Kennywood sale makes fans nervous
Posted
Resentment of foreign ownership is a key complaint among the Pittsburgh faithful in response to yesterday's announcement that Kennywood's parent company was sold to a Spanish company.
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Please. You know that's not even in the realm of being the same circumstance. People say that Polish people are stupid for the same reason they say Spaniards eat tacos. They're applying a stereotype based on nothing (and in the case of Spaniards, it's not even the "right" stereotype), to poke fun at someone.
Gonch typed:
It's the kind of comment that frustrates me because I see no difference between "Americans are intolerant" and "Polish people are dumb" or "Blacks commit crimes" or whatever ethnic or racial stereotyping you choose... Let me know the next time you hear someone of Polish descent say, "You know, you're right, I really am pretty stupid."
When I say we're intolerant of the outside world, that's not some racial/ethnic slur or joke. It's akin to saying people in Amsterdam are liberal or Japanese teenagers are fascinated with technology. You're the one who said you didn't want to settle for mediocrity, and yet now you think it's wrong to self-criticize?
Why would I propose a way to 'patch things up' if I personally wanted her tossed from a window? I'd keep it to myself instead. And even that might not be enough to appease her new bosses.
This is all I'm going to say about this because having a serious conversation with you is about as satisfying as having a serious conversation with an alzheimer's patient. Instead of debating with people you don't like in a civilized manner, you opt to toss about a bunch of mean-spirited insults and sarcastic digs (see: comments about my ADHD and my supposed Fritos addiction) and then vehemently deny that you started anything. I guess you are a lucky bastard because you're obviously unaware of your multitude of flaws. Then again as they say, ignorance is bliss.
And with that "personal attack", you're free to say whatever you want. Make yourself feel better by putting other people down. Who knows, maybe you have a blog where a bunch of people can join hands, form a circle around you and remind you of how wonderful you are. All I know is that I'm backing out of this one now and if you want to be the last one with your you-know-what hanging out, that's fine with me.
As for what Gonch said, I'm not sure I see where he's going with that. The polish stereotype has to do with people from that country being bumbling morons... and not only that, it's a stereotype that probably originated in this country. I'm sure there's an American-created steroetype for everyone in the world that's senselessly shallow... unlike the rest of the world's stereotype that Americans are selish and conceded... which many are.
*** This post was edited by Rob Ascough 12/13/2007 10:03:16 AM ***
Stop and think about it - what has much of this thread become other than American stereotyping?
I don't think so. I think it's just another projection of one of my favorite topics: people are stupid. In this case, stupidity is combined with lack of experience, because most folks here simply aren't exposed to other countries or cultures on anything approaching a regular basis.
Europeans are stupid too, but they're forced to live much closer to one another, and so have learned through painful experience (c.f. World Wars I & II) how to get along reasonably well. ;)
Besides, if you want to talk about ignoring things that were said, why did you chose not to elaborate on why you seemingly implied that a Spanish company would want to toss a problematic employee from a window, or perhaps even worse
Sure. There's this word called 'hyperbole.' You might wanna look it up.
Who knows, maybe you have a blog where a bunch of people can join hands, form a circle around you and remind you of how wonderful you are.
I get enough of that in real life, thanks. Is that what you look for here? Or elsewhere on line? Might that explain....well, the continued blowing and puffing?
I'd consider editing that if I were you. It. looks. BAD. Jokes aside.
-CO
Jeff:
You're the one who said you didn't want to settle for mediocrity, and yet now you think it's wrong to self-criticize?
Yes, exactly.
I love the term self-criticize. That's precisely the word I couldn't find when I posted that.
Even worse, my comments on 'stealing it back' were only a little tongue-in-cheek. When thing get political, conservative Gonch tends to poke his head a little further out of the hole.
Although I have to admit, I'm a little concerned about the direction of my post when Chuck starts agreeing with me. ;)
Rob:
I'm sure there's an American-created steroetype for everyone in the world that's senselessly shallow... unlike the rest of the world's stereotype that Americans are selish and conceded... which many are.
Yikes. That sums up my point to uncanny levels. Supposedly American created generalizations about others are senseless, but generalizations about Americans created by others are true? I'm sorry, I just don't get how it's a one-way street.
How many people reading this consider themselves selfish and conceited? Raise your hands. Come on, don't be shy.
How many of you are intolerant and/or ignorant of anything outside the USA? Again, raise your hands. Keep them up long enough for me to count.
Brian:
I think it's just another projection of one of my favorite topics: people are stupid. In this case, stupidity is combined with lack of experience, because most folks here simply aren't exposed to other countries or cultures on anything approaching a regular basis.
Yeah, you're probably right...and I'd even agree a bit. But when did people are stupid turn into Americans are stupid?
Which goes back to Jeff's comments questioning my take on mediocrity and self-criticizing. Mediocrity is a world-wide phenomenon as well.
I type something like my last post with thoughts on a global scale (imagine that - an American considering something outside of his home borders). As a global community why are we ok with being the whipping boy? It exists globally. Just like all kinds of people are stupid, all kinds of people commit crimes, all kinds of people are drunks - again, whatever stereotype or generalization you choose to fill the blanks in with. The difference is most of the other silliness isn't perpetuated by the group in question in the first place.
In my eyes saying, "You're right, we as a people suck" in this context is the definition of stupidity and mediocrity.
Maybe we really are so intolerant that we're even intolerant of ourselves. ;)
I'm also not entirely without conceit. That's one of the perks of my job. ;)
Even worse, my comments on 'stealing it back' were only a little tongue-in-cheek. When thing get political, conservative Gonch tends to poke his head a little further out of the hole.
Then you may have mis-interpreted. I'm not suggesting that we allow others to steal it back. Rather, I wish we'd openly admit that we came by this country by hook AND crook, rather than have this idealized "it was just lying here and we FOUND it" attitude.
Playa said:
I'd consider editing that if I were you. It. looks. BAD. Jokes aside.
Edit what? That's the way you come across- everyone should worship you for how smart you are as you remind everyone else of how stupid they are because they disagree with you. And now all of a sudden this is just joking around? Somehow I miss that message.
Gonch said:
Yikes. That sums up my point to uncanny levels. Supposedly American created generalizations about others are senseless, but generalizations about Americans created by others are true? I'm sorry, I just don't get how it's a one-way street.
Believe me, I'm not condoning stereotypes against Americans, but there is something to be said for the way the rest of the world views us in light of the way we act. I don't want to get political- especially because I believe that something had to be done about Hussain and the turmoil in the Middle East- but just as we felt it was right to march into Vietnam and fix a problem that wasn't ours, we felt it was right to do the same in Iraq a few years back. It's the way stuff like that is presented, how America feels it's up to them to solve all the world's problems. While being selfless we often appear selfish, and I'm sure selfishness often hides itself as selflessness.
There's a big difference between systematically accusing the Polish as being stupid by joking their navy is comprised of submarines with screen doors and claiming that the United States of America feels the need to rule the world because they stick their noses in things that have little to do with them. One thing is a silly generalization while the other is serious enough to warrant some serious thought.
*** This post was edited by Rob Ascough 12/13/2007 11:43:08 AM ***
And that's what's so freakin' frustrating about it. We could just accept that other religions don't infringe on our own, especially given that our country guarantees that freedom. We could do the jobs and make the products people want in a competitive way so other countries aren't "taking" those from us. We could find ways to embrace immigrants and make them a part of the system that they're already contributing to for our national benefit. Instead, we wave our flags and bitch about how unfair everything is. To pacify that, our politicians go after the wrong bad guys and introduce protectionist measures that send signals that we're too good to play on the global stage by the same rules as everyone else.
The side effect? Stupid comments about taco-eating Spaniards and stupid Polish people.
I'd feel better about things if we started doing the work and succeeding on the merits of our innovation and motivation. Then you could write off a silly comment like Mary Lou's as irrelevant.
Humans have free will and choices that determine their behavior. As such, my basic characteristics today are not only different than the American next to me, they will indeed be different than my own in a few years. Such is change.
And even with the example provided about America fighting wars they shouldn't, how can that translate to a legitimate stereotype about Americans in general? One could argue that our government made the decisions and we choose our government so we are responsible individually, but our governmental democracy is not that simplistic.
This thread has traveled down a path of Mary Lou made an inappropriate and inaccurate comment about Spanish culture. Mary Lou represents Americans with her demonstration of inadequate knowledge about the world around her.
But how can one be an American who disagrees with the sentiment Mary Lou expressed and still agree with the conclusion drawn from it? I just don't understand that.
In the last 4 or 5 posts there's lots of grey area for me. Stuff I agree with, stuff I don't. Nothing in particular to quote and debate, really.
At this point we're wavering between generalizations and specific points of discussion and I find it hard to do that.
All I know is Carrie is a lot smarter than she lets on - and I should've known that considering the ass beating she handed me playing Scrabulous. ;)
"Fight domestic terrorism, attend a powwow."
I chuckled to myself, because to an extent, that statement has merit. Perhaps not anymore, but it did years ago. The fact of the matter is that this country will always have white people (I'm white by the way) who are insecure about people from foreign lands coming into their domain, be it on a boat, or buying an American business. It's been that way for generations. Before you make any anti-immigration remarks, ask yourself this question. When did your ancestors get here? Were they here on the Mayflower? or in the American Revolution? Perhaps they came over in the late 1800's/early 1900's, when millions of immigrants came to the states. Did they come legally? I know that the past is the past, but paying no homage to or taking no account of where this country has been on an issue like this is just as ignorant as racism and bigotry. Also, anybody who has done much traveling would see that there are a lot of foreign people (Muslim or not) who don't like us right now, nor have ever really liked us for the same reasons some Americans don't like them.
For years now, there has been a culture of fear and anti-foreign sentiment cultivated in this country. Many of the large media outlets are guilty of contributing to this. Don't believe me? Watch the news on a few different local and national stations and see if negativity doesn't rule. Check and see just how nice the news is on the international front. One of the major issues of the upcoming election is illegal immigration. I do have a beef with those who come in illegally and are treated like a citizen. I can understand American resentment over losing a lot of high paying jobs overseas and over the border as the article stated, but newsflash folks, it isn't a foreign person's or even a foreign companies fault that we lost the jobs, it's the American company's fault for sending them there. Everyone's worried about China's rise to power and wealth, and America is the one who has given them trillions of dollars in business. American companies have full power to hire their own citizens, but they choose to hire foreign workers and open factories overseas because it's cheaper, and the government allows them to do it, so if you want to blame something for losing jobs, blame the greedy American business culture, our need to have a little more money, and the ever rising bottom line according to Wall Street and other analysts.
Ms. Rosemeyer's comment was a little off color. Was it racist? No. No company in their right mind (least of all one who just sold to a foreign company) would ever project that kind of image. I see her comment as a reflection of what people in the community were saying. I'll just bet that some moron made the comment in a letter or a phone call that Kennywood would now be a giant taco stand, and she used it for a reference. Not the smartest comment ever made, but malicious? I don't think so. Just another example of something being blown way out of proportion.
It's just funny to me that the US goes off on this vigilante crusade without ANY idea of what it would take to rebuild a country halfway around the world....and clearly without the MEANS to do so. Now our infrastructure is failing, we still have a LARGE area of the country STILL devastated by Katrina (as well as MANY other needs here inside our borders), but our best young men and women *and* our money are being spent to re-build the infrastructures of Afghnaistan *and* Iraq. Virtually no one in the world "went ballistic" when we retaliated against the Afghan regime for 9-11. Virtually no one supported us when we went in to topple Saddam. And now we're paying for it....in the lost lives of some of our bravest young people in uniform, and in doolars that we siomply don't have to spend (that's why SCHIP was vetoed, right?).
Just hard for me to reconcile the mixed messages we get from our "leaders" - almost choked on that word, LOL.
I can't speak for everyone but when I hear jokes about a country or a specific group of people, I can't take them very seriously. I'm sure most jokes (and therefore stereotypes) are based on something because there is always a shred of truth in a joke but if someone starts telling me that Polish people are obvious in Atlantic City because they're playing the parking meters (yeah, I've heard a lot of them), I'm not going to assume they're all that dumb and ignorant. But make a serious generalization and I'm going to sit up and take notice, and possibly even assume there might be a little more too it. You don't have to watch a lot of MSNBC or CNN to realize that other countries really, really hate the United States, and if you watch a little more you'll probably learn a dozen reasons why there is so much hatred directed at us. Other people want to knock our planes out of the sky, level our tall buildings and kill us in a myriad of ways. That alone is reason for me to take notice of the stereotypes attached to Americans... a lot more than the Polish take notice of the stereotypes attached to them.
I completely agree with you Bill. It blows my mind that our country should be flushing out caves in search of Bin Ladin yet our solution to the problem was to wipe out a dictator hundreds of miles away in a country that really had no obvious ties to the animals behind 9/11. Bush had an issue with Hussein and it couldn't be more obvious why thousands of lives have been lost over Iraq instead of the hunt for the Taliban. Americans realize that and the rest of the world certainly realizes it. Something had to be done about Iraq but by doing what we did, we cast in stone the notion that America wants to have its hands in everything. Besides, there were (and therefore still are) many issues throught the world that were more pressing than the Iraq situation at the time.
*** This post was edited by Rob Ascough 12/13/2007 1:38:39 PM ***
For example, I've never had a stitch of difficulty with the infamously rude French. I stumble along in my worse-than-bad Francais rather than expect everyone to speak English.
I actually had a waiter who made a big show out of not understanding English several tables over switch immediately to grammatically perfect English when I started giving him my order in extremely bad, halting French plus wild gesturing at the menu. Now, that could be because he couldn't stand me butchering the language, but I actually got what I wanted, unlike the couple across the room.
For example, I've never had a stitch of difficulty with the infamously rude French. I stumble along in my worse-than-bad Francais rather than expect everyone to speak English.
I agree entirely with the idea you're putting across.
But then I also expect the same in return - especially if you're not 'just visiting' :)
(and that kind of goes back to the 'not letting others steal what we already stole' idea)
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