Magic Mountain Gay Pride Night

These sort of lines exist among all minorities whether they are racial, religious, or something even as trivial as a group of cyclists working towards equality on the roads.

Gonch, I see both of what you said as too similiar. What I see here is:

This is me (which fits in to both of your comments)

and

This is me, NOW I DEMAND THAT YOU ACCEPT WHAT I'M DOING!

The people who aren't ashamed or say 'get used to it' are the ones that don't care if someone accepts them or not, and the only thing they seem to demand is what we all demand, basic human rights.

The 2nd set of people, be it religious, gay, political, etc. seem to be the people that if you don't accept and support what they're doing, you're wrong. I don't have to accept and support something I may disagree with. I just have to accept the fact that I have to afford those people with the same rights that I have.

To me, I see the reverse of what Demon is saying. When I see someone pushing an agenda and demanding people accept it, I think they're the ones that have self esteem issues. They're the ones trying to MAKE everyone else accept them. The people that do thier own thing and don't care if people see them doing it or not are the people that I think are over their issues.

What a great discussion. And I like hearing all the different points of view. Thanks, CoasterDemon, for being brave enough to use the word "fag." And no, I don't care to associate with "fags." That's my own personal decision. However, that being said, I agree with Techno, er, Tekwardo. I'm proud of who I am, I don't care if someone else knows, but I'm not going to push myself on anyone. I don't have to do that. I have nothing to prove.

Like LK, I'm from a very small community, religious based, where acceptance is increasing, and I think that's great. But it's through a quieter living style where the community is learning who we are, that we are not as outrageous as typically stereotyped.

CoasterDemon: You seem to have a lot of strong opinions about what a gay person is supposed to be, which seems counterproductive to me. On one hand you seem to identify with the community as "my people" but then you call out a subset of that community as being "spineless clones." I've heard that kind of thing before, but usually from the far right.

The enthusiast stereotyped is "living in mom's basement, over 250#, pasty complexion, and poor social skills". Doesn't mean everyone fits the mold.

Some stereotypes of the gay community have been formed (mostly in error) due to the "We're here, we're queer, get used to it" Pride-march mentality. The gay people I know vary WIDELY from person to person - some are quite vocal, others quite subdued. Most are well-educated (although that may be a bias on my part since I mostly know well-educated people regardless of sexual orientation). But there are going to be some people from every group in society that fit the preconceived notions, others that do NOT.

PDAs - pretty much, if it's OK for a hetero couple to engage in the behavior, then it's OK for a gay couple to do the same...

To summarize, here's Peter Griffin: "The gays are a very clean people, and have been ever since they came to this country from France"... :)

With all due respect, Gator...you're pretty gay yourself for a straight man :)

(relax, peeps...he'll take that as compliment)

As for Pride events, I just want to clarify that I still think they're necessary and good. I just chose to stop attending when it became less of a political movement.

I don't really have a problem telling my kids that some girls like other girls and some boys like other boys. They are going to figure it out eventually.

I've never even had to have the conversation---they've both played with kids from two-mom and two-dad households since they were old enough to play. In their experience, it's just another kind of family, like single-parent households, those where grandma (or grandpa, or both) live at home too, etc.

Sort of the same way that neither one of them ever experienced a world where TV was "on a schedule" rather than recorded to a hard drive.

Mamoosh said:
With all due respect, Gator...you're pretty gay yourself for a straight man :)

(relax, peeps...he'll take that as compliment)

Thanks...and I do....now if only I could learn to dress better... ;)

You don't need to be gay, I'm sure there's an app for that.

Would that be the Gay App for the Straight Guy?

^^^ Now there is a stereotype! Not all gays have fashion sense and that is a great point! Whether you relate to gay, queer, fag, bi, or straight (or all of the above) we as humans are not cookie cutter. Yes sexuality does group us and with gays has been used to repress us, but it is not what defines us. How we act as individuals is what defines us just like every other human on this earth. I am proud of who I am and my sexuality is part of it, but there is a lot more to me then that.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with gravitating to people that you feel comfortable with. If the group Sons of Italy rented out a park no one would care. Why should it be different for LGBT group? Early in the post someone mentioned that holding your boyfriends hand in public was "Pride". This action could be taken as flaunting your sexuality by some and down right offensive by others. That is why being with a group that does not judge you on that is refreshing.

I also wanted to point out (if this point has been made and I missed it sorry) is that Pride events and private events like KI or MM are very different. A pride event is to make the statement that we are here and we are queer and is rooted in politics. The private park events are for the LGBT community and their families to get together and have a good time. I personally love the KI event. I have had more fun in the park during the event then any other time at KI.

I think the world is advancing in acceptance and equality, this post is a small example of that. In years past when anything LGBT would be brought up there were always a few haters that would jump on immediately and ruin it. We have gone 5 pages of posts with great discussions and no hate. That is something we all can be proud of.

Jeff said:
CoasterDemon: You seem to have a lot of strong opinions about what a gay person is supposed to be, which seems counterproductive to me. On one hand you seem to identify with the community as "my people" but then you call out a subset of that community as being "spineless clones." I've heard that kind of thing before, but usually from the far right.

What I was trying to say, is that there are many "spineless clones" out there that describe themselves as "not faggy" or "not a fag." People can think and say whatever they want. The reason I say something to guys like that is b/c they say it with a sense of better-than. Fact is, many gay men (and lesbians for that matter) that VERY MUCH fit the stereotype of what our society things as gay - those are the ones who have done the most for gay pride. The Stonewall Riots, I'm thinking of.

Same thing happens with African American folks who hold themselves higher by saying they are "not a N*****."

^...^ obxKevin - the point I was trying to make is that if you don't call yourself a fag, don't call the nelly queen one either. No matter how manly you think you are, we still have something in common, are together in this. And those 'fags' and queens, sissies, drags, etc., are the ones who tend to stand up, fight if they need to, etc.. Like I said, go to your local park and hold your boyfriends hand, NOT on gay day.

Zakkster said:
would care. Why should it be different for LGBT group? Early in the post someone mentioned that holding your boyfriends hand in public was "Pride". This action could be taken as flaunting your sexuality by some and down right offensive by others. That is why being with a group that does not judge you on that is refreshing.

I see heterosexual couples holding hands, kissing, etc, all day long at any given park! Are they flaunting? Should we all not hold hands in public?

I'm pretty traditional when it comes to dating, and I like holding a guys hand (if I like him!)! Whats wrong with that?

"Heteros do it" is not a response, because it assumes that people are OK with that too. If I see a couple of hetero teen making out in a queue at the park, I don't want to see that either.

The reason I say something to guys like that is b/c they say it with a sense of better-than.

So that makes them more or less gay than you? That still doesn't make sense. People think they're better than me for all kinds of reasons. Who cares?

So long as your palms aren't sweaty (or hairy), nothing!

This is very interesting.. I came here to read about that unfortunate incident in Louisiana and wound up reading this entire thread afterward. My $0.02, some of which is just random thoughts:

- I am gay, for the record :)

- It seems to me there are a LOT of gay coaster fans... many more than you'd expect based on the assumed ~5% of population being gay. Not just on this board, but at parks, events, etc. Anyone else notice this, or are my statistics getting skewed somehow? :)

- The "official" Kings Island gay day (in Sept) is not used as any type of segregationist event (someone mentioned this earlier in the thread) - rather, it is for fundraising. The local GLBT center buys out the park (not rents it), then they sell their own tickets, and keep the difference as profit (in very general terms). Anyone can go, and in fact I've seen some savvy hetero families, complete with kids in tow, enjoying the nonexistant lines. Any group can do what they do, but based on the number of religious shirts I see during normal park hours (lots and lots), I think churches prefer to stage field trips and such instead.- By the same token, I can't say I've seen ANY "over the top" gay behavior at the KI event, and I've been going for many years. Of course, I avoid the Festhaus and the shows and concentrate on rides, but queues are quite orderly without any "excessive petting" :)

- CoasterDemon says "I see heterosexual couples holding hands, kissing, etc, all day long at any given park! Are they flaunting? Should we all not hold hands in public?" and Jeff responds with "'Heteros do it' is not a response, because it assumes that people are OK with that too. If I see a couple of hetero teen making out in a queue at the park, I don't want to see that either." Two points on this- first, it appears CD is discussing typical benign behavior - handholding, smooches, etc... not spelunking the depths of your partners throat. Second, and more importantly, Jeff dodged the main gist of the argument - if it's appropriate for heteros, it's appropriate for gays. And it's not appropriate for gays if it's not appropriate for heteros. Exactly where that appropriate/non-appropriate line lies depends on the location and situation. Formal event? Handholding at most. Amusement park? Handholding, smooches, maybe even a quick tongue kiss goodbye. Drunken rock concert?? Suck his tonsils out :) I personally don't care if I see people make out, straight or gay, but I can see parents not wanting that in the bumper car queue (again, straight or gay).

- For those lambasting gays for celebrating their "flamboyant" lifestyle at events... well, what if that was their (gays) main hobby? I know a lot of gays who spend most of their time *doing* gay things... that's just what they do. Who cares? As long as they're not causing public disturbance.. and if they are, arrest them like you would anyone else. We have laws already in place. If some "queen" is walking the parade route with his junk hanging out of too-short shorts, toss 'em in the lockup/drunk tank for indecent exposure like you would anyone else. EQUAL treatment, folks... not special :)

I had a few other things but this is already too long... Oh, regarding civil unions vs marriage.. give us full, equal legal rights, and call it a civil union if you want.. we'll call it marriage regardless and eventually (years) ...everyone else will too :)

metallik said: Anyone else notice this, or are my statistics getting skewed somehow? :)

It does seem higher in the enthusiast community, but then we generally don't have a family to support and therefore more disposible income with which to attend events.

Or, we just enjoy riding wood.... ;)

metallik said:
Jeff dodged the main gist of the argument - if it's appropriate for heteros, it's appropriate for gays. And it's not appropriate for gays if it's not appropriate for heteros.

I did no such thing. That was my point. It's exactly what I said, and you even quoted me. He said:

I see heterosexual couples holding hands, kissing, etc, all day long at any given park! Are they flaunting? Should we all not hold hands in public?

First off, I don't know who is protesting hand holding in the first place, but my point stands. If it's not socially appropriate for hetero folk to make out on the midway, or spit on the sidewalk, drop F-bombs in front of small children... it doesn't even matter what it is... then why would it be for gay people? It's not even a gay/straight issue.

Jeff said:

The reason I say something to guys like that is b/c they say it with a sense of better-than.

So that makes them more or less gay than you? That still doesn't make sense. People think they're better than me for all kinds of reasons. Who cares?

No, Jeff :) I was trying to explain that we are all equal. Perhaps not in the best way for you to understand.

edit - thanks, metallik, for explaining things out a bit more.

I like to hold hands, but I sure don't wanna be making out with my boyfriend/date in front of ANYONE. A 'peck' is ok (again, these are my personal comfort zones).

obxKevin said:
Mlnem4us, don't put words in my mouth. I never said what you implied.

Yes there may be stray instances of lewd behavior in public associated with these events, but by-and-large these are private events held behind closed doors. It's not the large display of lewd behavior generally seen at Pride events. Yeah, I've been to one, so don't tell me the lewd behavior is a small part of the whole event. My guy and I can't take his ten year old daughter to that. Doesn't matter, gay or straight, lewd behavior in public is not acceptable.

There are lewd people everywhere.

Why don't you be a positive gay role model, and NOT behave like that. Rather, just hold your boyfriends hand (NOT on gay day). There are PLENTY of glbt folks that don't act all crazy and sexual (chaps, etc.) we just happen to see them b/c those folks are slightly more flamboyant and 'different'.

How can you be part of a solution, not the problem?

As far as diseased and drugs, yes. Minority groups have roughly a 2X likely hood of their addictive genes expressing themselves. Addiction is an illness, and the glbt community is plagued with it. Like any other illness, there is a treatment. I'm proud to be 23 months sober myself.