How Bad Was The Great Escape Comet Butchered?
coasterdude318 said:
There absolutely is such a thing as one person's opinion being more valid than another's, and that's the point you continue to miss. Sorry if that's a blow to your obvious ego./\(pointing)Please point me to an instance in this thread where I said that someone's opinion was wrong. (you're saying that yours is more valid is also saying his was less valid, or wrong...)What I said was that it seems ridiculous for some people to have an opinion about something if that person has never experienced it. .....blablabla.....(pointing again)> I most certainly do believe my opinion is more valid than the opinion of someone who hasn't ridden the ride.
I can't believe that at twenty-something years of age, you still aren't smart enough to understand what an opinion is. C'mon nate, I know you have to be smarter than that!
Oh wow, you really are stalking me. Nobody could pay me enough to meet someone like you face to face.
Don't flatter yourself. I'm stalking mOOSH. And are you really so stuck on yourself to say something like that, but turn around and act all sissy-fied because you'd be to afraid to meet someone as harmless as me? I agree with Dave. And, yes, I guess that was a sexist comment.
It's "too", and do you think I really care?
Ah. Thats great! You found 1 spelling error. That's all you can point out? Thats rather pathetic. Oh, and you apparently cared enough to comment.
You're ego is too big to fit thru the the internet, nate. Like I said, I atleast respect the fact that you stand by your opinion, and aren't just saying all this because you want attention. You're no troll, I'll give you that. But boy do you think way to highly of yourself.
Rob Ascough said:
I would hardly refer to well-worded letters of opposition as harrassment or threats. Unless you know of a specific instance where someone conducted themselves in an inappropriate manner, there is nothing wrong with people voicing their opposition to something the park does. Enthusiasts are enthusiasts and they will always look at situations such as this with a critical eye but the point is they are also paying customers and therefore they have every right to object to something if they don't like it. I don't understand where anyone gets off on telling people what they should and should not do as long as the action being taken is reasonable and respectful.
Rob! I am truly worried about the "goal" of ACE's preservation efforts. I think that the Comet, and Phoenix, and for a lesser degree Wild One, and Skyliner (lakemont) Should have been the recipients of some ACE historical designation for being moved and saved. AND the preservation segment of ACE should have issued this designation, for preserving certain original design elements which make it one of a kind in todays coaster world. It appears that as soon as the Comet was well established at Great Escape, those interested in its preservation "walked away" and vanished into the distance, and only appeared again AFTER the park made changes.
Preservation should be PROOACTIVE, not REACTIVE. We have to let parks KNOW what we feel BEFORE they make changes. We need to back up our comments with facts. If a park is forced by an insurance agency to modify a ride or safety device they should feel comfortable consulting ACE's preservation people and ask them which style of modification is best to preserve the classic ride experience. Rather than to have to quietly modify a ride, and hope nobody sees it.
We live in a society where lawyers and Insurance companies run just about everything, we need a Preservation committee that has their feet firmly planted in nostalgia, and their heads in the reality of 2005.
SAM
TeknoScorpion said:
(you're saying that yours is more valid is also saying his was less valid, or wrong...)
"Less valid" does not mean "wrong." You're older than I am and obviously can't understand that. I know what an opinion is, and I also know it's ridiculous to try to claim your opinion is as valid as someone who has actual first-hand experience with what is being discussed.
And are you really so stuck on yourself to say something like that, but turn around and act all sissy-fied because you'd be to afraid to meet someone as harmless as me?
What else am I supposed to think when you post to threads that don't even concern you only to reply to me and post on Coasterbuzz about someone meeting me and that person's impressions of me less than a week after it happened? That's pretty bizarre, right? I'm not afraid to meet someone like you, I just think you're attention-starved and annoying as hell.
Ah. Thats great! You found 1 spelling error. That's all you can point out? Thats rather pathetic.
I pointed out many other things that you didn't have an answer for. At "twenty-something years of age", I at least know the difference between "to", "two", and "too".
Oh, and you apparently cared enough to comment.
I commented on the question you asked me, not on his post.
But boy do you think way to highly of yourself.
If believing that more knowledge is gained from first-hand experience than by reading about what others think is thinking highly of myself, then you're absolutely right.
-Nate
I agree with preservation being proactive and not reactive, but that is easier said than done. When decisions like this are made, they are either unannounced or the people that are made aware of them chose not to bring them to everyone's attention. Look at this situation from a park's point-of-view and it can be argued that it's their coaster and they can do whatever they want without having to consult anyone or any group.
But frankly this argument about enthusiasts being a small and insignificant blip on the radar is getting a little old. I'll admit that a thousand enthusiasts don't mean a lot when a park pulls in a million or so guests a year (which seems to be a rough average) but let's not forget the positive press that a group of coaster enthusiasts is able to generate. Enthusiasts spread the good word about places like Knoebels, Holiday World and The Great Escape since the addition of their wood coasters.
It's not like it's "all take and no give" when it comes to enthusiasts. Look at how many times have enthusiasts been contacted by parks for help! The help of photos from enthusiasts is what helped The Great Escape put the Comet back together when it was found that many parts weren't numbered when the coaster was dismantled at Crystal Beach. Holiday World went to enthusiasts for ideas for the Legend, leading to a design that most will argue is one of the best around. Enthusiasts single-handidly saved Leap the Dips- a coaster that would be a pile of rotting firewook right now. Enthusiasts raised the money. Enthusiasts organized the effort to get the ride rebuilt and reopened.
Argue the obsessive nature of some enthusiasts but many of these people eat, sleep and breathe roller coasters and they are a boundless source of information about these things. Why should that be ignored because a few individuals decide to conduct themselves in a manner that is completely unbecoming of not just enthusiasts but people in general?
People questioned the "need" for another enthusiast organization when we got rolling early in 2004, claiming that we were just another group of people wanting "special perks" from amusement parks. A pretty ignorant claim since most of our members are already members of countless other enthusiast organizations and are already entitled to ERT at events! What we originally set out to do (and continue to do) is stress the benefits of good wood coaster design- to proactively promote parks that understand the importance of good wood coasters with hopes that other parks will catch on. For example: I am very intent on promoting the Lakemont Skyliner in the next issue of our organization's publication. I feel it is a good ride that is maintained as such and I think that the park deserves to be noted for its effort. I understand that it had its bad years but the coaster I experienced a month ago was nothing short of exceptional and I truly believe that spreading the word can only be a good thing.
Is this all an uphill battle? Sure. Are some people always going to argue what we are trying to do? Absolutely. But I think there is something to be said for lavishing attention on a coaster while it's at the top of its game so that preservation efforts don't need to take place at all.
I agree, the Riverside Cyclone has been killed. You can actually SEE the origianl first drop UNDER the new one. It's actually kind of creepy.
Once I start seeing new track placed above the old track on The Comet, well THEN I'll be concerned.
The Coney Island Cyclone was preserved so why not discuss the preservation of other rides? I'm sure you would have been happy if Paragon Park, Revere Beach and Lincoln Park were all preserved, as I'd be happy if Olympic Park, Palisades Park and Bertrand Island were all preserved... or at least one of them! When excellent coasters such as the Phoenix, Comet and Skyliner are all preservation success stories, there is certainly a case for taking the matter seriously.
Now, as for the preservation of Hercules, I think you'll find very few people that would have supported that!
Rob Ascough said:
You can see the outline of the Wild One's original turnaround underneath the new one. Ditto for the double-dip on SFMM's Colossus- it rests underneath the mid-course brake.
I just found that out about Colossus recently. I was browsing through pics and all of a sudden I realized it.
I never knew that was the case on Wild One though. It's funny because when I was younger I had a rollercoaster book that showed the Wild One's original turn around. When I was looking through pics (after the change) a while back I was like, "What? That's not what it looks like!" I did some research and found it had been re-profiled.
Here in NJ, Bertrand Island was closed in 1984 and leveled not long after to make room for lakeside condos. Believe it or not, the condos took almost two decades to materialize! Palisades Park is now an apartment complex and I'm pretty sure Olympic Park is now retail development. I heard somewhere that the condos that replaced Paragon Park were a failure- is there any truth in that?
Rob Ascough said:
What we originally set out to do (and continue to do) is stress the benefits of good wood coaster design- to proactively promote parks that understand the importance of good wood coasters with hopes that other parks will catch on.
I agree that a proactive approach is a good one, and I wish you well with that. I think it's important for those who enjoy classic rides to recognize those parks who have classic coasters, who have kept them running, and who have continued to allow future generations to enjoy the same coasters their grandparents enjoyed. Other parks could catch on to your message, but even more importantly, many of the parks that have classic coasters could really use the publicity.
I'll admit that a thousand enthusiasts don't mean a lot when a park pulls in a million or so guests a year (which seems to be a rough average) but let's not forget the positive press that a group of coaster enthusiasts is able to generate.
But here's what I was getting at earlier: if the parks are no longer getting that positive publicity, enthusiasts really stop mattering (and can easily go from being friends to enemies). For example, let's look at Holiday World. The park (and the Raven) got years of free publicity from enthusiasts, but with the incident last summer came a lot of negative publicity. Thankfully, it doesn't seem to have hurt the park too much, but what if it had? It seems difficult now to imagine Holiday World ever hosting another enthusiast event. When enthusiasts trade in positive attention for negative, the parks have no reason to cater to them. The way a small group of enthusiasts acts can easily affect the way a park feels about the entire group. This is exactly why enthusiasts need to be careful if they really care about the "perks" they get from certain parks.
-Nate
*** Edited 11/4/2004 6:44:33 PM UTC by coasterdude318***
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