No Coaster Con-SFGAM ?s
mOOSH
*** Edited 1/6/2004 8:25:02 PM UTC by Mamoosh***
Contribute.....
BMCOASTER
Nissan 350Z Driver
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TPDOM, Coasterbuzz's official bored member, unfunny-in-training member, and all around optimist. :)
TeknoScorpion said:
VolcanoTBC said:
The Mouse will never be a good ride.Oh, you rode it recently? There are many that say the same thing about V: TBC. This is a case of stating opinion as fact. You don't know that it will not be a good ride. And even if you did, it dosen't matter, The GP don't listen to you, and they're not paying you money to ride your rides.
I have, in fact! I've been on two of them already. I think they're dumb rides and they would make a poor addition to a park of this size. I think there are several other parks in the chain who could use this ride a lot more than SFGAm.
What the hell does V:TBC have to do with anything? You're just as bad, because Carowinds could add a Chance Toboggan and you'd be kissing their bums!
Swoosh said:
If you had read the entire post you would have noticed that I never stated that there were currently cost concerns
Uh, I did read the entire post. Did you? You stated, "SFGAm will now have a new family coaster in the park -- let's just say that this may be reason enough to stop investing the large amount of cash that it takes to keep Whizzer up." Where, exactly, do you state that cost is only a possibility? You presented it earlier as a sort of possibility, but here you flat out state that it takes large amounts of cash to keep it running. That's simply not true.
Also if his son is providing parts for these rides why is it that the Whizzer is the last one operating in the USA?
Because the rides are old and outdated? If they're really that costly to maintain, why are they still operating in much poorer countries and parks?
My argument is *not* against a family attraction for SFGAm! Every time I jump on something for being low capacity, people turn it into a "Those family rides pay for your new shiny coaster!" argument, and that's simply *not* true. Where has anyone in this thread argued that SFGAm should have gotten some big new B&M instead? Nowhere. What I'm arguing is that a wild mouse does *not* belong in a park the size of SFGAm. It's a terrible idea based on capacity, NOT on its target riders.
Pinkdoomofmonkeys: If you're bored, feel free to move on. Nobody is making you read anything.
-Nate *** Edited 1/6/2004 9:51:51 PM UTC by coasterdude318***
ANY new coaster is going to bring in new guests. A new coaster that is geared towards families [as a mouse is] is going to bring in people who, on average, SPEND A FREAKING ALOT OF MONEY when they visit a park. And guess what that money is going to pay for?
I predict this new mouse will be a big hit!
mOOSH
Oh, and I thought of one where the line was longer than that...it was on one visit at DCA. It was about 35mins.
I still think that after the line gets to be that length, people will opt to ride something else and try back later. I honestly don't see the line ever getting as long as say Batman The Ride. People will simply skip over it in favor of something more "worthwhile." Just my guess, though.
And from one of your earlier posts, I know they will *market* the new attractions - I never said they wouldn't. I just don't think they're hugely *marketable* in the sense they are not some huge record breaking (history making, lol) coaster.
We'll just have to wait and see how the new coaster is promoted though; more for families or more for the thrillseeker crowd.
The mouse won't have capacity. People will be upset to find a dull ride after a long line. They're not spending money if they're waiting in line. Great America already has a popular family coaster. Several other parks in the chain don't.
And if you honestly think a Chance Toboggan would make a good addition to ANY park, then thank God you're not running the show...
Legendary said:
what mice have you ridden where the line was longer than 30mins?
a) Dorney's Mouse (skipped it, easily 45 minutes)
b) Canada's Wonderland's mouse (waited about an hour)
c) Valleyfair!'s mouse (skipped it, line exceeded 30 minutes)
d) Exterminator (waited an hour)
e) BGW's Maus (waited 45 minutes for it the first time I was there, skipped it during subsequent visits)
f) La Ronde's mouse (line was about an hour)
And, while not a mouse, I've waited 45 minutes for Wildcat at CP.
The only exception to the rule is Hershey's mouse because it's well-operated. That ride gets over 900 people an hour thanks to the fact that the cars never stop moving in the station.
Properly run, a mouse coaster can run 8 cars at the same time. Hersheypark and Kennywood run their mouse coasters at full capacity without problem and from what I've heard SFGAm is one of the best run -- if not THE best -- parks in the entire SF chain.
Tell ya what. Why don't we wait until the ride is OPEN. If you're right and the coaster is poorly run with low capacity I'll gladly admit I was wrong.
mOOSH
Hershey's Mouse and Kennywood's Mouse are totally different rides. The Mack mouse offers the option of continually moving the cars through the station. This means the cars don't even stop moving for loading/unloading and you board the car while it's still in motion. The cars can be stopped to allow boarding for a disabled guest or someone who needs more time, but they generally have the ability to dispatch once every 15 seconds. That gives you a maximum theoretical capacity of 960 people/hour. That's pretty damn excellent for a Wild Mouse. God, Mack is a great company.
Let's move on to Reverchon. Great America is reportedly getting a production-model Reverchon Spinning Mouse, ala Exterminator at Kennywood. The Reverchon mice cars DO stop in the station-- several times, in fact. They are dispatched by the ride operator when the block is clear and the passengers (and their belongings) are secure. These cars dispatch approx. once every 30 seconds, giving you a theoretical maximum capacity of 480 sweaty, tired, hot, tired-of-waiting-in-line guests per hour. I think Exterminator is a perfect fit for Kennywood, but the long lines will attest to the fact that the ride's capacity just isn't as stellar as the other coasters in the park (Phantom with 2 trains, etc).
Thanks for participating.
If your position was that a low capacity ride has no place at a large theme park than you chose your words quite poorly in that quote above, as I [and others] interpreted your dislike of the addition as that you simply didn't like the ride.
I'm not disagreeing that a mouse coaster can be low capacity, when run poorly. It could very well be a disaster of an addition for SFGAm. I'm willing to wait to see how it's opereated to make such a proclamation.
I still stand by my claim that, marketed properly, it will bring in families. It is well documented that families spend more money on their visits than other park guests. If that money pays the way for a much larger coaster down the road than I'm all for adding the mouse now.
mOOSH
*** Edited 1/6/2004 11:23:38 PM UTC by Mamoosh***
Wood - anything else is an imitation
Chitown said:
O.K. Aside from all that, I saw coasterqueenTRN's post about attendees going to Safari Land after the convention.Is this something that is going to happen again this year with some of you? If so, post here. Maybe I can get out there to meet some of you and discuss what happened at No Coastercon.
From what I understood last year, going to Safari Land after the convention was kind of the traditional thing to do with several enthusiasts, and/or Jeepers down the street. So I am sure there will be quite a few of them there after the Con. Can't exactly go to Great America anyway. ;-)
I guess it would be sorta the same as going to SFKK the morning before heading to SRM. lol.
I won't be there this year but I look forward to the TR's.
-Tina
*** Edited 1/6/2004 11:25:38 PM UTC by coasterqueenTRN***
Mamoosh said:
I still stand by my claim that, marketed properly, it will bring in families. It is well documented that families spend more money on their visits than other park guests. If that money pays the way for a much larger coaster down the road than I'm all for adding the mouse now.
But the question to ask is, "Is adding amouse for that purpose a good move?" My answer is a resounding "No." If the park wanted to add a family coaster, I think it's great; more power to them. I'm glad SF has started their attempt to appeal to familes in order to bring up in-park spending. The problem is, as Volcano TBC pointed out, a mouse isn't going to leave visitors happy. Whereas a mouse works great in a smaller park (and thus a shorter line), people are going to be pissed off waiting so long for such a ride. No, I don't think it will ever draw two hour lines like B:TR, but I don't think a one hour line will be uncommon. Like I said, there are far better (higher capacity) family coaster alternatives, and it's sad this ride is being stuck in a large park when it could serve a much better purpose elsewhere.
-Nate
coasterdude318 said:
Pinkdoomofmonkeys: If you're bored, feel free to move on. Nobody is making you read anything.
Yes , but I'm making myself read this stuff. :)
You must remember, some people get addicted to forums.
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This topic is getting boring again.....
You are correct.
And it doesn't matter one bit.
In my opinion, anyway. See, if this ride follows the patterns I've noticed, it will be extremely crowded the first year. It won't be everyone and his uncle trying to get on, but it will be a lot. As with all first-year rides, the ops will be slow as molasses, and things will get pretty bad. But, that is only this year. In years to come, most guests will know that they needn't bother with it, and the ride will become a happy, healthy, contribution to SFGAm's capacity, filling a nice little niche of its own. I'll even go so far as to say that, despite the capacity issues in its first year, people won't mind.
You see, I think this is the same sort of deal as Giant Drop, only better. In 1997, I saw the line for Giant Drop reach 3 hours. 3 F'n HOURS for (at most) a 30-second ride!! And I was actually suckered into waiting a full hour. Now, I would be very shocked to hear anyone who's been on an Intamin 2nd Gen. say that they would wait an hour for one. But I hadn't been on one, previously, and neither had anyone else. Now, I'm not going to say that it quite lived up to a three-hour wait. But, it was new, and it was exciting. Even though I would never wait an hour again, I don't regret doing so the first time. Since '97, I rarely ride GD, as I know what to expect, and the wait usually isn't worth it. But a fair amount of people do find the (usually less than an hour) wait acceptable, and the ride manages to keep them off the midway.
And I think the mouse will be even better, actually. First off, I think less people will want to ride it. It's not big and exciting, and there will be some new, big and exciting things to steer the eye elswhere. Of course, the spinning factor could prove me wrong on that, so don't quote me, here. But more importantly, look at the target audience: Families. Now, non-families may come away with a bit of a bitter taste in their mouth, but they can just hop on Batman or something else exciting with a fairly short line and wash it away. Families, on the other hand, will probably love this thing no matter what. A good ride, after all, can wash away almost any bad line. And while parents might not find the ride to be all that, pleased parents don't equal a good family ride. Pleased children equal a good family ride. And children are much easier to please. Each turn, dip, and spin is much larger to a child than an adult. Heck, they'll just be glad they're tall enough to go on something so cool. And, of course, children are capable of nearly instantaneous 180-degree reversals of mood. While they might be holy terrors after standing in a line too long, they might not even remember it upon getting off the ride. And one look at a grinning child will the sway the mood of any parent.
So, will there be long lines? Yes. Will it ruin anyone's day the park? I don't honestly think it will (well, OK, it will ruin some peoples' day, but not many). And will it eventually settle down into a nice little niche? I think, almost certainly.
"Where, exactly, do you state that cost is only a possibility? You presented it earlier as a sort of possibility, but here you flat out state that it takes large amounts of cash to keep it running. That's simply not true."
[sarcasm]
Well OK I will admit, you obviously are the book keeper for SFGAm and I should doubt your words, I mean afterall you would know every little expenditure there is.
[/sarcasm]
For cryin' out loud. You know for a fact that it costs money to keep coasters maintained and you also know for a fact that the older the coaster the more costly it will be to keep it maintained. You bring up the question of why they are operating in poorer countries and parks -- well you answered your own question. These countries do not have as stringent safety standards as we do here in the states, so things that are mandated here are not necessarily the same there - there is your main reason for why they are operating.
I don't see what the problem is here and yet you seem to be content to stay on the defensive. All I said is that the park has a new family coaster. I then said that this may be reason enough to stop maintenance funding for the Whizzer. I guess I should also add in here (even though I thought it was obvious) that it is a lot less expensive to maintain a NEW coaster than it is to maintain a rather OLD coaster (that was for you coasterdude, just in case you weren't following).
[sarcasm]
Oh and just reading your new post I gather that you are also the in park capacity cordinator as well. With you pph conclusions, and not to mention your book keeping skills you must be paid pretty well there at SFGAm
[/sarcasm]
Next
-Dho
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