Hey Everyone..

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Jeffrey R Smith said:
The most important unwritten rule is to NEVER EVER say anything that could even remotely be interpreted that Cedar Point in any way has failed to meet expectations.

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That is total bull****. Anyone who hangs around here or Pointbuzz enough will know that Cedar Point's biggest fans also happen to be the park's harshest critics.

There's a difference between saying that the park is doing a bad job with something and saying that the park sucks because they were out of your favorite flavor of Dippin' Dots. Can you guess which one gets you flamed around here? Only one of them does.

TTD has so far proven to be so unreliable that it disappoints as many as it thrills. While there would certainly be resistance from management to remove such an expensive AND awesome machine, it is impossible to believe this option has not been considered. There is a certain guest disappointment threshold beyond which CP management cannot continue to ignore the problem. Among enthusiasts it is generally unwise and unacceptable to point out or even discuss the obvious with respect to CP and TTD. CP appears to have bit off more than they can chew with TTD. If there was any fix to the unreliability problem with this ride, I’m confident they would have found it by year 2 of operation. It is fairly safe to say that TTD has been and probably will always be a very unreliable ride that will have expensive maintenance and labor costs associated with it as well as guest satisfaction troubles due to the unreliability factor. I don’t care how much the enthusiast community loves the ride. If it starts affecting the bottom line, they will remove it. The question remains whether TTD is an asset or liability at this point of time. I suspect it is still an asset, but I wonder how long this will be the case since it is still having so many mechanical difficulties year 2.

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Among enthusiasts it is generally unwise and unacceptable to point out or even discuss the obvious with respect to CP and TTD.

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I think you make a lot of stupid generalizations and underestimate the ability of the community to think for themselves. As John said, that's nonsense (or "BS," as he said).

Last time I looked it's the GP that loves the ride and stands in long lines to ride it while enthusiasts in general are underwhelmed by it and unless it's their first ride, aren't usually jumping up and down to wait in a line more than an hour or so.

You can talk about maintenance issues up and down, but most of the GP never even knows about most of these issues, especially those that only go to the park once or twice a year.

And the "disappointment threshold" has nothing to do with guests, enthusiasts, etc. - it has to do with the bottom line, and right now, the disappointment threshold with TTD is miles away. The cost of upkeep on a ride that is sometimes down for entire operating days for non-mechanical reasons (thereby reducing daily maintenance expenditures) cannot possibly offset the incredible burst of attendance and publicity the park has gotten from the ride. Come on, you don't think it was worth the headache of a few angry guests and some whiny enthusiasts to get your name and video of your new ride on a national morning news show? (I saw a TTD story in my hotel the morning of my first trip to SFMM - ironic?)

What was Gemini's quote? Something like those that complain about fanboys are most often hateboys? Yea ... something like that ... think about that one ... *** Edited 8/2/2004 2:36:44 PM UTC by Impulse-ive***

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Kyle Fobe said:
I hate Raptor's breaks!

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If Raptor had "breaks", you wouldn't make it to the end of the ride alive. "Brakes" is what you meant to say (a very common error on this board).

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Jeffrey R Smith said:
I too was once in your shoes and can clearly remember how difficult it was to know the unwritten rules without in fact breaking them and facing the wrath of purple kool-aide drinking membership.

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Woo hoo! Snap! Little bitter there Jeffrey? ;)

Well CCB, if anything, you have unlimited possibilities for learning about human nature...er I mean coasters here. :)

"I think you make a lot of stupid generalizations and underestimate the ability of the community to think for themselves. As John said, that's nonsense (or "BS," as he said)."

Another emotional response Jeff? I went back to the TTD thread and did a quick count for fun.

http://coasterbuzz.com/forum.aspx?mode=thread&TopicID=38349

Besides my posts there were roughly (quick count I may be off a few here or there) 45 responses. Of those responses there were 9 that had nothing to do with CP or TTD. There were 34 responses that sing the praises of TTD and make all sorts of excuses for the downtimes and generally avoid doing anything that would paint CP in a negative light. There were 2 responses, besides my own that in anyway could be conceived as putting any blame on CP.

One of my favorites is when you Jeff said:

"I have no doubt in my mind that aside from the cable replacement they're doing 90% uptime at least."

Not one person even challenged your mathematics even though simple logic and a review of any coaster board trip report would show this statement to be absurd. TTD is nowhere near 90% uptime nor has it ever been. I understand how this subject could get you Jeff, all fired up as you are like CP’s unofficial spokesman. Maybe you could do some commercials for them like Wendy’s!

Anyhow, of the 36 responses that are on subject, 94 % paint CP in a glowing light. Yea, I’m really making an unreasonable generalization about posters on this board when I say:

"Among enthusiasts it is generally unwise and unacceptable to point out or even discuss the obvious with respect to CP and TTD.!"

Apparently 94% is not enough to make a statement like this for you, Jeff!

Once again the facts and logic do not support your take Jeff. But that never seems to stop you.

More kool-aide for your fans? :-)

I know this was directed towards Jeff and it is not my business to defend him (not that he needs defending from the likes of me), but I feel that your blanket comment about the entire community is uncalled for.

Come on now, why is it unwise to disagree with the majority of people here? Seems to me that in the thread you cited, most everyone was being quite civil. In fact, you started the thread under the assumption that you were being iconoclastic and that everyone was going to throw doo doo at you for it. Given that, you were probably looking extra hard at the responses.

In all fairness, perhaps the reason it seems that folks are out to get you here, is because of that negative attitude of yours. Or, perhaps we're all a bunch of spoiled little sycophants with nothing better to do than conduct big ol' electronic group think sessions. Perhaps it is a little bit of both?

You want folks to play nice with you, be nice yourself.

Whatever dude... you believe what you want to believe. The park is doing 90% uptime on the ride. That's not a guess, that's a fact from People Who Know(TM) at the park. I don't care if you don't believe me or not, but I think anyone that has been around awhile realizes I don't pull that kind of thing out of my ass.

If you think fanboys can't criticize the park, I've got a 21-page thread that says otherwise. Figure that into your generalization.

I'm not fired up about anything, so go bait someone else.

Super secret inside information you have! :-)

I guess all those trip reporters are liars! Yea!

:-)

No baiting Jeff! I'm just in the 5-6% minority that don't drink your kool-aide!

I'm sure you respect diversity of opinions and would not want everybody on CB agreeing with you anyhow!

P.S. In the future at least use a post from CB which this entire thread was based upon to provide some evidence! I've never been to the link you've given. I tend to stay on CB, so I can only help this poor guy understand the super secret unwritten rules of CB! Maybe there are indeed some sites that tend to have objective debates about CP. CB certainly has not been THAT place!

God bless!

Nice comeback. Way to respond directly to my points (as well as those made by John and Eric). You made a generalization about enthusiasts, now you want to qualify it as only CB enthusiasts.

Are trip reports a compiled statistic of uptime? Do the trip reports collectively account for every operational moment of the park? I didn't think so.

The problem isn't that you think it's unwise to question CP or Dragster, the problem is that you can't handle it when someone disagrees with you. How's that for irony?

Now forgive me, but I need to go serve my minions pancakes now.

"May I help you out since you are new? There are many cultlike behaviors associated with Coasterbuzz that you must learn to accept if you want to access the fine content and information available here."

What is it about the word CoasterBuzz you don't understand? This would be the first and qualifying sentence of my post. I guess you just missed the word Coasterbuzz.

Imagine Jeff trying to mislead people when debating. He wouldn’t purposely do that would he?

Feel free to show me all the negative posts on Coasterbuzz pertaining to CP. I guess I was thrown off by the 94% response rate on that Coasterbuzz thread.

P.S. I don't mind disagreement at all. I do however mind people who not only avoid logic and evidence, but also take it a step further by misrepresenting an opponent’s argument and making up stats out of midair with no evidence to back it up! This is disingenuous by you! If you just missed the word Coasterbuzz then apologize and move on. Otherwise, find all these threads that show this fine diversity of opinions about CP on CB.

I stand by my take 100%! The unwritten rule is to NEVER say anything that could in anyway put CP in a bad light. Your angry responses and misrepresentations only further prove my case.

P.S.S. “90%” LOL!

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Among enthusiasts it is generally unwise and unacceptable to point out or even discuss the obvious with respect to CP and TTD.

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Yep, "CoasterBuzz" appears at least four times in that sentence, and at least a dozen in the original post.

Your "unwritten rule" is just your own weird perception. No one is angry or misrepresenting anything. It's just your silly distraction so you don't have to respond to the points that John, Eric and I made. Still waiting for those, by the way.

By the way, my fanboy stalker club meeting is open to everyone, so feel free to stop by next time. Although if you join us, I don't know who we're going to conspire against next.

Besides my posts there were roughly (quick count I may be off a few here or there) 45 responses. Of those responses there were 9 that had nothing to do with CP or TTD. There were 34 responses that sing the praises of TTD and make all sorts of excuses for the downtimes and generally avoid doing anything that would paint CP in a negative light. There were 2 responses, besides my own that in anyway could be conceived as putting any blame on CP.

Even though I didn't post in that thread, I have a good reason why 34 responses sung the praises of TTD, maybe its because those people's opinion on the matter is that after a year or 2 Top Thrill Dragster will be ok. It's not a big deal if only 2 people agree with you. I mean just because you made a whole thread listing all of the problems you thought that TTD had doesn't mean people are gonna agree with you.

Learn to accept the fact that more people in life will disagree with you then agree with you. Because its annoying to read that you think your opinions are so gifted over everyone elses and that your right and all 35 people in that thread are wrong.

Ok, you've been beaten down by a 14-year-old. Give it up dude. Coasterbuzz is a fraternaty of sorts, but we aren't all out to get you.

That being said, welcome to the club Kyle, you've progressed well ;) *gives Kyle a big cookie for that last post*

Hooterking695847 scores! See... kids can surprise you sometimes.

Although if Kyle was reading correctly, he'd know that Jeffrey "doesn't mind disagreement at all." Duh. Didn't you read his post?

Perhaps I rambled too much. I do that sometimes. A more simple question might be in order (and answer honestly): Did you post your first reply to this thread in order to start a fight?

Your right Jeff! I totally misrepresented his argument! ;)

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Chernabog said:
Hell, I don't even like Cedar Point.

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Quoted from this very thread, and yet she recieved not even the slightest bit of negativity in any way.

Face it, people who hang here tend to enjoy CP for the most part (apparently 94% of us - see I quoted your number, Jeffery) - so it's not a beatdown when you catch crap for saying something negative about the park, it's a vocal majority offering retort, debate and opposing views.

I think the main problem is coming to a place that is so "pro-CP" and wondering why no one will agree with your every last thought. Kind of like going to Yankee stadium and rooting for the Mets - you're not going to get a good reaction.

On top of that, I don't think CB is any worse that any coaster forums that discusses a broad range of park related topics. People in general seem to like Cedar Point, the members around here are no different. If you want CP bashing with no opposition you need to visit a site like 'sixflagsroolz.com' or 'paramountfansite.com'

I think the age old advice of "if it sucks so bad and is so horrible then why keep coming around?" applies here.

*** Edited 8/3/2004 1:02:18 AM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

"I think the main problem is coming to a place that is so "pro-CP" and wondering why no one will agree with your every last thought. Kind of like going to Yankee stadium and rooting for the Mets - you're not going to get a good reaction."

This is exactly my point. I could not agree more. I was just warning the new guy that this was a pro-CP board! You did it better with less words and sarcasm than I.

Lets face it, Jeff apparently has a CP website on the side (or is CB the side?)! This is not the place for objective discussions of CP. We are to treat CP with kid gloves or face the wrath. I was just warning the new guy that a post about taking TTD out might not go over too well.

Funny thing is, that you 94%ers fail to see that your very response to my post proves the very point I'm trying to make. I dare to say a few takes about TTD and the 94%ers (kool-aide drinkers) jump into an instant defensive mode to protect their Mecca! I’m the first to admit my sarcasm only boils the pot, but don’t you guys want at least one semi-regular poster that might have a different take about some issues?

I in fact love CP and think it is the best place to go for steel coaster riding in the world. As a guy who lived in Ohio for my first 22 years of life, I have been to CP literally hundreds of times. I could afford a nice home for the money I’ve blown at that place. In fact, if I do not make it this year, it will be the first season I have ever missed (I’m 33 this Dec)! I just think TTD is a huge PR nightmare and I certainly am not naïve enough to buy the 90% uptime story. Wherever that super secret information is coming from, you can be sure that it is either completely made up or it is some Cedar Fair employee who has a vested interest in making sure that TTD is painted in a better light than reality would indicate.

I can understand wanting to protect your beloved CP. I do not understand making up stats and misrepresenting reality to do so.

P.S. Jeff, as much as I appreciate your invitation to join yet another club of yours, I respectively decline. While I certainly enjoy amusement parks and rollercoasters way too much, I’ve found it best to avoid the patches-on-the-jacket-start-your-own-website types. No disrespect meant. I’m certainly glad that there are guys like you that are willing to do this stuff to help keep me informed about my hobby. I don’t have to wait for ACE News anymore. Your site does it faster and better. Heck I even pay my $20 out of appreciation for the effort it must take. I’ve even sent a few friends to CB for information. I certainly don’t pay the money because I like your politics or takes. I certainly don’t like the overwhelming pro-CP take of CB. And I most definitely have zero desire to hang with some guy who I think is wrong on so many issues.

You had/have every right to ignore my post and move on. By responding as you have and always do, you only prove you’re a hack for CP. You have every right to be. I was only warning the new guy that you were indeed a hack. Now he can see it with his own eyes!