If The Scream Machine Must Go, Then Where?

Yep, everything has a price, and that equates to a budget priority. The Loch Ness Monster did for Busch Gardens what no other coaster has done, become both an impact ride, and deliver a massive surge in attendance. LNM put that young park on the map for good. Therefore, it will be around long after Ron Toomer.

However, I think you will see those smaller corkscrews for many moons, like the one at Silverwood, or even a custom model like Cedar Point's. Mid-level rides like the Anaconda, which never really did much except get some CNN coverage in May 1991 will just go away without much fanfare.

Had Geauga Lake still been operating, the Double Loop would still be humming along without many issues.

Prediction....Gemini will be around much longer then Magnum. Its the sensible decision.

The GASM must stay! And get LAPBARS, some new hardware paint lights and tunnel, and become the SCREEMIE MEEMIE!

It would be huge, and probably a great ride. But that would be thinking outside the box...

Someone mentioned 'precision engineering' and Arrow in the same sentence, that was a bit strange :)

Another thing I wanted to add (or marvel at) is how well the old Antons have held up - they were all built with sockets and joints - the Shockwave and Mind Bender being the extreme example (every support has ball and socket at the track connection as well as concrete footer). B&M still employs ball and socket on roughly every other support (NOTE: I would ride an Anton or Arrow any day over a B&M, personal preference).

It always was curious to me the Arrow engineering - even as a kid. Not only the cut and paste of the loops, etc., but also how every piece was simply welded together. I still think with a few modifications, GASM could live on in a slightly different incarnation, and be very successful. Notice how much rubber shock absorption has been placed on many new coasters, especially Intamin.

CoasterDemon said:
But that would be thinking outside the box...

In forums like this, isn't that what people claim when they don't want to deal with the reality that the thing they love so much is just a business to those who control it.

Hell, we could all "think outside the box" if money didn't matter.

Gonch, you wouldn't be raining on my parade now would you? hehehe :)

But really, I do see your point. I also see Phantom's Revenge, and have ridden a handful of others that have had their shoulder bars removed. It could be done.

As far as business is concerned, if Six Flags started to treat guests with respect and regard (see Holiday World, Dollywood, etc.) then I think (as Will Koch once said) the service will speak for itself, word of mouth, etc., and the money will come.

CoasterDemon said:
As far as business is concerned, if Six Flags started to treat guests with respect and regard (see Holiday World, Dollywood, etc.) then I think (as Will Koch once said) the service will speak for itself, word of mouth, etc., and the money will come.

Haven't been to a SF park lately either, I'm guessing.

They've done just about a complete 180 from where they were 5 or 10 years ago.

With all due respect, it's a lot easier to lend create that 'personal touch' product when you're a single, independently owned 'small' park in rural Indiana than it is when you're a billion dollar coporation that serves 30,000,000 people across the US and in other countries each year.

While they might not be my cup of tea, the small family parks like Holiday World and Knoebels and the like are great little places indeed, but the key thing to remember is that they're the exception...by a long shot. That's why we talk about them - they're exceptional.

If you think CF or SF or any of the countless corporate parks that make up the vast majority of the industry can begin to operate in or create a product similar to the small, local, one-off, family owned parks then you really are still "thinking outside of the box" :)

You're right *hugs* :)

^You Jezebel! ;)

If the corporate big shots allowed it, I don't see why some of the smaller parks in the CF or SF chain couldn't be run in a similar way as an independently owned park. All that it takes is well-intentioned, observant park management, and placing less of a focus on short-term profit, and more focus on customer service, in my opinion.

A telling sign about the future of the "giant" Arrow loppers, is one of the reasons SF went to Arrow for a new prototype ride (that turned out to be X) was because they felt Viper had become old and outdated.

Being the largest of the Arrow monsters (and also already heavily trimmed to control the forces), I suspect it's days are also numbered, at least in it's current form. :)

LostKause said:
If the corporate big shots allowed it, I don't see why some of the smaller parks in the CF or SF chain couldn't be run in a similar way as an independently owned park. All that it takes is well-intentioned, observant park management, and placing less of a focus on short-term profit, and more focus on customer service, in my opinion.

It's cute that you think it could be that simple. :)

Are you suggesting that no parks other than the handful that enthusiasts gush over - the small family-owned type places - have management that is well-intentioned, observant and customer service focused?

Hell, I'd argue that it doesn't necessarily even take those traits to deliver the experience those smaller parks do.

Lord Gonchar said:
Are you suggesting that no parks other than the handful that enthusiasts gush over - the small family-owned type places - have management that is well-intentioned, observant and customer service focused?

Hell, I'd argue that it doesn't necessarily even take those traits to deliver the experience those smaller parks do.

Agreed. See KD during the tail end of its Paramount days for a prime example. It wasn't a slab of concrete with rides bolted on top and the service was extremely good (ditto its sister park in southern Ohio). It had a great woodsy feel in many areas and even those without it didn't feel bland or tasteless. Intimidator and Dominator don't seem as well-executed as their predecessors around the park, but it's still not too bad. It hasn't totally suffered from that "corporate" feel from which a lot of other CF parks and some of the smaller SF parks suffer. Service is still really good, too. And need I bring up Disney's service levels and the level of "magic," if you will, that they provide, and they're about as un-small park-ish as it gets.

Mamoosh said:
^You Jezebel! ;)

I'm a Jezebel b/c I sent someone a friendly hug!? I better go look up the word Jezebel, while I'm at it :)

Interesting topic!

Someone a while back mentionned rolling stock and that is also a sticky point for many Arrow and Vekoma rides.

Back in the 80's, when pretty much every Vekoma loopers came with Arrow trains, Vekoma was selling rides in Europe as fast as Arrow sold them in the US. The only park in Europe to buy Arrow rides was Blackpool Pleasure Beach. Vekoma even sold a mirror clone of the CW Dragon Fire to a park in Germany. Now, those rides are aging and the Arrow trains dying left and right. Alton Towers and Holiday Park retrofitted Vekoma shells on top of the Arrow chassis for their Vekoma Corkscrew. Everland got 2 strange prototype Vekoma trains for their Arrow looper. Lotte World got 2 new Vekoma trains for the indoor Vekoma looper, etc. Sadly, for some reason, Arrow only sold one set of the Drachen Fire trains to a park in Japan for their standard Corkscrew. Was Arrow selling them for too much? Lack of visibility there?

Regarding Magnum, I am affraid for its fate. Its newer sibling, the Big One, already needs new trains after 15 years and had so much track and reprofiling done over the years, I don't even think Ron Toomer would recognise his ride. Does Magnum have issues with its trains?

I think Magnum will be fine. They just retracked the first drop a couple of years ago. The trains are like tanks, and having seen them stripped down, surprisingly uncomplicated.

LostKause said:
...and placing less of a focus on short-term profit...

You incorrectly assume that this goal is mutually exclusive of the other things you suggest.

I'll admit that I've never run an amusement park before.

Mamoosh said:
^You Jezebel! ;)

...also, Gene loves you.

^I was waiting for that reference...took ya long enough! ;)

I have no idea what you guys are talking about. The only thing that comes to mind when I read the word Jezebel are the lyrics to a KMFDM song.

"Be mine, sister salvation.
Juke-Joint-Jezebel is coming for my cremation"

I won't insult your intelligence with a LMGTFY link. But just google 'Gene' and 'Jezebel'. See what that gets ya. :)