Posted Saturday, May 21, 2016 11:56 AM | Contributed by Jeff
Hersheypark has publicly declared its position on what type of restrooms transgender people can use. The amusement park says guests and employees may continue to use restrooms with which they gender-identify, or they’re welcome to use a family restroom.
Read more from WHTM/Harrisburg.
The comments section of that article make me hate the world a little. Willful ignorance, outrage and membership in an electronic mob seem to be the only things people want to be a part of.
My favorite response, direct from the Facebooks is:
"You've already shared a restroom with a transgendered person. You were fine."
Seems difficult to imagine with all the other issues in the world today, this one should be getting the focus that it is. For either side.
The notion that a guy putting on a dress is then magically transgender.... such ignorance. Sad.
I don't think that's the notion at all. I think the notion is that many of us who have wives and daughters don't really dig the idea of men being in the womens room, period. If you actually think anyone is going to stop a man, regardless of what he looks like or is wearing, from doing just that, you're kidding yourself. There are numerous cases of men assaulting women and girls in women's restrooms and locker rooms even before this law. Now we've made it legal for men to use the women's room, which makes it harder to prosecute someone who can just pull the discrimination card and claim they "idenify" as a woman.
That really not true. And that's not how sexual Predators even think. Like you said, Men that do those things will do it regardless and laws won't stop that. There are laws against rape. Rapists don't obey those laws.
It's no different than a man born and identifying as a man trying to molest a boy in a men's room. These laws against that have no effect on sexual predators, nor do they give them an out by playing a trans card.
Transgender people have been using the bathroom they identify with for years. All of A sudden when Pat McCrory (who needs to worry more about what he pays me as a state worker than which bathroom I go to) passed a law that is wildly unpopular in the state (Yes, even with Republicans), and people lost their minds.
Sexual predators will do what they do regardless. Sexual assult, regardless of the perpetrator OR victim's gender is still fully illegal.
And most male on female rape is going to happen in a secluded place where the rapist is in control. This hasn't changed and never will. If that's a woman's restroom, again, these laws or policies don't make it 'easier'.
Who would your wife and/or daughter feel more comfortable in the bathroom with, This woman?
Or this Man:
Because these gender bathroom bills would make The top picture go to the women's room, and the bottom picture go to the men's room.Last edited by Tekwardo, Saturday, May 21, 2016 5:14 PM
First off, what Tek said.
There are numerous cases of men assaulting women and girls in women's restrooms and locker rooms even before this law.
The operative word there being "men". Men and transgender women: two different things.
Three members of Congress (*ahem* all of them Republicans) have been arrested for sexual impropriety in public restrooms. Zero transgender men or women have been arrested on that basis. Forcing people to use the bathroom consistent with their birth certificate, so nicely illustrated by Tek, does nothing to solve the problem you're concerned about. Doing so is a solution in search of a problem, not a solution to a problem.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, these laws keep people just as safe as anti gun laws keep people
Criminals are going to do bad things. Period. Taking away your right to have a gun doesn't change that. Taking away the right of s trans person to go to the bathroom they're comfortable in doesn't change that, either.
My reply to the transgender restroom hysteria online discussions that have been taking place is this.
I bet that a trans woman in the restroom would be more interested in asking your daughter for make-up tips or where your wife bought her fabulous shoes than committing a sex crime.
I know it's kind of stereotypical, and maybe a little fun poke-ish, but that's what some of the people who are against it for the wrong reasons respond well to.
And to the people, like Vater, who are against it for the right reasons I say this. I understand. I totally get it. You want to protect your family at all costs, and I agree with you there. I'd have your back if something terrible were to happen. However, it's not likely to ever happen to you and your loved ones. I would like to think that the majority of adults keep an eye out for kids who are in a vulnerable position. Most everyone is a part of the buddy system weather they are aware of it or not.
The really terrible, almost paradoxical, thing about this controversy is that now that it's a big deal, it's more likely to happen, and not less.
Tek, the person in that above picture could just as easily walk into a women's restroom.
I agree that implementing laws isn't going to stop people from breaking them. I also agree that transgender people have been using the bathrooms they identify with for quite a long time and it hasn't ever been an issue. I think the hang-up is that anybody can use whatever bathroom they want and claim they identify with that gender, and who is anyone to tell them otherwise?
Simply put, nobody is checking birth certificates at the door to the restrooms. The person in that top picture could use a men's restroom right now and the person in the bottom picture could use a women's restroom right now. I don't think anybody is going to say anything. The issue that people seem to have is that anybody can use either one at will and can claim they identify with that gender, and there really isn't any way anybody can call them on it without the risk of being guilty of the same discrimination of which policies like the one enacted in North Carolina are accused of being. It's like these policies put in place by Target and Hersheypark, etc., are publicizing what was probably being done in secret all along.Last edited by sirloindude, Saturday, May 21, 2016 11:38 PM
If you come into the restroom, and sit in the stall or stand at the urinal next to me, and don't bother me...then we're cool.
It doesn't matter what anyone looks like, it's bad behavior that is the problem. Was before, is now, will be tomorrow.
Honestly, outside of "straight white men in positions of political power," not really familiar with too many incidents of inappropriate bathroom behavior. So maybe THEY'RE the ones we should be watching more closely...
Last edited by rollergator, Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:15 AM
well it's not like they had restroom police to begin with
Not how they think Tekwardo?
I understand the positions of people on both sides of this issue. Don't discount the concerns of parents of children or others who may be concerned. They have a voice that deserves to be heard in the discussion.
And lastly speaking from experience with friends I can say that its very likely that neither person whose photo you posted would appreciate you identifying them in the way that you did. When someone transitions they want to fit in with the gender they identify with and be recognized as such. They don't appreciate the reminder.Last edited by egieszl, Sunday, May 22, 2016 2:59 AM
The really terrible, almost paradoxical, thing about this controversy is that now that it's a big deal, it's more likely to happen, and not less.
And often in the opposite direction: women are being harassed and assaulted in restrooms not because they may or not be transgender but because the attacker, ginned up by Republicans across the country, feel justified to do so.
The most recent one I saw: a woman who committed the horrible deed of cutting her long hair to donate to an organization that makes wigs for cancer patients was verbally harassed at length. Her now short hair 'proved' that she was a man.
I think the hang-up is that anybody can use whatever bathroom they want and claim they identify with that gender, and who is anyone to tell them otherwise?
You aren't transgender because you decide to say you are transgender. You don't walk into a court and ask the judge to change the gender on your driver's license from male to female because you woke up last Tuesday and decided to be a woman.
And to be blunt, I'd rather not be in a public restroom with you. You have a problem with imaginary self-declared transgender folk? I have a problem with people in the restroom thinking so much about what my privates look like.
About three years ago, myself and several other managers for my company had to go through sensitivity training when it came to dealing with LGBT individuals. Now when we hire new people, and enter them into our system we have to ask them what gender that identify as. Most laugh and give the oblivious answer, but it's required by our standards to ask and to be sure we are using the proper pronouns. It was not an overnight process and it took some time to get use it. Our employee restrooms have been striped of their gender specificity and now we just have to generic restrooms. I personally have only had one employee that identified as a different gender than she was born with. The standards my company had rolled out made her feel more comfortable and generally a happier employee.
When it really comes down to it, treat people as you would want to be treated. Having Men's and Women's restrooms as far as I'm concerned, is the same as pre-civil right's Coloreds and Whites restrooms. Restrooms should not be gender specific and I'm happy to see that large companies are making a stance to rectify. Now it's time to remove the urinals and make all restrooms the same and strip them of the gender completely.
Anyone that feels that gender specific restrooms are safer then neutral are living in a fantasy world thinking that a sex placard is going to protect anyone.
And lastly speaking from experience with friends I can say that its very likely that neither person whose photo you posted would appreciate you identifying them in the way that you did. When someone transitions they want to fit in with the gender they identify with and be recognized as such. They don't appreciate the reminder.
He was pointing out the absurdity of the law, that the law automatically puts those people back into having to identify with their original gender, by making them use the bathroom that identifies with their birth certificate. While at the same time making the point that other people in the restroom are more likely to be uncomfortable when they see a hyper realized post transition person in the restroom that doesn't correspond to their new gender.
which is all BS when we know that this is just the newest version of the Republicans using some minority as a way to whip up the rubes into voting in an an election year. Since they lost on Gay Marriage, and Interracial marriage, it's now Transgender people who are the newest boogyman (or woman).
Are we at the point in this country where every company is going to have to come out a pick a side on this topic?
Maybe they should take the six flags approach and just let people go where ever they want too? Sorry couldn't help myself on that one.
It's a sad commentary on our society that given all of the serious problems in the world today, transgender potty breaks is what gets all of the attention.
Personally, people have told me for years that I'm just a dog, so I guess I'll just piss on the sides of buildings.
egieszl is full of it...
You're right. I should have worded that better. Yes, there are people that have tried it, and will in the future. I mistakenly thought that that came across as I intended, but I forget that Coasterbuzz is a Literal Speak only zone. Overall, sexual predators do not think in that way, your 2 articles show that if sexual predators try to do what they do, they get arrested, and nothing has changed.
But here's something that neither article mentioned: Maybe those 2 individuals ARE transgendered sexual predators...
It doesn't matter.
Don't discount the concerns of parents of children or others who may be concerned. They have a voice that deserves to be heard in the discussion.
This is the new mantra of the butt hurt (I'm so not referring to Vater here, only Eric). I'm not discounting his concerns, and I'm not trying to take his voice away. He is in no way a victim of anything other than my opposing position. Quite frankly, I highly respect what I know of him, have for years, have no issues with him, and respect that his opinion is different. I encourage him to continue in this conversation, as he usually does. In fact, most of the time, my views align with his. Thats a great thing about Coasterbuzz, it's not URC (LOL, is that even still a thing? Yes? Oh. Do I need to add a few >>>'s to my post so that you understand?) Coasterbuzz has topics and conversations like this all of the time that are done in a respectable manner. I figure that's why you rarely post here, you don't get it.
I can say that its very likely that neither person whose photo you posted would appreciate you identifying them in the way that you did.
You're so full of crap some times that I wonder if you can get the taste out of your mouth when you brush your teeth in the mornings.
You think you're the only person with experience with Transgender people? Since you have such a hard time comprehending what I said, let me repeat what someone else said so that maybe you can understand that.
He was pointing out the absurdity of the law, that the law automatically puts those people back into having to identify with their original gender, by making them use the bathroom that identifies with their birth certificate.
I happen to live in the state that is currently ground zero for this debate. And HB2 is a highly unpopular piece of legislation with both Republicans and Democrats. Trust me, because of my job (and having to be responsible for registering a high percentage of the population to vote), I hear about it every day, not only as anecdotal information, but from constant memos and emails and policy clarifications that I get on the daily because of all of the lawsuits about HB2 and the Voter ID law.
I'm glad you have experience with Trans people, though. Kudos. You deserve a cookie for standing up for their 'rights' to identify without being reminded of how they were born.
Last edited by Tekwardo, Sunday, May 22, 2016 3:53 PM
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