How Can Steel Dragon 2000 be faster Than Millenniu
How can Steel Dragon 2000 be faster than Millenium Force? Millenium Force is only 6 feet shorter than SD2000, and yet it goes 95 mph compared to MF's 93 mph.
MF is steeper than SD2000, and the lift pushes the train over the top faster due to the elevator lift system. So shouldn't the speeds of these two gigacoasters be about the same speed?
I mean shouldn't MF's elavator lift and +10 degrees of angle on the drop account for the extra six feet that SD2000 has on MF?
MF is steeper than SD2000, and the lift pushes the train over the top faster due to the elevator lift system. So shouldn't the speeds of these two gigacoasters be about the same speed?
I mean shouldn't MF's elavator lift and +10 degrees of angle on the drop account for the extra six feet that SD2000 has on MF?
Steepness has no effect on the gravitational pull. It could be a 90 degree angle. It isn't getting any faster. Gravity pulls as so many feet per second & reaches maximum velocity at a certain height (I can't recall my physics stats right now... been 8yrs since high school!), and those extra feet help gain the extra momentum it needs.
The laws of physics apply here, and doesn't really matter if the lift pushes the train over the first hill... it makes very little difference.
The laws of physics apply here, and doesn't really matter if the lift pushes the train over the first hill... it makes very little difference.
The coasters probably average 93.5 or so. The lift of MF adds maybe 1 MPH if that, and the only thing with the angle of decent has to do with it, is if it is steeper, you might have less friction. With a full train on MF, it probably goes 94 if it is all warmed up and has a nice full train. SD2K probably goes 95 under the same conditions. That 6 feet can make a difference. Also if you look at SD2K's trains, they are bigger and more bulky, so they probably weigh more than MF's. That is another factor.
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MF Drops-15
SOB Rides-2
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MF Drops-15
SOB Rides-2
Actually, steepness should have a lot to do with speed because the steeper the hill, the less track traveled, the smaller amount of friction encountered between the top and bottom...So it must be the trains...perhaps wind drag? Weight?
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Decisions determine destiny; Destiny determines decisions.
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Decisions determine destiny; Destiny determines decisions.
It also has to do with the temperature and humidity. They have clocked MF at like 100 mph on a really humid day and I think maybe even more than that on a wet day. Who cares about the 2 mph faster or the 6 feet hieght steel dragon has on MF
In opionon the steeper the drop the better and therefore MF is better.
In opionon the steeper the drop the better and therefore MF is better.
JORDON DUNHAM said:
"It also has to do with the temperature and humidity. They have clocked MF at like 100 mph on a really humid day and I think maybe even more than that on a wet day. Who cares about the 2 mph faster or the 6 feet hieght steel dragon has on MF"
Ok, unless Sandusky Ohio doesn't obey the laws of physics(though I'd think that sometimes), Millennium Force CANNOT go 100 mph! Also, the elevator lift doesn't add squat to the max speed of MF. Even if the elevator lift went 90 mph, MF would still go 93. Thats just the way that gravity works. Janfrederick makes an interesting point, but I think that since friction is so low on both Intamin and Morgan Coasters, it won't make much of a difference.
I don't see why lift speed wouldn't affect the maximum speed. When something drops, it accelerates. The rate of acceleration is the same all the way down. If you start at a faster speed, the coaster will be going faster at the bottom. Or am I completely wrong? It's been quite a while since I took physics!
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Decisions determine destiny; Destiny determines decisions.
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Decisions determine destiny; Destiny determines decisions.
not if the track is damp at in anyway. It's like you sliding down a firepole when your dry and then doing it while you are wet. It reduces friction between the train wheels and the track itself. And anyways , I thought MF went like 96 mph instead of 93mph
But wait a minute, The Hulk rollercoaster has a fast lift (launch) up, right? so the coaster train STARTS the drop at a faster speed than a regular coaster does it not?
So if MF's lift is faster (almost like a slow launch) then wouldn't it make it go faster? Like would it not 'start dropping at a faster speed?'
Thats the logic I came up with..
So if MF's lift is faster (almost like a slow launch) then wouldn't it make it go faster? Like would it not 'start dropping at a faster speed?'
Thats the logic I came up with..
Velocity at time t (in feet per second) = -32t + initial velocity (i.e. lift hill speed)
Please note this doesn't take friction into account. Perhaps someone else can enlighten us on this. *** This post was edited by BreakersBoy on 3/9/2001. ***
Please note this doesn't take friction into account. Perhaps someone else can enlighten us on this. *** This post was edited by BreakersBoy on 3/9/2001. ***
*My husband is an Advanced Placement Physics teacher*
This is all due to friction and air resistance: friction between the wheels and the track, and the air resistance on the trains, how freely the wheels rotate, the mass of the train, etc. When the "official" speed was measured, SD could have been having a better day than when MF was measured. A bit of water on the track would decrease the friction, thus, increase the speed, for instance. *** Note too that Steel Dragon is at a higher ELEVATION than Millenium Force, thus less air resistance to begin with. ***
The angle of the drop will affect the speed: yes, the steeper the angle the less the friction and the faster the speed.
The speed of the lift will affect the ride because it is starting out from that initial velocity, rather than zero.
Those little factors can really add up quickly, and there can be more variability than you would think overall.
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LESS than 20 votes until the new POLL! *** This post was edited by CrystalKat on 3/9/2001. ***
This is all due to friction and air resistance: friction between the wheels and the track, and the air resistance on the trains, how freely the wheels rotate, the mass of the train, etc. When the "official" speed was measured, SD could have been having a better day than when MF was measured. A bit of water on the track would decrease the friction, thus, increase the speed, for instance. *** Note too that Steel Dragon is at a higher ELEVATION than Millenium Force, thus less air resistance to begin with. ***
The angle of the drop will affect the speed: yes, the steeper the angle the less the friction and the faster the speed.
The speed of the lift will affect the ride because it is starting out from that initial velocity, rather than zero.
Those little factors can really add up quickly, and there can be more variability than you would think overall.
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Po!nt of View: A different look at Roller Coasters.
http://www.crosswinds.net/~justmayntz/thrills/index.html
LESS than 20 votes until the new POLL! *** This post was edited by CrystalKat on 3/9/2001. ***
Dawg Byte said:
"Steepness has no effect on the gravitational pull...
The laws of physics apply here, and doesn't really matter if the lift pushes the train over the first hill... it makes very little difference."
Dawg Byte, I think you are completely insane, but I understand what you're saying. Yes, steepness has no effect on the pull of gravity, BUT steepness does determine the resultant speed the pull creates. Magnum XL-200 and Superman: ROS are roughly the same height, but S:ROS is steeper, and adds the extra 3 mph. The closer you are to vertical, the greater your speed is from droping at that angle. However, according to my agrument, Millennium Force should be faster than Steel Dragon, and from what we've been told, Steel Dragon is faster. I don't want to go into specifics, but I've been told that all of MF's "official" stats aren't true...
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Jes
Webmaster, Jes's Roller Coasters
http://www.jesms.cjb.net
where's RideMan when you need him?
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May the fleas of a 1000 camels infest your armpits for all eternity!!
Steel aint better, WOOD FOREVER!!!
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May the fleas of a 1000 camels infest your armpits for all eternity!!
Steel aint better, WOOD FOREVER!!!
but you have t look at the trains i was told that it has a lot to do eith how tight the wheels are to the track and look at supermans trains they have a different shape than magnum. the wind has a lot to do with it its just like when your on a coaster and your dropping you can feel the wind pushing against your face trains have that same effect.
I was thinking the same thing Sheik al Squeak.
By the way, the terminal velocity of MF if I remember corectly, is 97.6 or so. I think thats about what RideMan came up with when this type of topic came up over at GTTP.
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MF Drops-15
SOB Rides-2
By the way, the terminal velocity of MF if I remember corectly, is 97.6 or so. I think thats about what RideMan came up with when this type of topic came up over at GTTP.
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MF Drops-15
SOB Rides-2
It's all about the work-energy theory
Gravitational Potential Energy=(mass) X (acceleration due to gravity) X (height)
Using this along with Kinetic Energy= 1/2(mass)(velocity)^2 you can figure out the velocity of the object because PE=KE. These are not exact because you have to consider friction and air resistance. Maybe SD2000's trains are more massive along with the height advantage. These formulas will only give you a rough calculation, but they do give you a good idea. *** This post was edited by smoothncomfy on 3/9/2001. ***
Gravitational Potential Energy=(mass) X (acceleration due to gravity) X (height)
Using this along with Kinetic Energy= 1/2(mass)(velocity)^2 you can figure out the velocity of the object because PE=KE. These are not exact because you have to consider friction and air resistance. Maybe SD2000's trains are more massive along with the height advantage. These formulas will only give you a rough calculation, but they do give you a good idea. *** This post was edited by smoothncomfy on 3/9/2001. ***
Neglecting all friction, the peak speed for Steel Dragon would be 96 mph assuming that it comes over the top at about 5 mph. The peak speed for Millenium Force neglecting friction would be less than 1 mph slower assuming that MF comes over the top at about 12 mph. The actual speed will be reduced by mechanical friction and aerodynamic drag. Steel Dragon may have a slight aerodynamic advantage due to the high sides on the trains. However, the Intamin open sided trains provide more thrill.
Within the range of slopes that we are talking about here, the steepness probably doesn't make much difference. A steeper slope should result in slightly lower losses due to aerodynamic drag, but the longer high G pullout will tend to counteract this. Certainly a 10 degree slope would result in a lower top speed, but that's not what we have.
Wind, wind direction, humidity, barometric pressure, temperature, and bearing grease viscosity at the time of the measurement will also affect top speed. The accuracy of the measuring device will also affect the number obtained as will the needs of the park's public relations department.
I would think that the actual peak speed under similar conditions should be within 1 mph for the 2 coasters.
Within the range of slopes that we are talking about here, the steepness probably doesn't make much difference. A steeper slope should result in slightly lower losses due to aerodynamic drag, but the longer high G pullout will tend to counteract this. Certainly a 10 degree slope would result in a lower top speed, but that's not what we have.
Wind, wind direction, humidity, barometric pressure, temperature, and bearing grease viscosity at the time of the measurement will also affect top speed. The accuracy of the measuring device will also affect the number obtained as will the needs of the park's public relations department.
I would think that the actual peak speed under similar conditions should be within 1 mph for the 2 coasters.
Here are some other things.
Depending on height above Sea Level, gravity will vary slightly due to being closer ot father away from the center of Earths gravitational pull. Gravity is always varying depending on the earths position to other masses (remember the law, all masses in the universe have an effect on an object). These things of course will only effect the speed minimally.
Also, I think resistance caused by SD2K's bulky trains should slow it down, compared to the more open Trains on Millennium Force.
Depending on height above Sea Level, gravity will vary slightly due to being closer ot father away from the center of Earths gravitational pull. Gravity is always varying depending on the earths position to other masses (remember the law, all masses in the universe have an effect on an object). These things of course will only effect the speed minimally.
Also, I think resistance caused by SD2K's bulky trains should slow it down, compared to the more open Trains on Millennium Force.
Unless you work in Cedar Point management I can't see how this affects your life. Just ride MF and enjoy it, damnit!
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