KKK plans protest at Dollywood on unofficial gay day

I think everything that can be said has pretty much been said in this conversation.

Just wanted to take a shot at my own side here: Superman (no name) is right in that homosexuality is mentioned only a few times in the Bible. Whereas things like love, compassion, forgiveness, etc., are mentioned over and over and over.

Jesus said (and this IMO is the most important verse of the Bible): "The greatest commandment is this: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. The second-greatest commandment is: Love your neighbor as yourself."

Or, as my minister sums up Christianity: "Love God, love people."

Christians are on the wrong track with this issue. It's one thing to stand up for an issue, but it's another to let it make you lose focus of what's really important.

I agree, because it's what I think chases so many people away. Maybe the movie Dogma was a little too real and that's why it scared the church so much.

I remain amazed at how well this thread has gone.

Although it has definitely strayed a bit, I have to commend most everyone for making this one of the most fascinting and level headed discussions I have seen here.

It's a tough subject, and one that has the potential to tear our country apart. However, seeing the responses here helps restore my faith in out society a bit.

Basic human nature, IMO, is good. With the exception of radical, insane extremists (like those demonstrating at Dollywood) most people want whats best for each other and our society.

I still hold tight in the hope that with a little more patience and understanding.... and a lot of help from the big guy upstairs.... all this will lead to better times ahead.

I know two gay men who were and are Roman Catholic Preists. One left the Priesthood to pursue a relationship with a man (and has continued for 10 years so far) and the other remains closeted and still in the Priesthood. I am not Catholic, but have had some fascinating discussions with both regarding the rationalization of it all. Two memorable things came of my talks with them:

1. The bible was written long before any type of scientific breakthroughs or developments were made. So although it's basic principles still stand and SHOULD be followed, you have to remember that the mindset of society in biblical days was not nearly as understanding or educated as ours today. That creates a huge hurdle in trying to apply outdated ideals to current complex feelings.

2. There's a statement many church's tell young children... "God don't make no junk." I hold tight in that, because if he doesn't make junk, then he must not think poorly of those that happen to be gay. God doesn't have the hang-up, humans do.

I think I have exausted myself on this one. So again, thank you to everyone.

Shaggy

Oh, and Moosh... you sure know how to make a fella blush. LOL!

LOL Shaggy...I enjoy whipping that old chestnut out every once and a while [no, no...not that old chestnut].

I think the only other thing I'd like to add is the old American Indian proverb [I'm paraphrasing here] "Don't judge a person unless you've walked a mile in their moccasins." The only people who understand what it is like to be gay or lesbian and the personal struggles they face are those who are gay and lesbian.

When I was in college I was on a speakers bureau. We'd go to different classes [Marriage & Family, Human Sexuality, etc] and talk about our lives and answer questions. It was rewarding. If anyone has questions about being gay or coming out or about the issue of choice feel free to email me. Ask anything you want.

mOOSH

|>3/\/ said: "Christians are on the wrong track with this issue. It's one thing to stand up for an issue, but it's another to let it make you lose focus of what's really important."

Ummmmm, amen? :)

F'ing A (men)...

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Ask anything you want.

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So I can't judge you until I start watching Joan Crawford and John Waters movies? ;)

WHAT?!?

Jeff,

I agree with you about the Dogma movie (which just happens to be one of my faves). No story could describe organized religion so well, especially the downside of it.

-Tina

*** This post was edited by coasterqueenTRN 5/22/2004 3:38:56 PM ***

Are there any news about the events at Dollywood?

Here is an update of the story, no arrests happend link with video is below.

http://www.volunteertv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1888170&nav=4QcHNLLy

No matter what the Bible says about homosexuality or marriage, this country is not just for Christians. There are people in this country who don't even have a religion. So, why is Bush making restrictions that only apply to a limited amount of people? I'm Jewish, and the Old Testament also says not to "lie with a man as you lie with a woman." But who cares? To be a Jew, or a Christian for that matter, you don't have to believe every single thing the Old Testament says. One aspect of Judaism is the kosher diet. It's mentioned in the Torah, but I don't have to practice it. At least in Judaism, the only requirement is that you believe in monotheism. Everything else is argumentary. To hell with the "sacred institution" crap. The divorce rate is the highest it's been in years. What kind of harm could possibly be brought upon you if we have gay marriage? Are you afraid of a second season of 'Queer Eye for the Straight Guy?' Big deal. Some people are gay. So what? That's only ONE aspect of these people's lives, just as heterosexuality is only ONE aspect of our's. If anything, we should just "love thy neighbor" and "do unto others as we would like done unto us."

We just want the same rights as Brittney...to marry and divorce in less than a day.

Sanctity, my @ss!

mOOSH

I really thought this argument had ended, and on a pretty good note.... but I just wanted to mention - one thing I've heard too many times is this:

"To hell with the "sacred institution" crap. The divorce rate is the highest it's been in years."

Yeah, WE KNOW. Most people who talk about the sanctity of marriage aren't too big on divorce either. I think the problem of lack of commitment and responsibility and a misunderstanding of what love is, is a FAR bigger problem in the U.S. than whether or not gays should marry.

So stop using that lame comeback.

I was just trying to be funny, Den.

I know *you* were, but "keyboardplaya" wasn't, I'm pretty sure. :)

I went to Dollywood on Saturday and it was a perfect day despite the small number of protesters. When I arrived around 11am there were maybe two or three protesters outside the entranceway to Dollywood. I agree with the 5,000 number of gay people in the article linked above. That may be a conservative number - there were lots of us there. I have to give props to the non-gay patrons. They were on very good behavior. I only heard a few random biggoted remarks while in the queues, but that's about it. I was glad to see that there was a lot of law enforcement officers in the park - again more props to Dollywood for the precautionary measures.

The park wasn't very crowded considering it was a Saturday. I don't know if that is normal or because of the publicity, but I chose to take advantage. Most of the rides had waits of 15 minutes or less and that included Thunderhead and the TN Tornado. However, the Swingamajig is a story of it's own. 30 minute wait for two ride cycles is completely ridiculous for a swing ride with two ride operators. They need to get it together - it was, without any doubt, the slowest ride cycle of any ride in the park! All in all I love Dollywood! It is an incredibly beautiful park with lots to do. I'm glad it is my home park!*** This post was edited by coasterfreaky 5/24/2004 12:08:30 PM ***

The issue of marriage has become completely aschewed from it's original intention as I see it.

It's obvious that the gay culture wants marriage simply for the recognition by our governments, and the general constitutional rights that brings. Such as being able to register taxes as a couple, or make decisions regarding a partners health needs should they (God forbid) need it.

I hear very little argument from the gay side about the religious connotation. Meaning, very few are pushing the gay marriage issue based on feeling it will "right" them in the church's and God's eyes.

On the flip side, the religious sect of our country wants the institution of marriage to remain "sacred" because of the the religious connotation it holds. They argue against it because they percieve it as a slap to the laws laid out in the bible and a threat to their Christian beliefs.

I hear very little from Christians regarding the basic rights issue. Meaning, very few are pushing against the gay marriage issue based on feeling it will give inappropriate governmental rights to gays.

My point? The sides are yelling at each other over two entirely different points. It amazes me how way to often people feel they must take two completely opposing sides to a subject and fight and argue until it eventually gets resolved on middle ground.

I say grow up and find the middle groud to start with. Develop a non-religious based civil union process that the govenment recognizes and that does not even try to be based on any sort of religious grounds.

Remember, there are people out there that are not gay that live their entire lives together that could use these sorts of governmental rights as well. I know of several elderly folks, who in old age live together for economical and mental reasons, yet because they are not recognized as a marriage, often get shut out when one dies.

Shaggy

Amen, Shaggy!

My issue with organized Christian religion (and a lot of non-Christians for that matter) is that people do not think for themselves and instead act like sheep. (Guess that's why they call it a flock huh?) In a lot of cases, these people are listening to groups fanning the flames (evil gay agenda, going to convert your kids, bring down society, etc.) simply so they can generate fear and fill their coffers full of donations. Then the anti-gay marriage ballot measures come, and these same people rush to the polls based on fear and ignorance and "vote" on who I get to marry. Funny, I don't remember deciding who they got to marry. And I find it offensive that this issue even exists at all. Whom I love and marry should NOT be up for public referendum.

I don't believe that the President is in that catagory, but he is just as ignorant, or perhaps using this issue to divert people from other issues. Either way, it's unaccpetable that the leader of a country that is suppose to stand for equality, is trying to introduce something into our founding document that promotes the opposite. If you want to "protect" marriage (which is not under attack from gay people) then go stand outside the divorce court with a protest sign and start doing things to limit divorce.

It seems like we as a country have learned nothing from the past. We all look back in history and see how ridiculious those things seem to us now. Slavery. Women not being able to vote. Interracial marriage. Back of the bus/seperate drinking fountains. These things all make us look like a bunch of idiots, and yet this country continues down that path even now. The only thing that changes is the group targeted for discrimination. Why can't we ever learn from past mistakes? Why does intolerence in one form or another continue to exist? Quite simply, in a country where everyone is supposed to have the same rights, it should not. Instead of ammending our founding document, it is time that it be honored fully and that this country truely becomes a place where all are treated equal.

Hear, Hear!