No re-entry after 7? Kings Island.

Monday, October 15, 2007 2:19 PM
^^Ok, lets take this further ;)...

What about your classic midwestern thunderstorm that we get in the summer. That usually sends people scrambling for their cars and there is not nearly enough covered space in the park (especially considering that they close the coaster queues in a storm) to hold a standard summer crowd. Those storms usually only last an hour, and then the sun comes back out and everyone is ready to start riding again. They also tend to come through anytime between 12-2 pm. Under your plan, if a thunderstorm hit Mason in the early afternoon, I would either have to:

-hope I was in a covered coaster queue when it hit and stay put
-duck into the nearest store/covered area with a mob of people and pray I get under some cover
-leave the park and seek shelter in my car and not be allowed to come back for 3+ hours

If they were to enact this policy I would hate to be working the CR booth. And heaven forbid if a storm went through after 5...

Also you are going to get the argument that since you offer a twilight pass that is cheap and good for 6 hours why cant I buy a day pass only good for 6 hours at the same price? And with that you would go down the road to a Indiana Beach type arrangement that in the end will have people mostly buying one session passes and hurting your gate profit.

*** Edited 10/15/2007 6:21:44 PM UTC by Touchdown***

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Monday, October 15, 2007 2:39 PM

Touchdown said:
If they were to enact this policy I would hate to be working the CR booth. And heaven forbid if a storm went through after 5...

I wonder how KI would handle it if rained after 7pm during Haunt? I imagine any park could handle it the same way.


Also you are going to get the argument that since you offer a twilight pass that is cheap and good for 6 hours why cant I buy a day pass only good for 6 hours at the same price? And with that you would go down the road to a Indiana Beach type arrangement that in the end will have people mostly buying one session passes and hurting your gate profit.

Many parks already offer a discounted 'twilight' admission, but no discounted 'daylight' admission. Nothing has to change on that side of things. I had those kinds of parks in mind with the outlined plan.

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Monday, October 15, 2007 3:22 PM
If the problem with re-entry after a certain hour is to prevent drug use, drinking, or the introduction of weapons into the park, that's one thing. But, what does that policy do to prevent someone showing up at the gates after the appointed time drunk, stoned, or carrying weapons-- all of which still happened in the parking lot?

If the parks have adequate security in place to prevent troublemakers from coming in late, the same security should be adequate for those wanting to leave and re-enter. Or else it's totally inadequate, period.

Gonch, one of the first casualties under your policy would be Coasterbuzz events and others with early morning registration for ERT that happens 12 hours later. I'm not sure how many people would be willing to remain in a park for 12-13 hours without being able to leave and return at sometime during the day (without paying).

Maybe parks will try to implement paid re-entry policies. Personally, I think it will have the same result as every other policy they've put in place in the past 3-4 years. It will bring in a few bucks from a few people-- just enough to offset the lost income from the people they piss off enough to stop coming at all.

I just don't see the average GP family saying they have to spend as much in 6 hours as they used to in 10 to keep up the per cap spending.

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Monday, October 15, 2007 3:47 PM

RatherGoodBear said:
Gonch, one of the first casualties under your policy would be Coasterbuzz events and others with early morning registration for ERT that happens 12 hours later. I'm not sure how many people would be willing to remain in a park for 12-13 hours without being able to leave and return at sometime during the day (without paying).

But again, not really. Show up in the morning - stay as long as you want and return any time after 5pm and stay until close.


Maybe parks will try to implement paid re-entry policies. Personally, I think it will have the same result as every other policy they've put in place in the past 3-4 years. It will bring in a few bucks from a few people-- just enough to offset the lost income from the people they piss off enough to stop coming at all.

I'm not saying paid re-entry. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough?

1. Right now certain bigger parks (and smaller ones) have normal admission and they also offer a reduced admission for people coming to the park later in the day.

2. Many parks also seem to be implimenting some kind of no re-entry for these Halloween events with little-to-no backlash.

3. Some parks leaked the idea of all-day no re-entry with huge backlash.

All I propose is the possibility of using the logic behind #1 to create a system that works like #2 without #3 happening. :)

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Monday, October 15, 2007 4:04 PM
I think #2 is a good way to describe all these systems. ;)
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Monday, October 15, 2007 5:50 PM

Ensign Smith said:
The policy also has the added benefits of (A) forcing people to pay for exorbitantly priced lockers for anything they might need in the evening and (2) forcing anyone who didn't think of (A) to buy exorbitantly priced Cedar Fair jackets and sweaters. Either way, it's a win/win profit-wise for CF.
I figured there would be a one in three chance you'd be the one to post that first.
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Monday, October 15, 2007 6:04 PM
^^^ But wasn't the backlash with the SF rumors not because there was no re-entry at all, but because people would have to pay full admission price to re-enter? Even if they have season passes.

I was assuming the same holds true here. That is, if you leave the park during one of these events, you can get back in-- if you pay. Nobody at the gates is going to remember that you were in the park but left 10 minutes or 2 hours ago.

They won't say "you were here but left so you can't come back in." They're going to say "you're on the outside of the gate, and if you want to come inside the gate, you must give us xxx dollars."

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Monday, October 15, 2007 6:34 PM
The same does hold true here.

Go back and re-read through the thread.

I questioned why people were ok with this no re-entry, but spazzed when SF supposedly considered a no re-entry policy.

Touchdown mentioned the difference between 6 hours and a full day as a big factor.

I outlined a hypothetical plan that would essentially bridge the gap between full blown no re-entry policies and something like these halloween events do. Just for kicks.

I'm not sure what you're questioning. My hypothetical plan or the KI no re-entry deal?

If it's the KI thing - what you're saying is right. Leave the park and you're not getting back in after 7pm without another ticket.

With my plan you basically get one free re-entry...after 5 pm.

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Monday, October 15, 2007 7:19 PM
Just because I can....and do. ;)

HoS and HHN being an hour or so AFTER the park has closed and everyone has been kicked out. Separate gate COMPLETELY, and SP-holders still pay extra admission.

Need to edit here: I've only done HHN a couple times, years ago, and I *totally* understand how they SPEND money on the event. They need to make money off admission to pay for that level of insanity, and there is NO way they could have the place even more packed than it is...apparently they're trying Universal-only again. That event is simply TOO big to be held in either park....to get attendance down far enough for ME to go again, they'd have to charge double what they do now, and I'm not sure THAT would help. I'd love to go back there instead of doing Busch's HoS, but I cannot deal with those CROWDS.

Gonch is gonna be smiling, some others are crying, and I guess I'm more interested in the reactions. and how the compare/contrast works out. Consider also Knott's Scary Farm.

Bottom line: Moreso than day-ticket prices, or even SP prices, these separate-ticket events really ARE priced according to the laws of supply and demand. Just Universal's has too much demand for my liking, LOL. Maybe next year I'll get there EARLY in the Halloween season - they really DO have the best "event" in terms of number and quality of walk-throughs, mazes, etc. (of the events I've done).

For one single (mega)-dose of Halloween frights, go to Lake Compounce for the Haunted Graveyard....available separately or in conjunction with a LC ticket... ;)
*** Edited 10/15/2007 11:30:11 PM UTC by rollergator***

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Monday, October 15, 2007 8:00 PM
This isn't new at KI. Paramount did it durring fearfest. NO RE-Entry,

The big thing was to go out to the parking lot, Get smashed and come back in staggering worse than the zombies.

I say at least in this case. GOOD FOR THEM!

Chuck

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Monday, October 15, 2007 8:13 PM
I did not pick up a park map and apparently missed all of these signs.

I don't understand how it is so people do not exit the park, get smashed, and come back: There were beer stands all over the park and many intoxicated people who flocked to them. There were several people already intoxicated.

Perhaps they don't mind if people get drunk, so long as it occurs in the park with $7 beers?

As someone mentioned, I don't understand why the security during the normal year is adequate enough to ensure this doesn't happen and suddenly is not adequate during Halloween Haunt.

Perhaps this is a reason--I don't know. I only hope there are other reasons as well.

Edit: By the way, I did not simply look at a line and say that it was too long. We waited well over an hour for Club Blood. We participated in some other haunt--I can't remember the name--near Italian Job where we were able to get in immediately. It was rather pathetic. The only other thing we were able to do was Dead Awakening. It was very provocative. I actually liked (but far from loved) it, but the others in my party did not. *** Edited 10/16/2007 12:15:52 AM UTC by Infamy***

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Monday, October 15, 2007 8:36 PM

rollergator said:
HoS and HHN being an hour or so AFTER the park has closed and everyone has been kicked out. Separate gate COMPLETELY, and SP-holders still pay extra admission.

That's exactly what KI is doing next year for the Haunt. (see this thread)

My opinion is that KI's Haunt has a LONG way to go before it's worthy of a seperate ticket.

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Monday, October 15, 2007 11:40 PM
Gonch, to answer your question: Personally, I'm against any restrictions on re-entry. I believe if you pay for admission once, you should be allowed to leave and come back as you please.

I'm also against this policy at sporting events, although I don't have as much a problem with a venue where the policy has been in place from the beginning. Changing horses in midstream doesn't convince me of any need other than for the park, arena, etc. to make more money from a captive audience.

Why does the local arena not let me leave and re-enter during hockey games? Are they afraid I'm going to go out to my car and bring in a nuclear device because I'm pissed at some referee's call? Aren't the same security people there between periods that were checking us before the game?

Why do they have the same policy at Wiggle's concerts? Is there a big problem with 2 year olds getting drunk in the parking lots outside theatres? BTW, one arena that does allow re-entry is the Giant Center @ Hershey.

I don't buy that the issue is to prevent people from going out to the parking lot to get drunk, then coming back in. Who says a park can't refuse admission to anyone who appears intoxicated, whether they have a handstamp or not?

If you're not sure who's drunk, then buy breathalyzers, hire people who know how to operate them, hire more security for the gates and parking lots in case someone has a problem being told they can't come in. Install cameras, etc. Wouldn't that do more to eliminate trouble than to penalize the majority of guests who have a legitimate reason to leave and re-enter?

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Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:35 AM
Why is the answer always throw more money at the problem and hire more people?
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Tuesday, October 16, 2007 12:38 PM
Maybe because the park's solution is to charge more money? ;)

I'm with RGB- no matter what the excuse, denying re-entry is something I'm definitely against. If you download something you paid for and something happens to the file, you get to download it again. Why should amusement parks be any different? I'm not buying the line about people going to the cars to get trashed and smoke up. People at the gate are supposed to be trained to look out for that sort of thing. What difference does it make if people did it before entering the park the first time or the second time? Admission for them should be denied regardless of whether it's their first time in the gate or their sixth.

In my eyes, this is a money thing. I know tons of people that leave Great Adventure to go eat elsewhere because it's cheaper, then return to the park for the rest of the day. The parks don't want people leaving and spending their money elsewhere. The Halloween events seem like a good time to try this out before making it an all the time policy.

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Tuesday, October 16, 2007 12:43 PM
I can assure you, according to People Who Know™, this has nothing to do with making money, and everything to do with security. Right or wrong, that's what their intentions are.
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Tuesday, October 16, 2007 1:11 PM

RatherGoodBear said:


If you're not sure who's drunk, then buy breathalyzers, hire people who know how to operate them, hire more security for the gates and parking lots in case someone has a problem being told they can't come in. Install cameras, etc. Wouldn't that do more to eliminate trouble than to penalize the majority of guests who have a legitimate reason to leave and re-enter?


Rob, do you really want to go through this when re-entering a park? The only thing he missed is the park handing you a cup when you enter the park for the drug test. Even with a top notch security staff, people are going to come up with ways to beat the system. Denying re-entry pretty much eliminates people trying to beat the system.

If what RGB wants the parks to do is done, are you willing to pay the price for increased tickets, season passed and food to pay for it. Isn't that affecting you just as much as the no re-entry policy. *** Edited 10/16/2007 5:14:48 PM UTC by coasterguts***

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Tuesday, October 16, 2007 2:01 PM
I must be slipping, I forgot about the urine test and the body cavity search.

Guts, I was being facetious. I was showing silly and disingenuous this whole no re-entry policy is. They're telling you that you can't leave the park because you might get drunk and come back in and cause trouble.

My point is with that policy, they have no way of knowing whether someone who comes up to the gate was in the park 10 minutes ago, just drove up, or drove up two hours ago and sat in their car drinking.

I'm not expecting any park to take the measures I mentioned. I know they won't spend the money for additional security, even while claiming the reason they expect you to pay again if you leave is because of security. The policy is not that they won't let you in again, the policy is that they won't let you in without paying full admission again.

You say that denying re-entry pretty much eliminates people trying to beat the system. But how do they know who's trying to re-enter, and who's showing up for the first time? Nobody's going to be sitting there memorizing the faces of people coming and going. They're just saying that if you come to the gate, we're assuming you're just arriving.

If the issue is security, then why penalize the dad who ran out to his car to get an extra jacket for his kids? Maybe the bigger question is how does charging that dad an extra $35, or the drunken teenager $35 make the park any more secure?

Would these "People who know" be the same "People who didn't know" before September 21 that they were closing an entire park?

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Tuesday, October 16, 2007 2:10 PM
You don't have to trust my credibility. It doesn't make it any less true. It's a security move, not a money grab. Believe what you want.
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Tuesday, October 16, 2007 2:19 PM
I agree that the demographic is the reason for the policy.The park was loaded with young people during my visit on Oct. 6th. I don’t remember any chaos, but there sure was potential. . I’m not sure that drug abuse in the parking lot is their biggest concern, I think that fighting is. We all know how a single fight can grow into one hell of a bloody mess. I like the policy for that reason. I think that chaos in the parking lot would also come from the insane amount of traffic during that period. There are a lot families leaving and a lot of teenagers coming in. That smells like trouble to me. I would like so see the no admittance after 7:00 signs out inthe parking lot. I really don’t think that trapping us in the park is their intention. *** Edited 10/16/2007 6:20:59 PM UTC by Blackie***
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