No Coaster Con-SFGAM ?s
For one, you and everyone else who have nearly the same opinion about ride ops. at new rides need to know that operators are still becoming adjusted to the ride. There maybe training going on and/or processes that are being experimented with to allow the boarding process to go faster. Second, the crews aren't given access to the ride before opening day, so when they get there, a lot of stuff is new to them and that keeps the line long. I'm sorry that the ride crews can't keep up with the patience of the people in line.
And as you stated later on in your post that the ride will eventually fit into the harmony at Great America-of course, because the crews will know how to handle situations at the ride and the lines will be shorter. For instance, even though Raging Bull had a long line when it opened and continuously has long lines, the lines move faster now than they did back in '99 because the crews know what they are doing. It takes time-if you don't like it-visit the park on another day and not the opening day of whatever new rides. Because you just going to be disappointed.
However, the fact remains that rides do not dispatch as quickly when they open as they later will. This is a factor that must be considered when talking about capacity, and I'm not going to ignore it just because the ops are doing the best they can. That's just the way it will be, and I'm just happy that we have new rides for ops to work out.
If I may slightly change the subject, anyone have any information as far as a placement of the new coaster and flats??????
BMCOASTER
Nissan 350Z Driver
From what I understood last year, going to Safari Land after the convention was kind of the traditional thing to do with several enthusiasts, and/or Jeepers down the street. So I am sure there will be quite a few of them there after the Con.
Two years ago a group of us went to a Jeepers to ride the coaster. Last year a large group went to Safari Land to ride the largest Wisdom kiddie coaster I have seen. We had such a blast at that place.
It seems that finding a new indoor kiddie coaster to ride is something of a tradition and I would love for it to continue this year. However, I have a hunch that my plans will be booked for the first part of Saturday evening. As a matter of fact, I think a lot of people aren't going to be going out right after the Con.
Hmmmm
-Sean (who thinks No Coaster '04 will be one to remember)F.
Swoosh said:
For cryin' out loud. You know for a fact that it costs money to keep coasters maintained and you also know for a fact that the older the coaster the more costly it will be to keep it maintained. You bring up the question of why they are operating in poorer countries and parks -- well you answered your own question. These countries do not have as stringent safety standards as we do here in the states, so things that are mandated here are not necessarily the same there - there is your main reason for why they are operating.I don't see what the problem is here and yet you seem to be content to stay on the defensive. All I said is that the park has a new family coaster. I then said that this may be reason enough to stop maintenance funding for the Whizzer. I guess I should also add in here (even though I thought it was obvious) that it is a lot less expensive to maintain a NEW coaster than it is to maintain a rather OLD coaster (that was for you coasterdude, just in case you weren't following).
[sarcasm]
Oh and just reading your new post I gather that you are also the in park capacity cordinator as well. With you pph conclusions, and not to mention your book keeping skills you must be paid pretty well there at SFGAm
[/sarcasm]Next
-Dho
Weak? Where are your facts? I'd like to see some proof. I see a post full of gross generalizations. Let's start with your claim that it's an absolute fact that older coasters are more expensive to maintain than newer coasters. Where are your facts? Generalizations make people look ignorant. Do you have any idea how expensive new rides cost to maintain? According to a parts distributor who supplies parts for Schwarzkopf rides, the price of parts for Schwarzkopf rides have NOT significantly increased since the rides were originally built. Schwarzkopf rides such as Whizzer are remarkably simple machines. Compare the drive system of Whizzer to the drive system of V2. It costs several hundred dollars to apply new wheel tread to Arrow, Vekoma, Intamin, and B&M wheels.
Here's one example-
A simple GUIDE wheel on a Vekoma Flying Dutchman costs nearly $500. A guide wheel for a B&M Stand-Up costs about $200. So, it will cost Carowinds $200 whenever they need to replace a wheel on Vortex, but $500 when they want to replace a wheel on whatever that hideous thing they're building is called.
Older rides get expensive to maintain not because the parts are expensive, but rather how often parts need to be replaced. Parts are still widely available for old Schwarzkopf rides and they're not expensive. Just go to any trade show and ask around. Oh wait, you're probably not invited to trade shows...
Now let's talk about how you claim the main reason other countries operate Schwarzkopf rides is because these countries don't have strict safety standards and rides aren't properly maintained? Give me a break. Show me the facts. Show me where the United States has ANY federal safety standards for maintaining amusement rides. Hell, show me some state mandates that dictate how amusement rides are maintained. How ridiculous.
You don't know who reads and posts on these forums. You don't know anything.
#1 I never said that a part for the Whizzer would be less expensive than a guide wheel for a Flying Dutchman or even a B&M. As far as I know I was still referring to the stupid mouse that SFGAm is getting.
#2 You brought up the point that older rides need more replacement parts which equals out to where it would indeed cost more to maintain, mainly because you have more stuff to replace -- how is this different from what I said? You basically restated what I have been saying all along.
#3 Yes I was invited to the trade show, it appears that if you are a member of the IAAPA you tend to get invited.
#4 I am currently getting you the information that you requested. It may take me until later tomorrow to have it all though. I do find it interesting that you adopted the "show me or I won't believe you persona." Entertaining that you joined less than 2.5 months ago and you only have two posts to your name (and lucky me two of them are right here attacking me). Yep, sure gives you all the room in the world to an "expert."
I understand and agree with you on the point that you mentioned about the dispatch times at the new rides are slow at first but pick up later on in the season. It's like that for older rides too-but it's more noticeable at the new rides. Once again, sorry that it sounded like I was chewing you out but really I wasn't.
Here is what Missouri has for safety standards and rules. They are pretty much spelled out, there is also some about how a rider is to behave and what not. What you are looking for is about half-way down the page. Before I waste more time looking up stuff for you, do you need other states as well or will this suffice? I am fully aware that each state has it's own guidelines and there is no "blanket standards" -- even though Markey is trying, but this is for you.
There is NOTHING on that page that dictates how rides should be maintained. The only guidelines on that page deal with how and how long maintenance records should be retained-- that has NOTHING to do with HOW rides are maintained. Nearly EVERY state has guidelines that involve record retention. The stuff you provided show no regulations regarding HOW amusement rides should be maintained. Poor effort, try again.
In the case with older Schwarzkopf rides, I don't think parts need to be replaced any more often than a brand new coaster. Surely if they were replacing parts daily on a ride such as Whizzer then maintenance costs would be high. But older Schwarzkopf rides (such as Jet Stars, Speed Racers, etc) are inherently simple rides. I suspect parts are not frequently replaced, thus making the total cost of maintaining such a ride lower than high-tech new rides.
So I've only posted on Coasterbuzz a few times. Does that make me any less credible than half of the ignorant people who post on this site? Apparently you need to post thousands of worthless wastes of band-with in order to be considered credible.
And also-
#1 I never said that a part for the Whizzer would be less expensive than a guide wheel for a Flying Dutchman or even a B&M. As far as I know I was still referring to the stupid mouse that SFGAm is getting.
Actually, you said it's a fact that older rides cost more to maintain than newer rides. I pointed out that's not always the case. And I have a hard time believing you have any reason to be an IAAPA member. Running a poor enthusiast website does not qualify one to be a member of IAAPA. You have to pay to be an IAAPA member. So if you're bragging about paying money for no reason to be an IAAPA member then I'm sorry you're wasting your money. That makes you no more a part of the amusement industry than being a member of Coasterbuzz.
You ain't no Swoosh Shady. *** Edited 1/8/2004 9:59:44 AM UTC by Prone Coaster***
#2 - The only thing I have to go from on Schwarkopf roller coasters is the what the Zambezi Zinger had to go through during the final seasons - if the Whizzer is not having to go through the same thing then I applaud SFGAm for finding the miracle elixir that is saving the ride from wearing parts out.
#3 - I was just pointing out that you are a troll that's all. If you would like I can show you several of your posts that proove that. Of the (now 8) posts that you have done you have pretty much told the person that they were stupid and that they then needed to proove to you that they knew what they were talking about while all the long you have yet to show any hard evidence that you knew what the hell you were talking about. Interesting concept to say the least.
#4 - No I wasn't bragging that I am a member of IAAPA, you asked and I told you, if that constitutes a form of bragging in your neck of the woods then so be it -- I bragged to you. Would you like me to do the happy dance while I am at it?
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Ok here is my challenge to you prone. SInce you are obviously in cahoots with the major players of the industry. Give me exact links or documents stating that it is indeed more expensive to maintain a new coaster than say Whizzer. I also want to see some documentation that shows that is indeed not expensive to maintain the Whizzer. And oen last thing, I want to see documentation of where you came up with the prices for parts that you quoted me earlier. Then if you can (and these have to be a credible source), I will eat crow. However I don't think you can.
*** Edited 1/8/2004 4:41:00 PM UTC by Swoosh***
ASTM (www.astm.org)
F698-94(2000) Standard Specification for Physical Information to be Provided for Amusement Rides and Devices
1.2 This specification does not apply to the sale or transfer of used amusement rides and devices.
I guess that would explain why those countries buy so many used rides.
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F846-92(2003)Standard Guide for Testing Performance of Amusement Rides and Devices
1.1 This guide covers the basic tests which shall be conducted on amusement rides and devices during prototype development, installation or erection, following major modifications, and during normal operation to determine that the performance of a given ride or device meets the manufacturer's specified design criteria.
It states that not all countries have adopted this standard yet as it is new last year. Each of the states, though is required to adopt these but not verbatum, just to incorporate them into their own standards.
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Is this enough or do I need to provide more? Because now I have shown you that there are indeed material to back up my claims on what you tharted earlier.
and you know gator the more I think about it, the more I agree with your statement - only aimed at prone. ;)
*** Edited 1/8/2004 5:16:26 PM UTC by Swoosh***
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