RCT3 is worse!! I'm still scratching my head on that one!
Sorry, skipped that point the first time around.
I think I read your original comment incorrectly. It made sense when I wrote it, but in hindsight I'm not sure I took your comments the right way.
Okay...shall we rewind the clock a bit? These discussions, (and my point of view towards a lot of you) all stem from people putting down Soaked before ever having tried it. Etc...
Ok, I see. That's entirely valid, I suppose. But look at it more this way. It's a bunch of people who don't like the game as it is.
How can they be interested in or behind and upcharge expansion for a game they don't like?
Sadly, they're already lost as customers.
Will Soaked suck? If it's anything like the other Frontier creations (WW, TT, RCT3) then yes, it will pale in comparison to what Chris Sawyer created just as those all did.
I personally feel like I've been burned by Frontier three times - when I bought Wacky Worlds, again when I bought Time Twister and a thrid time when I handed money over for RCT3.
Why should I care about Soaked? What's my motivation for thinking this won't suck based on my past experience in dealing with Frontier and their RCT offerings? They've produced nothing for the series that has left me feeling good.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." - That sort of thing...
...except I need to add:
"Fool me thrice and I'm a moron. Fool me a fourth time and you have the right to put a bullet in my head" ;)
The last point...hmmm..not sure what could be done with the coasters. What would you like to see done here? I am curious.
Honestly? I don't know. I don't make the games, I just buy them. If there was an easy answer, we could just drop Frontier a line and all would be well.
But that brings up a good point, and why I feel that some people are less keen on 3...they are simply bored of RCT period..maybe even all sim games. I do wonder what people would think of 3 if 1 and 2 never existed. Somehow I think they'd have a bit higher of an opinion.
Yeah, I'd agree with that sort of.
I still think there's more to the core issue though. Quite simply this game plays very different than the original amusement park sim Chris Sawyer created.
If you loved 1 & 2, this game isn't necessarily going to be your thing. If you thought 1 & 2 were 'ok' and that there were still improvements to be made, then you probably like RCT3.
The difference between 1 & 2 were minor at best. A few new things. But it worked. It was enough to move the game forward. I played RCT2 just as much as RCT1 - it was the same game I loved with even more added.
However, the game has changed significantly from 2 to 3. The interface, the approach, the gameplay, the feel. It almost seems like the same game in name only.
I'd have perferred a simple port of RCT2 to a 3d environment and then built on it from there. In fact, so many people (espeically coasterbuzz users) wanted to see the game in 3D that many of us hooked up with that little program someone wrote that let you ride certain coasters in crude 3D - and ate it up.
3D has not killed the game. Time may have made it a bit weary, but to me what really killed the game are all the fundamental changes that were made at the core.
Sure, doing the same old, same old gets tired after a while, but I think you'd see a whole different level of satisfaction if the game was just RCT2 (not a bit changed) in a 3D setting.
*** Edited 6/5/2005 10:45:29 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***
Coasterbuf said:
Okay...shall we rewind the clock a bit? These discussions, (and my point of view towards a lot of you) all stem from people putting down Soaked before ever having tried it. Perhaps you guys feel that you haven't complained for the sake of complaning, but when you put down something not even released yet, and take every opportunity to slam it, that's what it comes off like.
What I was saying before, and I'm not quite sure you understood me since you've made this comment is: So what? What if we are complaining just to complain? You enjoy playing RCT3, we enjoy complaining about it. Why can't we do what makes us happy? If you don't want to hear us complain, don't read this forum.
We all have a right to be happy, and since RCT3 didn't make us happy, then complaining just might, and since we enjoy complaining, why should we stop now? We have the right to complain, you have the right to like the game, but as Gonch brought out earlier, if you're not going to change our minds, why don't you go into the room where people like the game, instead of coming into the room where we don't and telling us we shouldn't complain? We can do whatever we wish, why is it so important to you that we like the game?
Further, several of you made the assertion that I must be an Atari employee. As if no one else could possibly like the game, something obviosuly not true. But it seems to be what some of you want everyone to think. In other words...to turn around what you think I am doing (which I am not BTW) "I hate this game so much that no one else could possibly like it either" ergo, they must work for the company.
I never made that assertion, I think Brett did that first, and I'm sure he was probably just kidding. I doubt Gonch thinks you seriously work for Atari either. They were just saying that to start you up, but, just like Mick once said, once we start you up, you never stop.
No one ever said that since we don't like the game that you must be an Atari employee and getting a kick back, which is why you like it. That was all just a joke, which you must not have gotten. But on that note, I still don't understand the logic of "I like it, I don't think anything is wrong with liking it, so I think you should be required to give the expansion a chance". But, see, we're all entitled to feel however we want. If I don't want to give the expansion a chance, why are you so adamant at telling me I should?
Perhaps I do just want to complain. If it were just me, I wouldn't still be doing it here cause everyone would get sick of hearing me, but that clearly isn't the case. Which is why I still don't see the "Hey, my opinion is different, and I think you should change yours since the game hasn't come out yet" train of thought. I respect that you have a differing opinion, I just get tired of being in a conversation about how I don't like the game with others that are like minded, and here comes CoasterBuf with his "BUT...BUT...BUT...YOU HAVEN'T EVEN TRIED IT YET, SO YOU SHOULD GIVE IT A CHANCE!"
Here's a thought: I am going to buy Soaked, and more than likely the next expansion regardless. And if I still want to complain? So freakin what? I bought it, I have the right to feel the way I wish and complain about it either way!
Gonchar, thank you for your post. They are always an enjoyable read. I think I understand much more where you are coming from now and I can understand that point of view.
I admitted a long time ago that some of the things I asked for were implimented, though I don't think I'm the reason it was, but there were plenty of other problems that were left in that were bugs that could and should have been cought.
I also signed up for the Beta Test, but was not selected. I signed up the first day it was available. Perhaps they didn't want such a staunch unsupporter to beta test? I dunno. I want the game to be good, I don't just complain to complain. I actually took a very active approach at first, and a lot of good it did. Still a buggy, over priced little disk.
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