PKI 2009 - CoasterBuzz

^Dorney should just "re-Schmeckify" the 'Hawk.

Then again, VF's High Roller sits there massively overbraked like HP's Comet, and both of those parks got new GCIs first, so.... ;)

El Toro's airtime over the camel hills is so strong because the train is going much faster in relation to the curvature of the hills. The length of the train has virtually nothing to do with this. It's basic physics--going faster around a curve generates higher acceleration which is what causes forces and in this case "airtime".

The B&M hyper coasters do not accelerate over the tops of the hills as "fast", so the forces are not as strong.

AV Matt
Long live the Big Bad Wolf

Matt - the longer train length on Behemoth (I'd guess at least about 1.5x the size of a standard 8-car B&M train) means you get intense ejector air in the front on every single hill. It's the least B&M-like hyper they've produced...and that's a good thing!

If Dorney would actually get an Intamin pre-fab woodie like Toro, I would give sexual favors to the owners. Bwahahahahaha....not really, but I would think about it. LOL I'll probably be shunned for this, but I'm not a huge GCI fan. I mean, I love Lightning Racer, but Wildcat and the other GCI woodie that I rode (I'm not sure what I rode that was GCI besides these two...can't remember) did not impress me. And Wildcat SUCKS. If Gravity Group put a Voyage-like coaster at Dorney, I think I'd be impressed, but I haven't done a GG coaster yet, so don't know for sure. Wonder what will go up in place of the Laser. That actually surprises me that the Laser is going away because if you think about Cedar Point, they have kept all their old stuff including their old 1 and 2 loop coasters. Same with Dorney keeping SooperDooperLooper. I guess space just doesn't allow it in Dorney's case.

Still, I'll continue to root for Dorney to eventually do something fantastic with a coaster. As I said, one can dream, can't they? :)

"Look at us spinning out in the madness of a roller coaster" - Dave Matthews Band

Still, it's not as if the length of the train is the only contributing factor. B&M could just as easily build a coaster with long trains and minimal air time. Lots of people also attribute the major airtime on Avalanche to it's short trains.

^^ Shun, shun, shun . . . ;)

My author website: mgrantroberts.com

Trains don't matter as much as design. One won't get an ounce of airtime no matter how long or short the trains if the ride is poorly engineered.

Perhaps its an illusion or my faulty memory but the look and feel of Behemoth's hills seemed quite different from those on Apollo and Nitro. Perhaps they were able to tweak the curvature because of the train length, or perhaps the different shape of the hills allowed them to redesign the trains. Or perhaps there are no major differences in hill shape and its all in my head, lol.

All I can tell you about Behemoth is this: in the front car I was lifted up into the lap bar before reaching each hill's crest and held there most of the way down the next drop; in the back the lunge into the lap bar came a bit closer to the crest but the yank over the top was intense enough to have me reaching for the grab bar.

Although I have not ridden El Toro my traveling buddy Jim had. He says the ride's airtime is quite extreme...as if the ride was truly trying to throw you out. That's how Behemoth felt to me. It was quite unnerving! Having ridden Nitro, Bull, and Apollo I was shocked...I really didn't think B&M had it in them to design a ride with Intaminesque ejector air, yet that's how I would describe it.

If Mustang is half as good KI will have a real winner on their hands!

I agree, I think B&M has tweaked a lot of their "flow," so to speak, and it looks very evident when looking at straight camel backs like on Behemoth. The shapes of the hills just look different to me.

Mamoosh said:That's how Behemoth felt to me. It was quite unnerving! Having ridden Nitro, Bull, and Apollo I was shocked...I really didn't think B&M had it in them to design a ride with Intaminesque ejector air, yet that's how I would describe it.

That's *exactly* what I said upon my return from my first laps on SFoG's Goliath.

Another idea - maybe B&M had it in them all along, and parks finally asked for it?

I definitely felt some strong air on SFoG's Goliath. I wonder if B&M will ever go with a 9-car new style train.

Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."

The more you talk about Behemoth's airtime, the more I want to drive my butt all the way to Canada to ride this monster. *sigh* I'm envious of all that have gotten to ride it.

Mamoosh, I know you're not a Six Flags fan, but I would SERIOUSLY consider making an exception for Toro. I've only ridden a few handfuls of coasters, so I realize that my opinion is still closer to that of a newbie, especially since many of my coasters have been smaller coasters of less interest to die-hard fanatics. However, what I love about this coaster is its uniqueness along with its airtime. Not only do you feel like you're going to be tossed out of the seats on every hill, but its smoothness is nearly B&M-like. I honestly couldn't give you a recollection of a single rough spot. Plus, I think that B&M's coasters don't feel quite as fast because they ARE so smooth, whereas Toro has just that teensy bit of wooden roughness in terms of quick layout changes that it feels much more intense and wild. Truly the best ride experience I've ever had, and I've ridden at least one coaster in nearly every genre (except standups...grrr).

"Look at us spinning out in the madness of a roller coaster" - Dave Matthews Band

I'm aware of El Toro's reputation. I have no doubt its a fun ride. But I'm in no hurray to ride it.

^^Re: Canada's Wonderland, "I'll ride what I can, and not worry about the rest..."

That's all you need to know about Moosh's approach to riding to see where he's coming from.

For me, that statement is almost incomprehensive!!

Incomprehensible?

I used to (over)plan my park visits....

Get to park at opening, run to far end to ride low-capacity Mouse. Then back across park and ride the Boomerang (also low capacity). Then....

For the most part I've stopped doing that. Sure, when I visited Canada's Wonderland we planned to hit three coasters at park opening due to capacity concerns leaving the rest of the day unplanned...well, except to save Behemoth for last and to ride over and over ;)

But you know what happened when I stopped worrying about getting all the coaster credits? I started enjoying parks more. I found I was more relaxed during the day. I found I wasn't upset if, oh...I travelled all the way to Mexico City only to find Montana Rusa closed (true story!). I found that I was able to enjoy aspects of a park I hadn't before.

I'm pretty sure El Toro will still be at SFGAdv when I eventually get to the park but if for some reason the ride is removed or the park closes and I miss out I won't be upset. There are bigger things in life to worry about.

Moosh, you're totally right on it being better to take a more relaxed approach to riding coasters. At the beginning of summer, I was so anxious about my 50 coaster goal that all's I wanted to do was run to the nearest coasters I hadn't been on and get that ride time in. However, by the time I got to Great Adventure, I realized that although I was in a hurry to get those coasters in since I hadn't been on most of them, I didn't want to wait in line for Dark Knight just to be a credit ho. I rode Toro 6 times and Nitro 6 times, just basically walked back and forth to the queue lines and chilled OUT. Since then, I have been able to really appreciate the feel of the PARKS, as well as the coasters, and you know what? I've been able to do nearly everything I wanted to do anyway. I think sometimes we get so caught up in the newness of a park with a bunch of coasters we haven't gotten to ride that we just forget, hey this is an amusement PARK. Stop and smell the...Boardwalk Fries. LOL

So, is there anything else at Canada's Wonderland that is worth an entire trip out there? I hesitate to drive all the way up there for one coaster. Well, I don't HESITATE. I won't do it. LOL What about Kings Island?

"Look at us spinning out in the madness of a roller coaster" - Dave Matthews Band

CW has the sickest collection of flats you'll find in regional park.

Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."

Last time (only time) I was CW, I had a blast! I was young and overwhelmed, and didn't have a chance to really ENJOY it.

Coaster Junkie from NH
I drive in & out of Boston, so I ride coasters to relax!

So, is there anything else at Canada's Wonderland that is worth an entire trip out there? I hesitate to drive all the way up there for one coaster. Well, I don't HESITATE. I won't do it. LOL What about Kings Island?

Coasterwise, not in my opinion. The only coaster that begged for a reride was Vortex, the arrow suspended that has virtually the exact layout of KI's Flight Deck. Now that Cedar Fair is working with GCI maybe they'll hire them (heck, anyone!) to retrack the two woodies. Slim chance, I know...but one can hope, right?

Wait until Mustang opens.

Mamoosh said:
The only coaster that begged for a reride was Vortex, the arrow suspended that has virtually the exact layout of KI's Flight Deck.

So you say! ;)