I 305 gets trim on the first drop

"A perfectly healthy person could be seriously injured or killed by a blackout experience."

Yea I'd like to hear your source on that one___ and don't say Edward Markey.

I think AJFelice meant that someone blacking out at the beginning of a roller coaster could lead to being seriously injured... could, that could be true in some circumstances

If anyone blacked out at the wrong moment where ever they may be, there is potential for them to be seriously injured or even ...KILLED!

Read an article about syncope which is a medical term for blackout. Heart failure is a key issue when someone has a blackout.

LostKause, you are right, but you took my point out of context. It's true at any wrong moment someone could be injured or killed by a blacking out. My point was that in this case, I305, KD was taking a preventive measure so a situation likely involving a lawsuit can be virtually eliminated on their ride. Do they need an issue like let's say Mission Space?

Trims disappoint me as much as the rest of us, but KD needs to take the necessary measures to ensure the safety and comfort of all of their riders.

But...people are still graying out...

The problem with the idiocy of this trimming is that it addresses the wrong problem. The average Schwarzkopf Wildcat pulls 4 G's, more than this ride does at any point. It's the duration of the forces that are the issue, and the only way to "fix" that is to not have a turn that long.

Here is a hypothetical question for you...

Intimidator 305 uses a cable lift similar to Millennium Force, right? Presumably with a catch-car that extends over the drop until the center of the train gets past the peak.

What if the lift mechanism were designed so that instead of using an overrunning clutch to attach the train to the lift, the lift positively clamped to the last car, pushed the train to the top, and then released with a mechanical trip release when the last car got over the peak? In other words, the lift mechanism were designed to dangle the entire train over the peak, perhaps even stopping at the top momentarily, then drop the whole train from the top of the lift? What kind of reaction would that get? Of course that would reduce the top speed a little, partly because the train would be starting from a dead stop, but mostly because the train's center of mass would be half a train length down from the hill peak before it started accelerating.

Now what would the reaction be if such a design were retrofitted onto the ride?

(personally I think it would be a cool thing to do. I also think it would be well-received if part of the original design, but would be ridiculed if it were added on. Go figure.)

--Dave Althoff, Jr. <- Has not ridden either Intimidator.

Yea, the pause on Griffon is one of the coolest parts of the ride. Really gets the crowds screaming.

I've probably been one of the most outspoken haters of the ride-ruining trims, but I really like the catch car idea. It would be suspenseful, probably allow more speed than the current 80mph, and allow a free falling feeling for the riders. I don't ever see this actually happening but it's fun to imagine.

Once the wheels are fixed MAYBE they will go away, but I'm not getting my hopes up since people clearly don't understand greyouts and get freaked out by them...

Here's hoping that the worlds most intense roller coaster will return eventually....

RollrCoastrCrazy said:

....but I'm not getting my hopes up since people clearly don't understand greyouts and get freaked out by them...

Do you understand greyouts? They aren't a figment of the imagination. They are the body's response to there being too little oxygen in the brain. You may think they're cool to experience, but they significantly increase the medical risk of riding a coaster. I can't imagine any park wanting that for the majority of their riders.

RollrCoastrCrazy said:
It would be suspenseful, probably allow more speed than the current 80mph, and allow a free falling feeling for the riders.

But speed is the problem. Why make it go faster?

The more I keep thinking about the issues surrounding this ride, the more I am leaning towards Jeff's last reply to the topic. I would agree that the soul problem with Intimidator 305 is the turn following the drop. Millennium Force comes out of the positive G's almost as fast as it goes into them. Intimidator 305 does not! Greying out or blacking out is a serious problem that cannot be ignored. It actually worries me when I think about a young kid on a hot July day, dehydrated and fatigued or exhausted exposing him/herself to the intensity of I305.

I love the suggestion made by RideMan, I think its a clever solution, but maybe not so probable.

I like Rideman's suggestion too. The trims keep the train from falling freely, which is a distraction. The dangling the train over the edge of the lift" method would allow for the train to go the speed that it is supposed to go after it is released.

Jeff has a very interesting observation that I believe has been somewhat overlooked throughout most of this post. The cause of the gray out is due to the length of time the positive G force occurs during the first curve. It is a design flaw, imho. The only way to really fix the problem is to redesign the curve to be "less tight", for lack of a better phrase.

They could straighten out the drop so that it runs close to the ground in a straight line after the drop, much like Phantom's Revenge at Kennywood. After that newly added section of track, a wider curve would be necessary in order to get meet with the second hill. That may be a fix. There is still positive Gs for a long period of time, but they would be less forceful, if I am thinking about this the right way.

That'll probably never happen, by the way. Why would they redesign the layout when it would be cheaper and easier to keep the trims on the ride?

It's a pretty big disappointment, if you ask me.

LostKause said:
The cause of the gray out is due to the length of time the positive G force occurs during the first curve. It is a design flaw, imho. The only way to really fix the problem is to redesign the curve to be "less tight", for lack of a better phrase.

Or a smaller first drop.

It's too fast for the radius of the turn and creates excessive sustained G's. You either expand the radius of the turn or slow the train down.

But you're right, it's poor design - which is exactly what I was talking long before these trims were even rumored, let alone a reality. :)

Lord Gonchar said:

It's too fast for the radius of the turn and creates excessive sustained G's. You either expand the radius of the turn or slow the train down.

Except the train has already been slowed down by 15mph, and people are still graying out.

Yeah, that's my point... I don't think you can slow the train down enough to fix the "problem."

Glad I got on it before it was neutered as well. :)

Could someone please point me to the literature that proves g-force related greyouts are at all dangerous? I think this is one of the most controlled g-force maneuvers ever and that Intamin probably knew it was going to be extremely intense but not dangerous, its identical every single cycle.

The trims don't solve the greyouts completely anyways, instead leaving you in the vertical g's for a longer time as it makes its way around.

If the wheels get fixed and the trims remain KD has ruined the worlds most intense coaster for no reason, but sadly the general public only knows what they hear from us or the Kings Dominion facebook page.

RollrCoastrCrazy said:
If the wheels get fixed and the trims remain KD has ruined the worlds most intense coaster for no reason, but sadly the general public only knows what they hear from us or the Kings Dominion facebook page.

But if the GP doesn't realize anything is up then there's no harm, right?

Isn't this the kind of enthusiast elitism that makes us generally seem like complete tools?

I prefer Craftsmen. :)

Takes a tool to know a tool. ;)