Holiday World 2015
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Here's some photos for you guys, on plunge's current state.
Back to the intamin conversation, intamin does hit the ball out of the park but let's think of it in baseball terms. Would you rather have Ryan Howard who hits 30+ hrs every yr and strikes out 100 times or Mike Trout who gives you consistent results. I just don't see them using intamin rn
Ah ha! I've got it.
They took out the plunge, but they're replacing it with an Intamin water coaster that has standard lift hills and an actual layout. Kind of like Divertical, but without the tower lift.
;-)
Rickrollercoaster said:
The dirt mounds and land clearing have advanced massively. Big holes have been dug out, footers are being set up by the dozens. They have wire frames just laying on the dirt ready to be lowered and others are already poured. It's a sight definitely.
Did you snap any pictures of the above?
Sadly, I couldn't get any pictures. To see the land you have to stand at the top of the stairs for the Hyena Falls half pipe slide known as laughs. When I finally got back to my phone and camera, the entrances to Splashin Safari were closed off as the park closed.
The 66daysatsea clues are getting shorter, and shorter.
The date of the landing at Plymouth Rock was December 21, so yeah, the days themselves were shorter and shorter...
Oranges and Limes anyone?
RCMAC said:
Can you possibly be saying that until a park builds an Intamin hyper coaster they don't know what they're doing? Or maybe they don't know what they're missing? …
Sure, every one of us enthusiasts would love to have an Expedition G Force in their home park. But what does the typical park goer know about that?
Kind of, yes I am. Parks take different approaches and a park that builds higher quality will nullify the advantage of parks with a larger coaster arsenal of record breakers or generic tamed down cookie cutter coasters. HW has already got a huge bang for their buck building what the GP is not supposed to like. Just because they are not asking for it or actively wanting it does not mean they will not like it. The reason why enthusiasts like what they do is because some thrills diminish with exposure and others have staying power. That is what you need to invest in. I don’t know how many times I have heard someone say the WI Dells coasters are better than VF, or Renegade is their favorite at VF, or they prefer an Anton to a Beemer. They would never think that before they ride, but quality speaks for itself.
Regarding XGF at your home park, I guess that is the main point. XGF and Bizzaro are the benchmark of quality steel. No one has picked that ball up. So either enthusiasts are wrong or parks are not learning. I am saying if you took those two rollercoasters and put them in HW you have the best amusement park in the world for all thrill seekers, not just enthusiasts. The GP won’t say the same as the rides are being built, but they will keep coming back after they ride.
Yes I know Intamin has a lot of problems. But if you take a look at their hypers, mini-hypers, and wood, it is really not that bad for what you get. Tainting your view of how good those rides are and how much trouble they are based on other products is not rational. You can call it taking it personal or something else, but it is not reality.
Intamin hits more than a couple out of the park. Their wood can’t miss if you ask for something good. Bizzaro and XGF are not hard to duplicate if you want that. I305 went too large for its area and ended with too much twisting and breaks. Keep that shorter with more air and you could easily have the new number one. Maverick tried to give the GP what they supposedly want with the inversions and the GP still likes MF better. Forget what you think the GP wants. Give them Bizzaro with 50% more airtime and dare them not to ride.
And maybe some companies besides Intamin can possibly build a number one too but not B&M. They never will. You have a chance with a few other companies. But with Intamin, if you have a decent location and the money, ask for a number one and it is guaranteed.
As for the comparisons with Walmart, I get the difference. I was asked how I would handle the situation in my life. I do travel for rollercoasters and I gamble on traveling for Intamins all the time. I don’t travel for B&M hypers anymore. While building a ride that may not work is a gamble, so is building a ride that may not bring guests back. Is it possible to build a ride that brings guests back without Intamin? Yes, but it costs more and is still not as effective as if you do it right with Intamin.
I am sure I will be happy with whatever HW builds and even if it is a Beemer I will keep coming for the wood. If it is B&M I hope it has inversion. B&M has built so many airtime hills and none of them are any good.
Well... Those are are valid points and I see where you're coming from.
It would be easy to insert here that enthusiasts have a higher opinion of their opinions than anyone else, but in Holiday World's case they've been known to actively involve enthusiasts in planning and have paid attention to wish lists from fans. And that was back when Will was with us, I haven't heard of anything like that happening this time.
I'd like to say that park planners and designers are very aware of what's out there, what they can get for their money, and what maintenance/safety issues are involved with products. Eventually, it gets down to being able to provide thrills to the customer (yes, where would they be without repeat business?) but provide those thrills with assured safety and reliability. I'd be willing to bet Cedar Fair, as keen as they are on giving us the latest thrills, has finally stepped away from Intamin for good. The icing on their cake, coaster-wise, has to be I-305. Doesn't it seem as if the park trusted the company to provide the worlds best coaster? Instead they got a ride that made customers ill and uncomfortable, which resulted in downtime, bandaid modifications (you didn't hear the enthusiasts crying over that?) then an off season rebuild. The ride is popular with guests, and highly rated, but this experienced enthusiast had the chance to ride two of its three incarnations (four, if you wanna count restraints) and I wasn't impressed by either.
Ive also held to the opinion, and there's no documentation whatsoever, that Behemoth was originally an Intamin ride and B&M was called in partway through the process after a deal went south, or the love affair was finally over. It's purely speculation on my part, but to me that ride carries some of the hallmarks of an Intamin ride and I've always kind of thought that the park's original intention was to not be sitting up there with two B&M hypers. In terms of planning and design, the timeline falls right onto the same calendar as other park's woes with Intamin products. But whatever- in the end it's all good. The customers are thrilled, the enthusiasts love it, and I'm sure Cedar Fair couldn't be happier. For whatever reason, B&M seems to be their go-to guys these days.
So, not to beat a dead horse, or unduly argue. I respect your opinion, and I'll agree that some of the best riding experiences of my life have been on good Intamin roller coasters. But I still believe that if anyone is hanging on to the hope that one will appear at Holiday World, they're only setting themselves up for a disappointment.
Parks want a quality ride that delivers in all aspects.
Nobody who knows how to run any business successfully is going to risk working with a company they already received a poor product from that has a shoddy record.
If Intamin wants to continue to work with parks, intamin needs to fix their issues.
Why would I buy a hotrod with issues when I can buy a luxury car for the same price or a little more and know I'm getting the best quality?
You act as if Intamin is the only company that can make a certain type if ride. That's simply not true.
Again, Mack just cloned the Megalite for a park. And Mack is not known for building rides with issues like Intamin.
This is just a shot in the dark, but what do you guy's think about a launched Maurer-Sohne X-Train?
RavenTTD said:
Tainting your view of how good those rides are and how much trouble they are based on other products is not rational.
Unless you want to live. And I'm only kind of kidding.
Seriously, what percentage of any park's guests, even super enthusiast destinations like Holiday World or Cedar Point, could distinguish between the ride given by a B&M and an Intamin? I have literally had friends standing next to me with whom I rode Raging Bull and S:ROS NE in the same summer (2001) tell me that Bull was better. And I had another friend get off Titan at SFoT and tell me Vortex at KI was "much taller." I had a friend go with me to SFMM and couldn't even tell you the name of a single ride before we got there.
You're talking about a potential maintenance and safety issue for a difference that only .01% of your audience will ever notice.
As enthusiasts, we are willing to travel hundreds of miles, spend vacation days, book hotel stays, and rent cars for that difference. The VAST, VAST, VAST majority of people are not. Like not even close.
Hobbes: "What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do?"
Calvin: "If your numbers go up, it means you're having more fun."
RavenTTD said:
And maybe some companies besides Intamin can possibly build a number one too but not B&M. They never will. You have a chance with a few other companies. But with Intamin, if you have a decent location and the money, ask for a number one and it is guaranteed.
I'm trying to understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that if a park asks B&M to build them a coaster, it will not be as popular as if they ask Intamin to build it? Kings Island is nuts this year with the addition of Banshee, and Diamondback is still extremely popular, and both of those are B&Ms. That's just using my home park as an example. B&M builds extremely popular coasters all the time, don't they? A number one coaster is not guaranteed, no matter what company you get to build your coaster, how much you pay them, or what location you give them to build the ride. I hope I have misunderstood what you are saying.
If it is B&M I hope it has inversion. B&M has built so many airtime hills and none of them are any good.
Ummm... Have you ever rode Diamondback? Apollo's Chariot? I've heard that the Canadian B&M hypercoasters are pretty full of air. You could be right about a few B&Ms, but not all of them are lame as far as airtime goes.
-Travis
www.youtube.com/TSVisits
One of the biggest disconnects between enthusiasts and the industry is the idea that manufacturers just do whatever, because they want to, and not because a customer asked them for something.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Closed topic.
