Maverick work has begun

Matt, I think you missed my point. Going back to Magnum, CP has had numerous issues with new coasters (Magnum's third hill, Mantis first drop, WT supports, MF cable, along with everything under the sun with TTD). However the ride delivered was basically the ride promised, it just took some time to get it "right." With Maverick, the issue is more of a breach of contract rather than just faulty imo. Maverick's animated video is significantly different that the ride today without the heartline. Yes, all of my examples including Maverick are faulty (I understand what you are saying), but imo Mavericks issues are in a league by themselves and certainly major. I'm not discounting that at all.

What I was trying to convey, is that it is possible way back in the very beginning Intamin said to CP that their computer modeling shows the element will work, but it is right on the line. So they "think" the element will work, but need to test it. Clearly the test failed, and now the element has been removed.

Fifteen (15) days to redesign supports/track, fabricate, paint, ship, and install is amazing. There was a real team effort to pull this off (trust me).

I believe (suspect) that Intamin has been very transparent with CP over these last ten (10) years and that is why the relationship continues. If you tell me of potential problems/issues way before they occur, then I am less likely to be blindsided and upset imo.

Thats good.

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SVLFever said:
I noticed the number of track piece changes as well. I am wondering if the design of the replacement track just happened to be 4 pieces, due to the original placement of the footers.

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I mentioned before your post that they may have replaced a small piece of the track just before the roll. It was before the joint of the next piece of track.

http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/fun/blog/index.cfm?entry=b9cddc01-9105-46fb-a37a-131b341984d2

If you look at the first picture the track is cut. It may be the replacement piece of that track before the other three full pieces.

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Thom25 said:
What I was trying to convey, is that it is possible way back in the very beginning Intamin said to CP that their computer modeling shows the element will work, but it is right on the line. So they "think" the element will work, but need to test it. Clearly the test failed, and now the element has been removed.

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So possibly Cedar Point ordered a ride they knew could be faulty to begin with?

This just sounds really mind-boggling to me.

They built Dragster didn't they?

^You order a coaster hoping it will be 100% problem free and then prepare for when it isn't. With all the problems any new coaster could have I just can't imagine the conversation in the boardroom that day.

"Hey, so they say the roll on Maverick may not work."

"Oh....ok, build it anyway."

What that was to show was that CF takes risks when it comes to building new coasters.

I seriously doubt that Intamin could say with definitiveness that Dragster was going to work perfectly either. If they did, boy were they wrong.

Matt, I think CP ordered an extreme coaster with many elements pushing the envelop on Gs. Hense, "going in a new direction" (extreme Gs at lower heights than before). I don't think CP ever intended this ride to be a "family" ride.

I also think like Maggie, MF, and TTD, CP wanted Maverick to have a signature element - and the zero G roll and 95 degree drop fit that bill. I further speculate like weather modeling most models had the element at 5 Gs, while a few may have predicted 6 or 7.

So the short answer to the posts above is "yes." Like TTD, I suspect CP and Intamin knew this element could be problematic and had a conginency plan.

This "fix" happened way to fast (10 business days) for this not to have identified as a problem months ago imo.

Tom (who sells new cutting edge technology within the food industry, and yes, we try to call out all potentials issues before delivery AND we committ to fixing them at no cost to our customers)

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Thom25 said:
This "fix" happened way to fast (10 business days) for this not to have identified as a problem months ago imo.

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Where are you getting your 10 business days number from?

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^Good customer service is fine but it doesn't change the fact they delivered a faulty product.

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I just totally disagree with this premise.

Maverick has not opened yet, so it is not "faulty". There are simply some things that are unforseen in this process. It's not an exact science.

From your persepctive, I cannot remember a ride that Cedar Point has that is not "faulty".

From your logic:

Maverick = faulty

SkyHawk = faulty

MaxAir = faulty

WT = faulty

TTD = faulty

Magnum = faulty

Mean Streak = faulty

Gemini = faulty

MF = faulty

Mantis = faulty.

So, every ride company is faulty?

I think what really happens is that Cedar Point consistently forces companies to push their technologies to the edge. This creates unforseen issues, but when it delivers, it's a home run.

Anyone who thought for a second Maverick was a family ride made that up in their mind. *** Edited 5/24/2007 1:05:28 AM UTC by OhioStater***

Dictionary.com says

"Containing a fault or defect; imperfect or defective."

Play semantics all you want, that's fine, there are obviously different degrees of "faultiness" but I think having to replace track pieces before the ride has even opened is on the high end of things. The bottom line is that there are companies that build coasters which work really well right out of the box, and then there's Intamin.

Intamin can get some credit pushing the envelope a bit more than those other companies but if the ride don't work at the end of the day I don't think it matters much. Whether that's the case or not with Maverick we'll just have to see. *** Edited 5/24/2007 1:13:10 AM UTC by matt.***

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Thom25 said:I further speculate like weather modeling most models had the element at 5 Gs, while a few may have predicted 6 or 7.

So the short answer to the posts above is "yes." Like TTD, I suspect CP and Intamin knew this element could be problematic and had a conginency plan.

This "fix" happened way to fast (10 business days) for this not to have identified as a problem months ago imo.

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Ugh... do we even have to go there again?

The problem was exactly what they said it was: They weren't happy with the stress on the train and the track. Imagine if you will, several tons of train suddenly pulling on wheels, axles and bearings at high speed as it whirls through the inversion, using a wheel design that has essentially gone unchanged in eight years, before anyone ever thought about applying it to a ride element like this. There's your missed expectations.

As for the G's, you're not even in the neighborhood of being right. The G's on the rider were never a problem, and even if they were high, the duration is negligible.

There's no conspiracy here. They found the problem when they began testing with accelerometers, the week before they intended to open it.

I wasn't playing semantics at all. All of those rides above had "design flaws" which had to be fixed, in most cases after the ride had opened. And up there you have Arrow, Intamin, B&M, S&S, Dinn, and Huss.

And, in all cases, those companies were building the "fastest, tallest, steepest" etc of what was out there. Maverick is an other "experiment", so I would argue it's more the case of CP asking the company to push their ride to the edge, rather than the company itself.

And aside from the early years of TTD, which will probably go down infamously, Intamin has never affected any of my trips to any horrible degree, and I visit at least 10-12 times a year.

I just dont understand the whole "lets rag on Intamin" thing.

I do, though, see where youre coming from, Matt, and I know you are certainly not alone in that opinion. Heck, maybe thats why they have 17 coasters...so on any given day at least 15-16 will be working. :) *** Edited 5/24/2007 1:24:04 AM UTC by OhioStater***

What's that Dr. House once said...something about hearing a stampede of horsing coming your way and thinking....zebras!

I've never watched House.

I hate not getting jokes.

Here is a video of the new track being installed.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Keb25zhDfh0

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OhioStater said:
I just dont understand the whole "lets rag on Intamin" thing.

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They build coasters that don't work a lot of the time.

That's totally separate from how much I like the rides, because I like them a lot. More than most B&M's which work better so you win some, you lose some.

The Dr. House thing was a reference to Jeff's post. Hearing a stampede of horses and thinking zebras - sometimes the most obvious explanation is obvious because it's the right one.

Ah yes, Ockham's Razor. I gotcha.

I agree with you 100% on the "like" scale. Does Intamin have a reliability problem in other parks as well? Or is it centered on Cedar Point?

I met up with an ACE'r from Toledo who was at the park all day. He said that the shots we saw of the train on the lift was just lift hill testing. It would roll up fast and then right at the top it would stop and then slowly roll back down.

Also, they did do a pull through with the Clearance board. However, it was not a train, but rather a set of casters designed to run on the track and hold the clearance board.

We were there til close and they hadn't run a train yet. But there were people in the station playing with the controls in the station an on the transfer track.

The person in this picture and this picture (who ever he is) told my fellow ACE'r that they are hoping to open Saturday. My ACE buddie said he had a heavy accent. Could this be an IntaRide engineer? Sandor maybe? I have no idea what he or anyone there looks like. But he was the only one climbing around that didn't look like a construction worker.

http://rollercoasterfreak.com/Cedar_Point/Maverick.html

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OhioStater said:
I agree with you 100% on the "like" scale. Does Intamin have a reliability problem in other parks as well?

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There's been a lot but once the ride gets up and running it's hard to tell what the park's fault and what's Intamin's. Outside of CP Kingda Ka, El Toro, SFMM's Superman, SFWOA's Superman, and SFNE's Superman come to mind, but again, blame could fall on the designer or the park or somewhere in between, I don't pretend to know insider details or anything.