No, DeSantis isn't "winning" against Walt Disney World

That's not a very good analogy. That family doesn't host a huge pride event every year, nor is it home to the giant corporation being inclusive to the point of being criticized for it by a minority. I mean, there are rainbows in the airport.

Well, the point isn't to get you to like the analogy, it's to explain my point of view, which remains unchanged.

I am under no obligation to visit a place that I don't have much love for in the first place (this point seems to be lost in the shuffle; it's not like I ever thought Orlando was the best place on Earth, even for theme parks, at any point in my lifetime) and has at least one loud spokesperson who, despite protestations from you, nonetheless represents the state and is telling me not to go. It's not hard to find other things to do with the time and money that I have that are just as or more enjoyable to me than Orlando, FL. I'll continue to enjoy California and other states that are NOT broadcasting negative messages in my general direction and feel no guilt whatsoever about it. If that impacts Johnny Service Worker in Florida, that's unfortunate, but Jimmy Service Worker where I DO choose to go will be positively impacted, so from my point of view, it balances out. I'm not thinking about the poor service workers at ChikFilA who are impacted by my not eating there, and the fact that they were like "Yay Pride" this year does not change that company's reputation in my eyes. I'll continue to not eat there and feel no remorse at that thought. Same principle with the service workers in Orlando.

Maybe it's not a good idea for a state that depends on tourism to go full blast on hatred into the megaphone? It just might have consequences, even if I turn out to be one of only a miniscule number deterred from visiting.

ThemeParkFan1990:

It's not hard to find other things to do with the time and money that I have that are just as or more enjoyable to me than Orlando, FL. ...If that impacts Johnny Service Worker in Florida, that's unfortunate, but Jimmy Service Worker where I DO choose to go will be positively impacted, so from my point of view, it balances out.

I had typed the same thing twice and deleted both times as I was not sure if my assumption of it balancing out was valid. I guess I am not alone in making that assumption.

In my mind I equated it to the rust belt scenario. People decided that they did not want American made cars so the factory workers lost their jobs. The jobs didn't just disappear - they simply went somewhere else (overseas). I don't remember many people having sympathy for the impacted workers/areas.

I mean, did you leave the country when Trump was president? He did represent the country. I think you forget that elected people are transient.

And to hopefully create at least some understanding, I personally don't like being grouped in with the malcontents that both of us loathe. When we're talking about issues of equality and discrimination, does it not feel a little icky to penalize the bystanders?

Innocent bystanders are always penalized whether it be car makers, churro makers, Bud Light makers, or chicken sandwich makers.

It would be interesting to hear your perspective in an alternate reality in which you did not live in Florida. Currently you have a connection to the “makers” that are impacted with this and I can see that making it somewhat personal to you.

Living in Ohio, we cancelled a trip to Dollywood earlier this spring due to the politics in Tennessee. Did we hurt the state - nope. Did we hurt the makers - a little. But how else do you protest what is happening in a state that you don’t live in?

It's a lot easier to choose not to visit a state (that I do not live in) vs. choosing to leave a country (where I do live). It's not exactly a 1:1 equivalent-there are vast differences involved in planning for one versus the other. We all have our own ways in which we protest against things we don't like. This is mine, and I feel like it's perfectly valid. Assuming that politics are in fact transient, and he/his policies/cronies/etc leave, I'll be back eventually. Till then, I'm out.

The bystander thing just feels like a weird thing to focus on to me, and you are focusing on penalizing the (presumably) innocent people who just happen to be there, but that's the thing about representative government. Presumably, if DeSantis was elected twice, he must represent the political will and beliefs of somebody in the state, down to and inevitably including, statistically, some service workers in Orlando, no matter how gay positive the mayor is/purports to be or the political feelings of major theme park corporations.

I just feel like it's very easy to say "well what about ____", when the policies in question that I'm objecting to, don't seem to obviously, directly affect you in any way. And that whether or not one is affected inevitably can color one's reaction to what's happening, whether consciously or not.

On a similar note, if something terrible happened in Illinois with our governor, I would inevitably be judged by some in relation to that, whether or not I personally had anything to do with it or thought it was the right thing for the governor to do. Some may feel so offended as to choose not to visit the state. It happens, and it may not be an indictment of me personally, but it is an indictment of what someone who represents my state has done. And I couldn't really blame people for feeling that way. It's not my place to tell people what is or is not a valid reason to visit, or not visit, my state.

I feel like Orange County is being portrayed as this bastion of liberalism when it is probably more like leaning blue. DeSantis lost Orange County by 25% in 2018 but only 7% in 2022. So even the blue counties in Florida have seemingly taken a hard right turn. This was well after DeSantis laid bare that he is a homophobe.

Travel may not be a zero sum game but it's pretty darn close. What hurts one economy benefits another. Subsequently we have a choice where we vacation.

Orange was +7D in an election that was +19R, for a 26 point swing. That's huge.

We find ourselves also spending less time in Florida, and doing so with intention because of the overall landscape of the state. We did go to Orlando this past March, but do not plan to go back to the state until next February at the earliest, in Palm Beach. We are actively looking to move that, and don't have any other plans for now. The earliest we'd go back is May '24, but more likely it will be Feb '25.

I sympathize with the idea that not everyone in FL supports the current administration, and some areas much less so than others. But we don't feel good about travel in the state right now, and would rather patronize somewhere else with our time and money.

I'm not arguing that Orange County isn't liberal in relation to the rest of the state. The 26 point swing in 2022 is similar to 2018. But it has moved to the right like the rest of the state, even though it is still a blue county.

Similarly we have spent considerable time in Florida on vacations. Yet, I don't have any plans to return until the opening of Epic Universe, at the earliest. Consequently we had plans on retiring to the Orlando area but have reconsidered. Part of it is the political landscape but climate change is probably a bigger factor. It'll be tough to give up the moderate temperatures and access to abundant clean water that the Great Lakes provide.

The idea that anyone could paint a broad brush over 21 million people, just because they are on one side of a border, is not logical. Do what you will, but I find that illogical. It's a double standard to say it applies at the state level, one of the biggest states, I'll add, but not at the national level.

ThemeParkFan1990:

Presumably, if DeSantis was elected twice, he must represent the political will and beliefs of somebody in the state, down to and inevitably including, statistically, some service workers in Orlando, no matter how gay positive the mayor is/purports to be or the political feelings of major theme park corporations.

I can't believe that none of you think this is hypocritical. You're responding to a terrible person who leans into generalizations and negative stereotypes by... leaning into generalizations and negative stereotypes. I realize it's not a perfect comparison (because that will be the response), but this us and them, politics as a sports rivalry nonsense is why we're here.

I'm a fan of pointing out that the "sides" are not morally equivalent, but when you exhibit similar behavior as the bad guys, the moral equivalence thing gets a little more real. That makes me sad. To quote someone earlier in the thread, "The terrorists win."

Jeff, you don’t have any brands that you avoid because of their policies? In the end people are free to spend their money where they want for whatever reasons they want.

Orlando is one of the most gay friendly places I’ve ever been to but I don’t know if I would feel safe there as a gay or trans person right now. **** is weird and the governor is throwing fuel on the fire and enabling the bigots every time he opens his mouth.

I'm choosing to vacation less often in a place I don't feel comfortable. If you think that's irrational, that's fine, I don't particularly care. This isn't the only way I am expressing this. I turned down invitations to interview for jobs in Iowa and Indiana, because I can't imagine myself living there. And you can bet your last dollar that I'm trying to poach faculty from Florida public universities.

First off, I want to say that anyone not visiting Florida because they “don’t feel safe” is really, really out of touch with reality. Nobody is getting thrown in jail, getting attacked by mobs in the street, none of that. I respect the feelings of those who feel that way, but the actual situation on the ground is far, far different. I know that central Florida is but one part of the state, but there’s no shortage of support for the LGBTQ+ community around here, and that includes a number of areas even outside of Disney.

As far as not traveling here to try and stick it to DeSantis and his base, I’d argue it has the opposite effect. If you feel like Florida is telling the LGBTQ+ community that they aren’t wanted here, which I again think is a gross mischaracterization of what’s happening and what the actual arguments are, isn’t you staying away basically giving DeSantis and his base what they want? That’s not protesting anything as much as it’s essentially admitting defeat. I’d argue that it could even end up energizing other right-leaning areas to do the same, at which point I’d contend you’ve harmed or stuck it to nobody other than the LGBTQ+ community itself. Forget the economic impact, which I suspect is minimal given the absolute bonanza of post-COVID travel dollars that flooded the state the past few years and the fact that Florida is an exceptional place to travel regardless of politics. I just think that if you want to stick it to DeSantis and his base, saying you won’t be deterred and that the LGBTQ+ community is here to stay is way more effective than staying away.

Now, if the conversation were around trying to get members of the LGBTQ+ community to move here, I could understand the concerns more, but given that the emphasis is on travel, well, I think staying away is going to have the opposite effect of what some people think it will.

The good news is that I don't need your permission to not go to Florida if I'd rather not go--and it doesn't matter why.

You certainly don’t, and I wholeheartedly respect your opinion. You and anyone else who wants to avoid traveling to Florida don’t have to justify that approach to anyone. The only point I’m trying to make is that, given the situation in question, I don’t think it’s a particularly effective form of protest.

sirloindude:

First off, I want to say that anyone not visiting Florida because they “don’t feel safe” is really, really out of touch with reality. Nobody is getting thrown in jail, getting attacked by mobs in the street, none of that.

That is technically all correct. But the current climate and policies in the state make the possibility of something happening greater than it would be without the current political climate

Largest U.S. gay rights group issues Florida travel advisory

TL;DR - there aren't mobs in the street openly attacking minorities in Florida. But the chances of a mob forming and openly attacking a minority are getting further away from zero by the day due to the policies and rhetoric being set in place by DeSantis & Co.

A fair point, but we’re talking a minuscule difference in how far away from zero it is. Travel advisories should be reserved for situations where you’re legitimately in danger. Airlines have to label secure areas in Johannesburg and a British Airways pilot got attacked for venturing out of one. Port-au-Prince’s airport got stormed by rebels not too long ago. That’s the kind of stuff that warrants a travel advisory. The governor not subscribing to the same ideology as some of these groups is hardly warranting of a travel advisory. That travel advisory is more of a political label than a justifiable warning. Florida is hardly unsafe to anybody unless you want to go skinny-dipping in the Everglades or say something bad about Publix.

I did see that they put a relocation advisory in place, which I think is perhaps a bit more appropriate, but I still think that the troubles for anyone aren’t likely to go much beyond politics anytime soon, unless you’re a teacher. Florida is way too diverse in countless ways for there to be any actual danger to any group of people.

Cancelled my trip to Florida because I didn’t feel safe. Decided to go to Chicago instead.

sirloindude:

That travel advisory is more of a political label than a justifiable warning. Florida is hardly unsafe to anybody unless you want to go skinny-dipping in the Everglades or say something bad about Publix.

I think you are mostly correct. But let's not forget the Nazis outside Disney Springs. Granted this was an isolated incident and could happen anywhere in the US. But rhetoric leads to actions, as we've seen in our recent past. So I understand if someone of the LGBTQ community does not feel safe or welcome in the state of Floriduh.

Also, Publix is overpriced.

sirloindude:

A fair point, but we’re talking a minuscule difference in how far away from zero it is.

Let's put the 'coaster' in Coasterbuzz.

We all spent last week Monday morning quarterbacking the Fury 325 crack. The general consensus around here was the riders were not in any actual danger, even in those last ride cycles when the crack was at its worst. We all agreed it would have been bad to ignore it and continue operation for days/weeks/months, but in that moment the risk to riders, while more of a risk than a "normal" cycle on Fury, was still extremely low. The ride, by its very nature, was overengineered with numerous failsafes to keep things safe in this situation.

Now let's pretend there was an ERT event that day and everyone knew about the crack. With an imaginary large group of coaster/engineering enthusiasts that understood all of the above, you would definitely find some that would have no problem riding on Fury with the crack. The risk went from .0001 to .0004 and those are still better odds than the drive down I-77 to get to the park.

You would have others that felt uneasy with it but perhaps would ride anyway. It may be their favorite ride, or they may never have another chance to get to Carowinds. But it woule be a concern and there would be some relief when the rides were over, even though the ride itself was as fun as always.

And then you would have folks, even diehard Fury fans and newbies that always wanted to ride the ride absolutely refusing to board the ride and potentially refusing to even enter the park, knowing that if something did happen they had the knowledge that the problem existed and they didn't agree with the decision to allow the ride to open.

Substitute cracks in steel for Ron DeSantis' politics and rides on Fury 325 on deciding whether or not to visit Florida where applicable.

Does that analogy make any sense to anyone? Or have I finally lost it?