If The Scream Machine Must Go, Then Where?

If it wasn't a Marvel license, I think Green Goblin would be a good theme for a stand up coaster.

Time and the technology has just passed them by.

One interesting little tidbit they give you on the BGW coaster tour is about doing footers when installing the coasters.

They take you down by LNM's loops where you can see LMN, Alpengiest and Griffon and explain some of the differences.

The one that stuck with me was that with LMN the manufacturer specified that putting footers within 6 feet of where they were designed was acceptable. By the time Alpengeist was built the manufacturer specified they had to be within 1/8th of an inch. And in the years between Alpie and Griffon that variance was reduced to 1/16th of an inch.

Just shows how far ahead what someone like B&M is doing now (and continue to push ahead) compared to what Arrow was doing 30 years ago.

In hindsight, their lifespan doesn't seem so unreasonable. It'll be interesting to see how long today's coasters hold up.

*)(()& Over its guest? Its going to the scrap heap and theres nothing you can do about it. ITS WORN OUT! as have many older arrows been removed in recent years for this reason and this reason alone.

Chang is a stellar coaster, When running three trains it will be a capacity whore and serve the park well.

Chang will be Unique to the east coast.

On top of that Chang is slightly used for its age. Much of the time it only ran one train at a time. Its a very good coaster, Im not a big stand up fan but Id take chang any day of the week over the WEAK Superman flyer.

Get over it, deal with it, (*(*& Happens.

Charles Nungester said:
When running three trains...

I didn't know that was allowed at Six Flags parks. ;)

Lord Gonchar said:
The one that stuck with me was that with LMN the manufacturer specified that putting footers within 6 feet of where they were designed was acceptable.

I hope you mean 6 inches!

No, I mean 6 feet.

Maybe the tourguide meant inches...

Nah...too easy ;)

I rode Scream Machine in '93 when it was a mere 4 years old and thought it was crap! Rode it every year after that and my opinion didnt change (masochistic tendencies, you see). Anyhow, I love when these coasters are sentenced to death you get fans coming out of the woodwork proclaiming greatness. Really? Remember the Drachen Fire fiasco? I would have paid Busch Gardens $20 to get rid of it after my first ride.

Get over it, deal with it, (*(*& Happens.

So then I guess you're over us having your Flyers at Carowinds then?

Charles Nungester said:

Chang is a stellar coaster, When running three trains it will be a capacity whore and serve the park well.

Im not a big stand up fan but Id take chang any day of the week over the WEAK Superman flyer.

B&M Stand up, capacity whore? Nah, it must be sarcasm. It will however boost attendance and provide good marketing. Not a soul will know it was from KK.

Superman really should just be station, lift, pretzel loop, repeat.

Why don't we trade superman for chang? Leave gasm alone. Lose the otsr's and she would be a good ride.

I'm sure many non-enthusiasts won't even remember that GAdv once HAD a stand-up, ShockWave. That was there in the days when I had just become a coaster nut (opened in '90, closed in '92, and I started paying attention to this stuff in the late 80's,) and I was intimidated by it and never rode.

That stand up was super painful and you didn't miss much! The old Six Flags rotating ride program toured that thing around but I got to ride it at SFAW. Not much of a fan of stand ups and happen to love Arrow Loopers so sad to see this happening.

With parks taking serious cost cutting measures you'd think it would make business sense for S&S to make some train upgrades to allow the parks to improve and remarket the rides. Lap bar retrofit, backpack style shoulder harnesses to be more comfy, or a sound system that only plays 80s music. It's fanboy wishful thinking on my part and a marketing headache for the parks but I'd love it! With Jeff pointing out the 3 Arrow trains on for sale, sadly it looks GASM will be taken out back and shot for scrap metal.

IIRC Chang did not have three trains, only two. Of course SF could purchase another, but I doubt if it would make any difference. Standups are slow to load and three train operation would likely not improve capacity. When was the last time Mantis ran three trains?

Even when Medusa/Bizzaro runs three trains, they often stack. It's not due to the ride operators but rather lethargic patrons who take their good sweet time unloading, loading and exiting the ride platform.

Tekwardo said:

Get over it, deal with it, (*(*& Happens.

So then I guess you're over us having your Flyers at Carowinds then?

Zing!

Man, its a good thing that Im not married to any of you...When the going gets tough you bail out on a situation. So are you all saying that any ride over 20 years old and rough around the edges should be put out to pasture? Well then prepare to say goodbye to the ORIGINAL Batman in 2012 because that will be its 20th year of operation. Lets not forget that Six Flags Over Texas didnt scrap the Giant - instead its getting a "makeover"...and its 20 years old and bruised one of my ribs in 2008. Would most of you have ridden it again without its current rehab? Most assuredly, yes. Im one of the biggest fans of all things Bolliger & Mabillard, but EVEN THEY are not 100% fool proof and 100% smooth rides. Riddler's Revenge is a bit jerky as is Iron Wolf. And if Six Flags should do away with all things Arrow, then I guess we can say goodbye to all three Ninja coasters that Six Flags owns ?

No, we're saying that a 20-year-old Arrow ride that was rough from the start should be out to pasture. You're projecting.

Coasterhound36 said:
Man, its a good thing that Im not married to any of you...

You're not my type. I prefer masculine men.

And we're not all saying that. I think GASM could have been given a new lease on life with new trains that did away with the OTSHs. But there may be more to it than that. Ever since the Orient Express incident, I think everyone is a little leery of old Arrow coasters. We don't know what's going on inside those rails. Perhaps the park knows that after time these large aggressive Arrow coasters may start to lose structural integrity, and they just need to be retired.

Also, like Jeff said, there's no reason for you to project. B&M coasters will probably survive much longer than their Arrow counterparts. Claude and Walter were both metallurgists before getting into the ride designing business.

BTW, two of the three Ninja coasters you mentioned are from Vekoma.

Just out of interest, have any Arrow/Vekoma loopers in the US had their rolling stock replaced in favour of scrapping the ride? I've tried the Kumbak trains and the new Vekoma trains (on new rides, and 80s loopers) and the result is great.

OK...it's not B&M floorless smooth or anything but it has certainly given the rides a new lease of life.

Guess it's not an option in this case - that said, I wonder if it was considered.

Also - not trying to start anything...but with there are still a couple of Arrow loopers in the chain, you'd think they would send them elsewhere to keep their rides going? I think some bits from Shockwave went to Viper?

Jeffrey Seifert said:
IIRC Chang did not have three trains, only two.

Duane's data would disagree. Plus if you look through all the photos, you will see red white and blue trains.

http://www.rcdb.com/34.htm

Personally, I think the Arrow tech just couldn't scale. You look at something like Cedar Point's Corkscrew, the first triple looper or something, and it seems to be doing OK. I suspect most of the stock Corkscrew clones in the world are still operating. But none of the bigger rides have really been able to go the distance. Look how many had to be significantly modified. It's telling that Demon outlasted Shockwave at SFGAm.