If The Scream Machine Must Go, Then Where?

Jason Hammond said:

Jeffrey Seifert said:
IIRC Chang did not have three trains, only two.

Duane's data would disagree. Plus if you look through all the photos, you will see red white and blue trains.

http://www.rcdb.com/34.htm

Chang! I'm talking about Chang, you linked to an entry on GASM!

Mamoosh said:

Coasterhound36 said:
Man, its a good thing that Im not married to any of you...

You're not my type. I prefer masculine men.

Mamoosh, dont worry...Ive turned better men than you at the Eagle, Faultline, Mother Lode, and Gold Coast.

Coasterhound36 said:
Man, its a good thing that Im not married to any of you...When the going gets tough you bail out on a situation.

Me too. You'd hold on to things long after their usefulness and cost us a lot of time and money in the process.

I want a prenup.

Lord Gonchar said:

Coasterhound36 said:
Man, its a good thing that Im not married to any of you...When the going gets tough you bail out on a situation.

Me too. You'd hold on to things long after their usefulness and cost us a lot of time and money in the process.

I want a prenup.

Fine...But if Im giving you a pre-nup, then I want a Sony 3D television as a wedding present!

Where should GASM go? The scrap yard.

At some point, people have to accept that metal fatigue overwhelms financial resources. Period. As for wooden coasters, you never stop building them.

However, with these big steelies, its like a cancer, and after enough fighting, well, you have to draw the line. A ride like BBW in Virginia developed major track issues, and the cost of bringing in a barge to weld cracks, and then begin replacing sections becomes cost prohibitive.

2 Arrow coasters that have performed well, the Loch Ness Monster and Gemini, were installed properly, not rushed, and their owners are fine with making repairs year after year. Smaller coasters like CP's Corkscrew have developed some track issues, but since the stress on the structure is much less then GASM, the welding can be done without much fanfare, with on site equipment.

The GASM is an example of old Arrow technology, pushing standard materials to the brink of their tolerance. A coaster that size had to have its track bolted, then welded. The track was also welded to the columns. Dismantling this coaster for another location would basically destroy the precision engineering during re-assembly. That coaster the Del Grossos is a fine example of a ride that is going nowhere anytime soon.

The sad part in all of this is that these rides are only running seasonally. The Disney parks are always replacing track. You never see it. Its called 'rehab'. Wear and tear 7 days a week year round is tremendous. Can you imagine what the Matterhorn track would look like after 55 years?

If you have an Arrow as your major attraction...Steel Phantom or Dragon Mountain, you make the repairs, put out the money, deal with it. If you are SFNJ, with a dozen other coasters, the amount needed to rebuild that entire track, that is throwing bad money that could be diverted to their other projects.

Everything eventually wears out. That's what has grounded Anton's coasters, now its Arrow, Vekoma is not far behind, with Pinfari, for example who is out of business, and no one wants to make the promise that their replacement track's welds will hold. Don't worry, B&M's will also go kaput one day, and we will read about it again.

Can you believe it, Nitro is closing? Its all the same steel.

I am very afraid it is going to the scrap yard. I don't really see more than 5-10 years left in this coasters life span if moved elsewhere. And moving a coaster this big with only 5-10 years left in it's lifespan doesn't make sense. About the trains I am wondering if there's any parks actually looking for 3rd Gen Arrow Looper Trains. Their Best bet is to use them for parts on their Arrow's and Vekoma's that use them still.

It's sad to be seeing these old Arrows go 20 years ago Arrows were all the rage in Steel Coasters, before B&M stormed the scene with their very smooth coasters. I grew up in that time loving the Orient Express at Worlds of Fun and I thought it was one of the best rides around. I still do think that way as it was unique and wasn't all about loops ether. The 1999 incident on the Orient Express was probably the final coffin nail to bring the era of the Corkscrew Type Coasters to the end. The very last Arrow Corkscrew Type Coaster built was the Tennessee Tornado at Dollywood and that ride does see heavy use (Used almost daily from April-December) so who knows how many years are left in her.

Can you believe it, Nitro is closing? Its all the same steel.

What? Why was that tacked on the end? A joke, I hope.

Coasterhound36 said:
Riddler's Revenge is a bit jerky...

Are you kidding me?? I LOVED that ride my fav stand up ever! Smooth as glass every time I rode it :)
You want jerky let me introduce you to Mantis :(

Jo
Lifetime Raptor flights: 2231 :)

Agent Johnson said:
Can you believe it, Nitro is closing? Its all the same steel.

I agree with everything you said...up until this point. Steel is a complex alloy, and not all steel is the same. Remember the Japanese cars back in the 70s? They used to rust away to nothing in 5-6 years. That doesn't happen anymore, because the steel used today is far superior to what was used just a few decades ago.

King Cobra lasted only 17 years because that steel was forged in Japan. Its two counterparts continue to operate today because that track was manufactured here in the states. So no, not all steel is the same.

I know B&Ms won't last forever, but I do expect them to last much longer than Arrow coasters. Different compounds, different building methods--longer lifespan.

While not a looper but we are on page three talking about ~20 year old big arrow coasters and Magnum wasn't brought up.

Magnum has had many repairs. Tom Rebbie once told me that "you never stop building a wooden coaster". I am sure Ron Toomer would tell you the same.

I do theorize that B&M's may last somewhat longer may be true, due to newer engineering, but with spring loaded wheel boogies, there could be more wear and tear than expected. But since I can't see into the furture, I won't subject them to the landfill pile just yet.

Thats why you should enjoy them while you can today.

They're not all destined for the scrap heap but at some point a decision has to be made to either refurbish it, retire it, or in the case of Kennywood, replace half and refurbish the other half. I would think that Magnum is popular enough that CP would be willing to invest in the repair or replacement it needs to keep it running. It all depends on the park and the coaster, and it doesn't matter if it's an Arrow, a Schwarzkopf, a Togo, or something else.

Look at Shock Wave at SFOT. It's a popular, high profile ride in a park that doesn't have many loopers. SF decided to refurbish that one despite its difficult location. I'm hopeful when the time comes, they will make a similar decision for Georgia.

I see something major happening with Vortex in the very near future. CF is going to have to decide to do some extensive refurbishing or retire it.

The Votex decision has also been made. Let's be a little more clear to you. In 5-7 yrs, if you want to ride a nice big Arrow looper, here is what will be left.....Dragon Mountain, LNMonster, the Dollywood Tornado, and maybe the Darien Lake Viper,

Jeffery,I have to disagree with you on the Phantom's Revenge example because the section of Arrow Track for the First drop and up the hill had to be replaced because it was getting worn out. That section was replaced with Morgan Track. The only remaining Sections of Arrow Track left on her is the Final Brake Run through the top of the Lift Hill. That is a section that doesn't take as much abuse let alone it would cost more to replace. So pretty much the Arrow Section of Phantom's Revenge is dead.

That's pretty much what I meant by refurbishment. They didn't tear it down, they kept the structure and replaced the track. Whether they replaced it with Morgan, Arrow or Hopkins track, it doesn't matter, I consider that a refurbishment. Lots of coasters have had some of their track replaced, and not necessarily by the same manufacturer: SFOT's Mine Train, SFOG's Mine Train, Canobie's Corkscrew, Magnum, MK's Space Mountain, the list goes on. I consider all those refurbishments

Agent Johnson said:
The Votex decision has also been made. Let's be a little more clear to you. In 5-7 yrs, if you want to ride a nice big Arrow looper, here is what will be left.....Dragon Mountain, LNMonster, the Dollywood Tornado, and maybe the Darien Lake Viper,

Is this conjecture based on age, or do you have some inside knowledge to the decisions that Six Flags and Cedar Fair are going to make?

If so how do you know what CF is going to do? No one knows what Kinzel is going to do tomorrow--not even Kinzel. :)

I still think Viper @ Darien Lake is a really fun ride. I am not familiar with too many other Arrows (nor old ones)... Viper was built in '82 and I think it rides fantastic. I would say the 2 transitions into the (batwing?) can whip your head a little bit, but I don't think that has anything to do with fatigue of the ride.

Nope. It's that "coat-hanger" engineering.

Actually Ron Toomer said at Coastermania (I think it was like ten years ago) that he thought their rides could be around indefinitely. Granted, he didn't qualify that statement with something like, "For a price," but still. Not sure the coat hanger guy knew for sure.

My former wife would often yell out on some Arrow rides, "Damn you, Ron Toomer!"