Hersheypark says transgender people free to use restrooms that correspond to gender identity

That clarification was what I was looking for, because, and chalk this up to my ignorance on the bill or what have you, I just assumed that anyone could pull a stunt similar to you self-identifying as the queen of England and just use whatever restroom they so desire. Thanks for the explanation.

The bathroom in my is apartment gender neutral. Absolutely everyone I know is allowed to use it, so long as they knock first (and don't stink it up too much!)

I don't see what the huge fuss is all about in this. As been said before, a law isn't going to stop perverts from entering the other bathroom. If I attempted to walk into the women's bathroom and said I identified as a woman, they would see right through that lie. It's really not that simple. This bill really changes nothing, transgendered people have been using their bathroom of choice for quite some time and nobody has batted an eye. I may have very well been in a restroom with such a person before and it hasn't affected me in any way. But I read somewhere that this whole thing may just be a smokescreen to distract us from something going on or to sway voters.

Transgender people using the bathrooms that match their gender identity have been going about their bathroom business without issue for a long, long time.

The huge fuss here is a combination -- I think -- of one political party that depends on an un-questioning base getting worked up by the latest assault on "our" values and a news media that loves nothing so much as easily reported stories full of conflict. I've never bought into the notion of The Liberal Media. Media companies are whores. They'll do whatever they can to make money.

Exactly, Slithernoggin. This wasn't as issue back when I was a little girl.

Jeff said:

Does anyone remember the show Ally McBeal? Where her law firm had a single gender neutral restroom? I don't recall any outrage about that, and that show ended 14 years ago. And The Biscuit preferred a fresh bowl.

Excuse me, are you unaware of what's going on with Target, Jeff? Almost every Target has three restrooms, male, female, and handicapped/parent changing baby diaper restrooms. They wanted to slap one of those "unisex" labels on the door of that third restroom to appeal to transgenders while continuing to ban them from using the restrooms of their "new" genders, and they're getting all hell from it. These people don't want a third restroom, it makes them feel "discriminated against" (and they compare themselves to the civil rights movement where blacks had separate restrooms, except that it's a false comparison because blacks never chose their race but transgenders do choose their "gender identity"). Biological men want to use the ladies' restroom and biological women want to use the men's restroom. You can't fight against the chromosomes you possess.

Excuse me, but unless I've lost my mind, you've got the Target controversy all kinds of ass backwards.

bjames said:

These people don't want a third restroom, it makes them feel "discriminated against" (and they compare themselves to the civil rights movement where blacks had separate restrooms, except that it's a false comparison because blacks never chose their race but transgenders do choose their "gender identity"). Biological men want to use the ladies' restroom and biological women want to use the men's restroom. You can't fight against the chromosomes you possess.

This is a good summation of the ignorance that exists in our society.

I don't believe for one moment that blanket policies will resolve issues, and I also agree that it has become politicized; and yet, I would argue that the good is that for the very first time I actually have heard the word "transgender" come out of my father's mouth, my father-in-law's mouth, and others. It's being discussed. Is it being discussed with cool heads and meaningful intention? Not everywhere, but it is happening.

That's where the good is.

Have a conversation, bjames, with a transgender individual, and inquire about how much he or she chose this path. Your statement is actually one of the reasons I absolutely will never tire of teaching in the field of psychology and human development. There is hope for you. Never stop learning.

Yeah, Target is actually being boycotted because they've maintained that anyone can use the bathroom they identify with gender-wise.

One of my best friends is transgender. I knew her before she was a she. When we go to parks, she uses the women's restrooms. There's never been an issue. I see people protesting transgenders going into the restroom they identify with, and my heart hurts for her. I fear for her safety because although if I didn't know her before I wouldn't think she had been a man at one point, maybe there are people that will think she's a guy and hurt her. All because she needs to pee or fix her hair.

I do think the media brought so much attention to this and caused a lot of the needless worry, and I also think people are uneducated on what it means to be transgender. It is NOT a man in a dress or a woman in...cargo shorts(?). A man who transitions to a woman, although sometimes will not have an actual sex reassignment surgery (due to the procedure not being covered by insurance and the fact the procedure is still not perfected), usually has hormone therapy, breast augmentation, electrolysis, etc. As slithernoggin pointed out, it is an ongoing, expensive thing to decide to do, and the decision is not made lightly or without fear of what friends and family will think or do. My friend was so scared all of us would not understand, but she's much happier in her own skin now, and it shows. She used to do drugs and get into all sorts of trouble because she was so damaged from hiding who she really was. I never even remember she was previously a guy unless we talk about it or something like this comes out.

I guarantee this worry is basically based on ignorance of what transgender truly is, and although I get the concerns, many of those concerns would dissipate with educating ourselves. Shame that doesn't happen more often.

bjames said:
Excuse me, are you unaware of what's going on with Target, Jeff?

You're excused, because my silly mention of an oughts TV show has exactly zero to do with Target.

...except that it's a false comparison because blacks never chose their race but transgenders do choose their "gender identity"...

Just like the gays choose to be gay, right?

You should quit while you're behind.

Just like the gays choose to be gay, right?

*Banky stands up* 'Well isn't that true?'

bjames said:

Biological men want to use the ladies' restroom and biological women want to use the men's restroom.

No. They don't. Biological men want to use the men's room. Biological women want to use the women's room.

And transgender women want to use the women's room and transgender men want to use the men's room.

bjames said:

...it's a false comparison because blacks never chose their race but transgenders do choose their "gender identity"...

Well, "bjames", transgenders do not choose their gender identity, which for some reason you chose to put in quotes, "bjames".

You're fortunate, "bjames". You were born with a body that matches your gender identity, "bjames". Not everyone is that lucky.

I applaud businesses like Target and Hersheypark and any others for these policies. I laugh at the notion that they would go all public-announcement on us in order to gain publicity, to jump on a bandwagon, or to further someone's political career. And I cry at the ignorance that's raised its ugly head.

I think it's a gutsy move. Bunk, I hadn't heard of a specific called-for boycott of Target stores in protest of this policy, (I'm not on those people's mailing list...), but I can only reckon it must be so! Can you imagine being the guy who answers the phone up there in Minneapolis? Or the gal in charge of social media at Hershey? What a nightmare.

They knowingly risk losing business on account of this, and potentially pissing off a wide base of customers. The honest message surely has to be "Be aware that this WILL BE happening here, we value and honor the diversity of our customers and employees, it's safe for EVERYone to come here, and if you don't like it stay home or go elsewhere." And I prefer think it's because they're choosing to stay on the right side of history.

bjames said:
(and they compare themselves to the civil rights movement where blacks had separate restrooms, except that it's a false comparison because blacks never chose their race but transgenders do choose their "gender identity"). Biological men want to use the ladies' restroom and biological women want to use the men's restroom. You can't fight against the chromosomes you possess.

Is this satire?

If people can be born with both sex organs, or no sex organs, then why is it impossible that people can be born with the wrong sex organs? I can't imagine having to go through life like that. They have my empathy and support.

LostKause said:

If people can be born with both sex organs, or no sex organs, then why is it impossible that people can be born with the wrong sex organs?

That's an interesting way of putting it. Here's a legitimate question.

Why do we treat is as letting the brain determine that the sex organ is wrong rather than the presence of a specific sex organ determining the brain is wrong?

I personally don't care if there is a guy in the bathroom that used to be a girl...or a girl that used to be a guy. But, can we get rid of the following people:

The guy who can pee everywhere but into the bowl.

The guy who eats Taco Bell 5 times a week and then is surprised that it doesn't agree with his system.

The guy (likely the same guy as above) who sounds like he is literally in pain while he is tending to his business.

The guy who talks on his phone while he is in the stall.

The guy who fakes a cough every time he passes gas...as if he is fooling anyone.

The guy who tries to start up a conversation with me while I'm at the urinal.

The guy who needs to use half a roll of toilet paper.

Any of the above people are of greater concern to me than the one transgender person I may possibly run into in the next 10 years or so.

Lord Gonchar said:

Why do we treat is as letting the brain determine that the sex organ is wrong rather than the presence of a specific sex organ determining the brain is wrong?

In my mind? Because, as LK notes, nature isn't perfect. Relying on physical appearance to define the person makes me uncomfortable.

RCMAC said:

I think it's a gutsy move

I'm not so sure. Companies that have to draw in consumers, I think, are more likely to follow where society is going rather than try to lead society.

Nature isn't perfect with brains either, is it? If so, how do you know (and how should society know) which one nature got wrong?

No, nature isn't perfect with brains either. And "we" can't know which one nature got wrong. Why not respect how people present themselves and not worry about their details?

There are people who enjoy things or present themselves in ways that I initially find shocking -- but I bear in mind that as a coaster-, comic book-, and Star Trek-geek who enjoys assorted kinks (let's just say I'm very, very happy IML is happening next weekend), I choose to respect them.

I am on board for respect. But that's very different from your initial answer to LG's question.