PKI to restrict some rides to Gold Pass Holders
Pointman,
Perhaps here at Coasterbuzz, more people who complained are season pass holders - heck I'd venture a guess that a majority of people on this board have SF season passes - but at the park, it was a 50-50 split between all types of visitors to the park because they were all affected evenly.
So let's take your point that season pass holders complained more about fastpass than the "perk ERT" at PKI. Well, that is deserving of a BIG "DUH!"
Let's see what would happen if this ERT was available to all patrons who would be willing to pay an additional $10 to ride that instead of only Gold Pass holders. Then the same percentage of PKI passholders would be complaining because then it is not a free "perk" only for them but something everyone has access to - for a fee.
1)You can still get in line for The Beast and Son from 10:00 AM to 7:30 PM on those Saturdays. You can still have a 'dark' night ride on one all the way until closing and most likely, if you get in line at 7:30, that coaster will be in the dark as well. So, what's the problem with this? You may not be able to have mulitiple rides on one or the other, but you can at least have one. And again, there was the rest of the day.
2) It's only for 4 days each ride!
3) Both aren't closed on the exact same nights!
4) I doubt more than a select few with stop buying their gold season passes for this. You're the ones getting the benefits! 12 hours of the entire season is all this is taking away from the rest of the general ticket holders. That's line taking one day out of the whole year. PKI is extending their season like 3 or 4 days I think over 2000.
5) Season pass holders avoid Saturdays generally I would say. PKI is using this to bring them in, I would think as well as to lower the lines earlier in the day, so they will know they can still ride later.
6) Phantom Theatre, Flight of Fear, 7th Portal, Meteor Attack, and Tomb Raider you can ride any time in the dark... or at least indoors.
7) Give PKI your "I came all the way from England to come here today, and I will never come back" speech and most likely, they'll let you ride anyways. ;)
8) Maybe they'll decide to end the ERT if the popularity for the event is fairly low.
9) Be nice and let some general ticket holders borrow your pass to go through line. :)
Is this a business decision? Yes.
Is it a smart business decision? No.
On any given day, the vast majority of customers will not be gold pass holders. Therefore the vast majority of the customers are going to feel discriminated against. There is a fact of human psychology that people feel differenlty about having something taken away from them than they do about having something extra given to someone else. Schedule ERT for season pass holders before or after reqular park hours, and everyone will be happy. Cheap out and schedule it during regular park hours and you are going to make many members of this majority of your customers very unhappy.
SFA provided ERT for season pass holders last year by letting them in an hour early with one attraction open for that hour. PKD has a season pass holder's day each year. These work fine since they are conducted outside regular park hours.
Danny,
I also agree that this thread is getting WAY out of hand. I think a lot of people are forgetting that if you have a 'standard' season pass, you can get a FREE Gold Pass upgrade until mid-May which would let you take advantage of this perk.
I also think that the park will do everything to let non-pass partrons understand the early closing of the rides. After all, they did have those large 'Son of Beast will be closed' signs sitting out in front of the park so people knew in advance. The bottom line for us is we now know in advance about it so those that were planning on going those days can either get an early evening ride on The Beast, or move on to another ride and get on with their lives.
I am also going to take a wild guess here and estimate that at least some of the people that don't agree with this choice will take advantage of the perk and show up anyway. I know of another certain perk that takes place basically every morning and you can bet that I see quite a few of the people that have bashed the park in the past taking advantage of this perk.
-Sean (who doesn't plan on doing the Gold Pass perk because he usualy doesn't go to PKI on Saturdays due to work)
PointMan:
The Point is, if I buy a new Camaro, I expect to get a Camaro that doesn't have an engine that's been manufactured with the least quality of parts. If you want to give perks to specific guests, do it outside of regular hours. Don't leave the regular peons (and their children) to stare drooling as they're barred from an attraction and only the people who paid extra for the Gold Passes can enjoy the attraction. It's one thing to let individuals pay extra to butt in line, a completely different thing to allow specific groups to enjoy the park outside of posted regular operational hours, but it's truly another to let people pay extra to even enjoy the ride at all during regular operational hours. This is a poor decision from PKI. This is the kinda decision that could make potential guests embittered against going to a Paramount park at all. No, I don't consider it blown out of proportion. It may be a free upgrade now, but it's a dangerous precendent.
*** This post was edited by coderGirl on 3/25/2002. ***
coastersrz said:
"In 2000, however, the park did close the line for Son of Beast about an hour and fifteen minutes early for three straight days un July to give Paw Print pass holders ert on Son of Beast for two hours (I got nine rides in on SoB in two hours!). I personally think that the gold pass is a move by the park to try and increase attendance and revenues, while at the same time, is a great benifit for any coaster enthusiast."
Well I can damn sure say that it's not a benefit for ANY coaster enthusiast, just those who buy the pass.
I remember vividly those 3 days in July 2000 you speak of. Why? Because I went to PKI on one of those days (it was a Monday). I do not recall seeing any announcement that the line was going to close early until I actually *got* to the line for Sonny. I personally was not pleased, but at that point, there wasnt a whole lot that could be done. I just had to make the best of the day that I had because I had no plans on returning to the Cincy area anytime soon. It sucked, really it did.
But I will give PKI *this* measure of credit, they are announcing these days *WELL* in advance, in fact, concurrent with the announcement of their official schedule. So if you are planning your days there, the information is available. If by some chance you planned your trip before the offical schedule was released, well then that is your dumbass fault. By putting this out there NOW people can make an informed decision on whether they wish to visit those days or not, instead of just being suprised after entering the gates.
BTW: The line for Sonny that day was only about 40min (aside from a breakdown).
jeremy
Jim Fisher,
If the park does what ever it can to let those that don't have a Gold Pass know before hand that a ride will be closed early, then IMO it is up to the guest to plan accordingly.
If the park puts out signs in front of the park stating, "The Beast will close early tonight" then it is fully up to the park patron to decide if they want to spend money to get inside the park, or if they will blow it off and go in anyway.
I honestly can see both sides to this debate but I have no sypathy for those that will complain to the park after being told way in advance that a certain ride will be closed early. Kind of like I won't feel sorry for those that are expecting Tomb Raider to be a coaster or simulator when in fact the park has stated many times it isn't.
-Sean
Shutup? Hmmmm.. If i'm going to a far away park that I have to drive 4 hours to, the WHOLE park had better be open. If you are going to pay money to get into a park , you want your money's worth. That means you want to ride right upto the last minute. Thank god my home park SFGRAm does not operate like that and treat THEIR customers like that! I think shutup was not the right words to use there. Poor choice of words. Very immature.
-----------------
Beer, my soon to be wife, coasters, and the FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Is this a great country or what!!
*** This post was edited by stoogemanmoe on 3/25/2002. ***
Okay, here are the reasons why I think this is a bad business decision. At the very least, I think it's enriching to have the diversity of opinions on this here. Obviously, this is a divided issue. Okay, rolling on:
1. Who spends more at the park on any given day, the GP or the GP (ha, the same acronym). Anyway, yes, sure, Gold Pass members are going to come back and spend more over the course of the season, but on any given day not only is the gate paying guess paying more, but that guest is also spending more. It's a per capita fact that it's the one time a year or one time in years visitor that will eat at the park, load up on trinkets and not be as educated as to where the park bargains and deals lie. In short, it's not a segment you want to piss off.
2. This is happening at the end of the day. Even a picture perfect day at PKI will come crashing to a halt because someone is steamed that the ride is clearly operating -- not a mechanical breakdown or an act of God at play -- and they are being selectively denied. Instead of a wrapping up a park trek by looking back kindly at the Eiffel, they'll be lining up at Guest Relations saying things that are awful.
3. Take it from Disney, who charge guests for their E-Nights but do so only after park hours. The Surprise Mornings, now disbanded, took place before the park hours.
4. Especially in April, will the passholders win? If the general public is wild about getting a night ride, the line at 7:30pm might grow so long from those who realize it's the last chance that it by the time 9pm rolls around those expecting dozens of ERT rides may be lucky to get in 2 or 3.
5. Confusion. I got a news flash here that while Jeff built an amazing site here, the vast majority of parkgoers will have no idea what is going on, won't even read the print at the front gate or park map, and will be stunned to see a ride closing down, in May 2 1/2 hours before the park does. And, trust me, there will be at least a few who see the lines close, figure the park is closing, and head on out, period. That means having dinner off-site. Bad, bad business.
I think this is one of those grand experiments in park operations like virtual queuing or preferred parking. Premium level season passes seem to be the wave of the future by offering added value perks for a slight upcharge. As much as I like the idea of night Gold Pass ERT, I think I have to agree with the vast majority that this will only transfer the lines from Sonny/Papa to Guest Relations. I'm sure that PKI will have an abundant amount of signage on those days and heck, they might even sell a few more Gold Passes (the real reason for this perk), but they'll still get a fair amount of complaints.
However, I am a Gold Pass holder and I'll gladly be in that ERT line on opening Saturday.
-----------------
Scott W. Short
mailto:scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com
And that applies regardless of the reason for closure. If it is mechanical failure, fine. If someone has rented the ride for their kid's birthday, fine. In my opinion, no park owes me anything because of the distance I've traveled.
It shocks me how many people seem to regard their ability to ride a particular ride as a right, not a privilege. We pay for the privilege of riding a ride, either as POP or PPR. In this case, PKI has decided that buying a Gold pass pays for an additional privilege. They are not denying anyone the ability to buy a Gold pass.
Another point seems to be ignored in most of the arguments on this topic: the ride is only closed for part of the day. Is that part of the day -- "the night ride" on the Beast -- so valuable that it justifies getting upset? Not in my opinion. People who travel long distances to visit the park will have the opportunity to ride the ride earlier in the day. I would hazard a guess -- and it's only a guess -- that the "night rides" are hardly known at all among non-enthusiasts who travel long distances to the park. My own family knows nothing about it, and could care less. As long as PKI posts clearly that the ride will be closing early, everyone visiting that day will have ample time to work in a ride on the Beast or SoB before it closes. This issue is a mountain made from an ant hill.
For the record, I fully support Fast Passes and the like. When I visited SFWoA last year, I went prepared to buy a FP. I chose not to because the lines were not long enough to justify the additional expense. Had they been longer, I would gladly have paid the additional money.
Jeremy
although i still feel that it is a poor business decision on pki's behalf, i don't think that it will significantly alter the experience of a member of the general public. i seriously doubt that it will even result in people hunting down the guest relations office to complain.
even though i don't think this is a smart move. i will still enjoy the ert that is offered on thursday evening at saturday morning.
stoogemanmoe,
I do agree that the 'shut-up' comment was un-called for, but I disagree with your comment about the 'whole park better be open'. Anyone expecting everything to be open for them is setting themselves up for disapointment IMO. They have to realize that things can close at any time, for any reason. This could also go for those Gold Pass holders that are expecting tons of rides for ERT. There could be a VERY large crowd for ERT and some people could only get 1 or 2 rides in.
Do I think there will be some ticked off people at the end of the night? There is a good chance of it, but if the park does their part to inform those going into the park in advance of the early closing, those guest really have no one to blame but themselves. The park isn't making them purchase a ticket to get inside nor are they making them purchase a Gold Pass. That is 100% up to the guest to decide what to do.
Without getting into a rant here, I could go on and on how Fast Lane does something similar to those that don't spend the extra cash for the special ticket, but I will try to keep this brief. Those that didn't purchase a Fast Lane have to wait longer than normal because of those that did purchase the Fast Lane. From what I have seen, there have been many complaints about how that works. That doesn't seem exactly nice to the customers that have to wait extra.
So, in looking back, Six Flags does indeed treat some of their customers in a similar way. Yes, they do keep their rides open when those with special tickets are riding, but it still ticks people off. At least, from what I have personally seen.
-Sean
Business decision: yes.
Good business decision: yes, probably an experimentation to see what they can improve and try to maximize profits.
And why do many enthusiasts try to make the image of the GP a bad one and call them stupid. I asked my brother on this:
Q: "If a park tells you in advance that Gold Pass members get the night exclusively on Beast and you are not one of those members, would you get pissed off although you were very well aware of it before you purchased one single ticket?"
A. "I don't care, the daylight is good enough."
PKI might learn something new about the general public and increase it or decrease it depending on the success of this program.
coderGirl: People have been doing it for thousands of years... classing others. Live with it, you probably do that yourself in some form.
To the rest: blah, I don't care anymore. Live with it. End of story. Life isn't unfair. Don't whine about it and don't waste your money at PKI, then, while I'll go there and enjoy the park even though I don't have a Gold. I don't have a Gold pass 'cuz I don't need one and I just need a regular one that will get me to the park OFTEN, coming back for NIGHTS.
I hope this post is the end of this thread. No need to further any arguments.
-----------------
The Jet Coaster ROARS!
Will Johansson, Webmaster of Xtreme Paramount Parks
http://xpp.coasterbuzz.com/
Yes, I was out of line and i apologize its just the fact that people annoy me. You have from 10-730 just to get in line. Night rides are still possible. Just get in the line before 730 sun is gone by 8 usually. As I sayd its not during peak months. Also the General Public who doesn't follow this stuff and walk back to the Beast after waiting till 10 and see people in line before them are going to be frustrated. Either way people are getting classed. If you don't want to go to Kings Island because of that don't go its your own fault. You know its happening plan a trip on a Sunday or weekday during the summer lines are shorter anyways
I have seen people speak about different SF PQ ( pay queue) times, but nobody has mentioned different IOA queue rules. I will be the first to admit my wife and I have enjoyed taking advantage of using the line which only on-site guests were able to use. We have done that on a few days, and we have also visited IOA once for the day and did not stay onsite. It did not bother us at all that we were watching others take advantage of the queue advantage that we had a few times in the past. Why?
Because we were there to have fun. Because you shouldn't let those kinds of things bother you. You either pay for things that you feel have the value of paying-for in life, or you adapt within your situation and still enjoy life, the day, and the situation.
C'mon people. For better or worse, there always have been and always will be individuals as well as companies willing to offer a product which some can afford, but quite possibly just as important those that want-it and those that don't. Having donated money and time to environmental issues as well as revenue generating companies/individuals, you really can do what you enjoy. This thread appears to have quite a few second-winds and could go-on and on. I must admit to posting several replies in here.
Please everybody. Enjoy life. If you feel you require more money to take advantage of other opportunities life may offer, then attempt to do so. If you feel comfortable in where you are at, great. Have fun. Don't try and sour the well for others with negative subjective thoughts with respect to your own personal negative views on parks. (This equates to you attempting to tell potential patrons the negatives they "may" encounter. This does not mean giving people tips and tricks of maximizing fun at a park)
In this case. A company is trying different marketing aspects, which will have support and secondary marketing off-shoots. This is a fact. Does anybody have to patronize this company? No. Do people have the right to moan about them? Sure they do. But why? Only they can answer that. Nobody posting here is the caretaker of the general public nor park enthusiasts. That works for both sides of this discussion. There really isn't any gray area here. If people do not feel they are getting their $2-3/hour spent for a day of entertainment, then that is their right. They will find another avenue. But the decisions and policies of PKI are just that, their decisions and policies. Some have been better than others. Some will be better than others. The Viacom subsidiary which is known as Paramount which has a company under their blanket known as Paramount Kings Island will make decisions which they feel generate the most amount of revenue and offer an enjoyable entertaining day to their customers.
Carpediem, the thing with Universal's Express Pass or Six Flags Lo-Q or Disney's FastPass is that, yes, folks are being tiered, but the ride is still open to everyone.
If PKI were to say, hey, from 7:30pm to 10pm, Gold Passholders will be able to use a shorter passholder only queue, or that trains will alternate between pass exclusive and those in the regular line, you'd still find some rumbling but no one would go storming into Guest Relations because they were denied a ride.
JetCoaster, you mentioned telling everyone in advance but how is that possible? 90% of the park guests probably won't know a thing until they have driven to the park, paid to park, and find themselves at the front gate -- and while I'm sure it will be noted prominently at the gate as a way for PKI to upsell those buying their tickets at the time to upgrade to take advantage of the night rides, but it won't stop folks from complaining.
I was at IOA two years back and, towards the end of the night, they were closing off the Jurassic Park area. Well, you can't close it, technically, but they were setting up a huge catered event. To help clear the area out, they closed the rides in that "island" early.
I'm not the complaining type, but I had lost a camera earlier in the day and -- on the way out, went back to Guest Relations (which, at the time at least, was where you went for Lost & Found) it was just guest after guest, complaining about being shorted. It was nuts. You do the pro-rated math and it's a pittance. But, trust me, all it takes is one person to scream blue murder to the point where PKI has to comp them and, before you know it, it will become a ritual for folks to hit Beast or SoB late just so they can start a show to get comped somehow. Will it still be a good decision then?
Just a thought, but since PKI is going to have to pay a staffer to check for Gold Passes -- and that's going to be as thankless a job as the gatekeeper at FastPass lines -- assuming the person is going to have the gift of the gab to soothe the rejected, why not arm the staffer with VIP front-of-the-line passes to another PKI attraction, preferrably at the other end of the park to throw the scent off?
So those who feel they were sleighted receive a taste of the upper class -- or maybe a $3-5 off voucher to upgrade to a Gold Pass. In short, turn the negative situation into a positive for both the guest as well as a way to convert and close more pass sales.
My question to some would be do you feel it incorrect that some pay for something more than others get? Interesting that the idea of "complaining for a perk" is from the mind that "class" is wrong, and the PKI business decision is wrong.
A ritual, for those trying to get something for nothing? Now that's a noble thought. This really is being taken to the Nth degree here. How many once-a-year paying customers will be there on the few Saturdays in April where there will be ONE ride for approx. ONE hour after emptying the queue. Now, in May it is still ONE ride for approx. 2 hours. Tis the way of people to be or feel slighted and then they are supposed to be owed something, whether anything has actually happened. It has become rather obvious that some people feel the supposed normal masses should somehow get some kind of "upper class" treatment because they might be able to.
I do not know the percentage of one-time single paying people on saturdays in April and May, but it is not a majority of the daily count. Let alone the number of people who got a significant discount, who had an enjoyable day, who saw notices about ride(s) not being available before they paid to enter, as well as possible signs/information in the park. This really is about some people feeling a company is somehow pulling one over on others. Coupled with others feeling some people should just be afforded advantages just because of money spent.
How about the people showing-up for a day they paid for, and they waited in-line for 2 hours for TR? How dare the park not tell them before they bought a one-day ticket that they may "have" to wait for 2 hours for the ride that will make or break their day of entertainment. Maybe they should go to guest relations and complain until they get "something".
This is one of the problems. How many people are going to jump on the bandwagon that would not have, once they find-out/see somebody is getting something for their complaining that they did not budget their time correctly to get the number of rides they wanted to due to one ride closing 60 -90 min. early. If that were the case, then why don't they read the signs telling them this is going to happen, buy their ticket, then immediately go to guest relations and complain in the hopes of getting something "extra" that can enhance their day of entertainment?
*** This post was edited by carpediem on 3/26/2002. ***
You must be logged in to post
