I 305 gets trim on the first drop

Fix the wheel compound, remove the trims, add the vest restraints they were testing, and suddenly KD has the worlds most intense and in my opinion best ride.

I can dream I guess.... But that really seems like the solution that makes everyone happy. The ride isn't rough except for the shoulder bars, the speed was perfect, and the intensity was amazing. I don't know of anyone that rode it and then didn't ride it ever again because it was too intense....

Maybe some people couldn't ride it 3-4 times in a row... But is that really a must? At more popular parks such a quick reride scenario couldn't even happen so that's a dumb argument.

Jeff said:
For the record, I've not seen any real proof that anyone "blacked out." Grey-out is not the same, though I can see why a lot of people might not be fond of those kinds of feelings.

I think we have been confusing Blackout with G-LOC.

Personaly, I experienced grey-outs.

According to this user's trip report, his daughter blacked out and maybe even had G-LOC.

Grey-out, where the vision loses hue, easily reversible on levelling out.

Tunnel vision, where peripheral vision is progressively lost.

Blackout, a loss of vision while consciousness is maintained, caused by a lack of blood to the head.

Redout, a reddening of the vision while consciousness is maintained, caused by an excess of blood to the head.

G-LOC a loss of consciousness ("LOC" stands for "Loss Of Consciousness").

Death, if g-forces are not quickly reduced, death can occur.

Uh-oh. Here we go with the colors again... ;)

Here's my issue with the grey-out intensity (or whatever may be going on for most people.) On the way onto this ride folks will pass several signs that will remind them that they should not ride if they have any kind of health concern/condition. It's pretty clear the onus is on the guests to make sure they're in the right condition to ride this coaster.

And then, on the first drop there is this sustained not-quite-dizzy/blackout-but-certainly-not-normal sensation that comes over them. And for some reason, it's expected that everyone is just supposed to know that's normal for this ride and they don't have any other issues going on that might mean they shouldn't be riding it. I think that's unreasonable for most people.

I would even go so far as to predict that should the circumstance arise that someone has a health issue of some kind on this coaster, the same people ranting about the dumb GP who don't understand this grey-out concept will be the first to rant about the dumb GP who shouldn't have been riding because of their "condition" in the first place.

So yeah, it's on each person to decide if this coaster is something they think they can handle. But if enough people think it's in their best interest to pass, then everyone loses in the long run.

Well, the apparently short lines would seem to suggest that many are passing. I say apparent because I was only there one day and everything else I've heard has been second hand.

I think Carrie's point is an important one regarding the signage. I tend to think the fact that virtually every ride has some signage warning about intensity leads most guests to assume it's like any other intense ride. In the five-point ratings systems, for instance, most everything of any intensity at all rates a five. So the ratings lose all relevance, and the guest ends up LESS informed...

Hell, I think the elevators in the Eiffel Towers are a four rating.

It's weird to think about how much I enjoyed the ride, even if I couldn't really take repeated laps. It didn't occur to me at the time that, hey, maybe this is too much for most people.

I too, enjoyed it. But on the first Saturday of operation (Friday was opening day), I got 4 rides and probably waited a total of 1.5 hours.

Exactly, Gator. I don't even look at those signs anymore because I'm absolutely fine riding anything with the maximum 5-point rating. How am I, or anyone for that matter, to know that this one that actually goes to 11?

EDIT: Actually, I do read the signs when it's something I've never ridden.

I suspect the problem isn't necessarily just that people don't understand this one goes to 11, but rather that it goes to 11 in the first place.

Quite frankly, the thought of 'greying out' is not appealing to me in the slightest and I'd never stick my kids on a ride that would deliver such an experience.

And I'm a reasonable guy who understands the lack of danger andhas a family full of coaster enthusiasts. I can only imagine what a turn off it is to the average once-a-year park goer.

There are many kids out there who's bodies have not yet fully developed, and those kids have much less strength and awareness as fully grown adults. Wait! Let me fix that. Some of us are fully grown but not yet adults yet. Thats better. I cant imagine all these young kids ridding this coaster in the july and august heat. Its just not something I want to think about, but its reality nevertheless.

Yeah, what I was getting at was not so much that people won't understand the warnings, but that the existance of the warnings makes the individual responsible for assessing his/her ability to ride. And when grey-outs exist by design, I think that makes it harder to assess.

In other words, how is one supposed to know the difference between the natural response to the g-force and perhaps their own blood pressure problem...particularly when the symptom is the same? I think it's completely reasonable that the average person would rather pass than take the risk.

I'm suprised nobody has mentioned Shockwave at SFOT yet. For years, it was the known coaster to cause MINOR grey-outs in that second loop. Since it's tough to not love an Anton coaster like that (great lapbars, beautifully calculated loops, airtime, etc.) no one ever complained much. Plus the rest of the ride is air city. (edit - REAL air time too! Not the rip off your head while stapled to your seat kind...)

That and Mindbender at SFOG. But, the "Grey-Out" isn't as bad or as long on those. At least not for me. I get about as much on those as I do on Millennium Force.

CoasterDemon said:
Since it's tough to not love an Anton coaster like that (great lapbars, beautifully calculated loops, airtime, etc.) no one ever complained much.

Yeah, that's exactly why there's been no complaints or attempts to tame it - it's an Anton.

For real, dude?

My guess is that it's a pretty rare occurance and thus a non-issue.

I'm quite surprised at how many of you talk about greying out on this coaster or that one. I'm closing in on 400 coasters over the past 10 years and I've never once experienced anything that seemed even close to a G-related mindfark.

LG: I have on a couple of occasions. But previously, I just attributed them to hunger/dehydration (for the record, one was an Invertigo, the other was namtaB). Both of those came at the bottom of vertical loop were I started to see "stars".

Sure enough, my first ride on I-305, I saw those same stars. Now granted, before that day it had been two years + that I'd been on a coaster, but I had had no problems with Volcano before I-305 nor FoF afterwards. I got off feeling "intimidated". The ride is (was?) vicious, but in a good way IMHO.

But I felt it was going to be a bit much for the masses. The line for the ride was walk on even at a time when Volcano was 45min-hour. And unlike say SRoS @ SFA, you didnt see very many, if any, ready to hop right back in line.

BTW: Gonch, are you the type who is suceptible to "getting up too fast" adnd getting lightheaded? I am, so maybe that has something to do with. Perhaps that's the downside to having 'low-range-of-normal' blood pressure.

I've consistently had very minor gray outs on Millennium Force since the beginning, lasting maybe a second and a half. I don't lose vision, and wouldn't even describe it as tunnel vision the way I would on I-305. More of a fuzzy edge vision. :)

@Gonch You must have one of those non-enthusiast grease free circulitory systems. :)

@Jeff That's about what I get too. Before I-305, I'd say my biggest experience with grey-out is on Goliath at Magic Mountain.

Goliath and Titan I kinda understand in that the forces are sustained. I305, shorter duration but probably somewhat higher range.

I think the Antons have higher PEAK forces, but the duration is relatively short - speaking for 'Bender and the 'Wave. The helix on Bender is pretty aggresive, but because of the elevation change (i.e., the infamous third loop), the force varies considerably. Same can be said for the helix on BGT's Scorpion.

So all in favour for a revamp of I305, say I! Just kidding, but I personally would like to see it done.

The rush was unbelievable, easily topping that of when I did a backflip out of an airplane.... Seriously.

It was the best feeling in the world. Bring it back!