GL Employees Quiting Left and Right

So, Moosh....the question begs to be asked.

What's sadder? That seasonal employees in many states don't have those sorts of protections, or that Six Flags takes advantage of it?

Employees are not serfs. They reserve the right to vote with their feet.

Government regulation rarely accomplishes its intentions. Plus, it may affect the effective operation of M:TR.

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PerrysburgGuy said:
Employees are not serfs. They reserve the right to vote with their feet.

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And maybe you're missing something here....most of them do. Do you realize what kind of employee turn over your average Six Flags park has? Many leave after just a few months, when they realize they can get paid better at McDonalds, and with 10 times less BS to put up with.

Most that do stay do it because they love the park, and the people they work with. Not because they love the job itself.

Yes, you're right. I was referring to federal minimum wage and overtime laws, which do not apply to seasonal employees. However, I do note that state laws can revoke this exemption. Relevant DOL document here.

California is very protective of worker's rights and conditions.

For example, full-time employees in this state can not lose earned vacation days. If I get 15 days a year but only use 10 the remaining 5 will continue to roll-over until I use them or I leave the company and I'm paid out. I most other states it's "use 'em or lose 'em."

Of course, being an enthusiast I've yet to roll over any days ;)

Well, the rights of documented workers, anyway...

Right...I should have made that a bit more clear.

(sorry, just my Berkeley pinko commie liberal bias showing through. don't mind me.)

Or be a contractor, 'Moosh, then you can take off whenever you want (and not get paid ;))!

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XFlight said:
However, you can blame the guy in the corner office for cutting budget so much that the "pathetic slacker" has been working open to closes for 3 or 4 weeks straight because our staff was cut to less then half of SOP minimums.

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I'm sorry, was that employee a slave? Was there some reason he couldn't quit? PerrysburgGuy is right... it's within your right to split.

Furthermore, that's what being responsible for yourself is all about (God I sound like a Republican now). You want to talk to me about 14+ hour days? Been there, working for myself, where there are no managers or laws, just me. Working until dawn to finish a product and get it to the client, for days at a time. And unlike you, I have a mortgage, a car, insurance, property taxes and student loans to pay. If you're looking for sympathy, you won't find it here.

Here's the thing though... I choose to do this. No one is forcing me. I can walk away and work for the man. But if the man treats me wrong, I'll do my own thing and make it work. I'm responsible for me. My success or failure is not tied to the guy in the corner office. Maybe if you looked at it from that perspective there'd be less "poor me."

You guys are all over Six Flags for running things poorly and placing blame, Cedar Fair comes in to run it like a real business, a proven business, and you want to be the experts and say that it won't work.

We'll see in November when 3Q results come out...

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matt. said:

Do you realize what kind of employee turn over your average Six Flags park has? Many leave after just a few months, when they realize they can get paid better at McDonalds, and with 10 times less BS to put up with.

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Great! The free market economy at work.

Turn over is a problem of the employer. If the employer gets tired of the turnover, they must change how they package the job.
The government is setting such rules is not something that I support. They usually hose it up some how. *** Edited 4/27/2004 5:52:23 PM UTC by PerrysburgGuy***

Welcome to the real world, people. When economics warrant, pay cuts and job losses in order to keep a business running profitably is just a fact of life. It doesn't matter how "good" an employee is when budget cuts require letting people go.

Any business that is in trouble is going to cut the most expensive and redundant positions first. Yes, people are the first to go when you can't cut equipment/maintenance/services budgets. Wage cuts are next.

I watched my husband lose two jobs in a row due to downsizing. Seniority had nothing to do with it, or how "good" he was at his job. It was based upon who was making the most money.

I've also watched a complete reorganization in our department when the new director came in. Out went the manager and a good portion of the tech staff. In came the new "hand picked" manager, and several new tech staff hired in at lower salaries.

Yes, many people ended up doing three times the work during the transition. I'm currently doing the job of what was once handled by 4 separate people. Amazingly enough, I find I can handle it. Which makes me wonder now what those other three people did all day long.

I'll be at GL on Saturday. I don't expect everything is going to be running as smoothly as opening day at CP. I understand the park is in transition. Time will tell whether what CF is doing now will be better in the long run or not.

Welcome to the real world indeed!

The magazine I work for just went from 38 employees to 8. Guess who takes on most of their duties yet doesn't get any extra pay? The 8 who are left, of course. Are we complaining? No...we're just glad we all have jobs!

mOOSH

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PerrysburgGuy said:

Great! The free market economy at work.

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And scarily enough, on this point, I agree. These people are going to take pay cuts, but at the same time, they're going to enjoy more reasonable hours, scheduled position shifts, and better management overall. I'm sure the employees that stick around will be thankful for it. Maybe not right away, but it will happen eventually.

So there's obviously people working or who have worked at the park posting here.

Are we gonna see any numbers, or do we have to guess?

I'd make my decision based upon that. If CF cut ride ops' pay from $7/hour to $1.37/hr, then they suck. If it was from $17/hr to $8/hr, then they're smart.

Of course it's somewhere in the middle. Until I find out where, though, I'm not passing judgement on anyone.

I have mixed feelings here. I think Cedar Fair buying the park is a great thing, though I am not sure if Mr. Kinzel realized what he was getting himself into. I personally think that because of factors such as lack of housing, and the median age of most ride-ops, the park needs to have their rates be at least somewhat higher than at Cedar Point. The reason for this is not because people deserve that money, or don't deserve it, but because of the realities of the market.

If Geauga Lake wants to attract more mature, older (over 18) employees, they will need to raise wages. I don't think there are many people like me who will end up taking a cut of up to $2-$3 from other college level work (work study at my university starts at $8.45), just because they want to work in the park and help turn it around.

Sadly, from what I have seen, people like me seem to be more of the exception than the rule, though I do not mean to put down my fellow team members. Most are in high school, and this is a good job for them, where they will learn a lot, and provide guests with the best service they can. But if they want to attract more employees, especially college age, I think a small pay hike might be the answer.

I am glad that the people I am working for, though younger, are just as, or more mature than I am, and I hope to see a lot out of these 16 and 17 year olds at the park. I will be expecting a lot out of them (EDIT: my fellow team members. I know the leadership will be working their buts off), and a lot out of myself. We agreed to work there for the pay we get, and since we are they, our guests will get the best service they ever got.

Enough rambling for now. I just think the market might force pay to increase. The market, not something else.

-Sam *** Edited 4/28/2004 3:21:56 PM UTC by Avalanche Sam***

Sounds like GL is paying seasonal wages comparable to other amusement parks. Cedar Point doesn't pay ride ops $8.45/hr. Every year, amusement park employees move on because they can make $10/hr somewhere else. That's just the nature of the business.

If they want to attract an "over 18" employee, the answer is to build dorms.

Walt, I understand what you are saying. Cedar Point's ride ops get the same as the ones at Geauga Lake. But unlike us, they have the option of living on point if they are far enough away. Until dorms are built, I do not see them attracting many people my age, unless they raise the pay somewhat.

As I said, I am looking at this from a market perspective. When I worked in Merchandiser Operations at a particular Fortune 500 company (where I got the same pay right out of high school, during the summer, as I am getting before bonus now), the pay rates of our merchandisers depended on region of the country. I think that since the job market for Geauga Lake is different, and the demand for jobs is lower, higher pay rates may help raise that demand.

I am sacrificing a lot by working at Geauga Lake, when I could find a job on campus paying more money. But I care about the park, and I want to learn about park operations. I don't know if others my age are willing to do the same thing. Some are, but at least at my school, this type of job is below most students (in their minds). I even got made fun of on a message board at my school for working at GL. (Though it was a fraternity brother making fun of me).

I guess I just want to work with the best, and I don't know if we can attract enough of the best at Cedar Point's pay scale, because of the particulars of the park. I think adding maybe 50 cents an hour might help that, but I am a political science major, not economics.

Again, I have a lot of respect for those staying with the lower pay, and a lot of respect for the people at the park in general. I hope all turns out well, and I hope to have fun, regardless of pay.

-Sam

It is quite sad for me to see that there are people (nearly) celebrating and cheering for people who have lost jobs and cut in pay.

What a ridiculous thing people say! I do not see what is there to debate at the fact that experienced people are quitting at GL.

People in NE Ohio should know better than this. Sohio selling their soul to BP resulted in hundreds of jobs lost. BF Goodrich? Firestone? Now Noveon being sold to Lubrizol will result in more job losses. Because a company provide a good product does not mean the company is a saint.

Don't be ridiculous. No one is cheering anything. What's being stated is that the park is being operated and staffed as a park this size should be. Furthermore, these alleged pay cuts (which no one has yet put a dollar figure on in terms of what it was, what it is, and who it affects, so I'm skeptical) are for seasonal non-skilled workers. These aren't people supporting families.

I hope they do build dorms... then, like Cedar Point, they can hire the kids from across the pond with a strong work ethic to do a relatively crappy job. Then when all of the jobs at Old Navy are gone the local kids can go crying back to their parents for money to put gas in the cars they didn't have to buy.

I haven't seen anyone celebrating or cheering about the fact the people lost their jobs or are taking pay cuts. This sounds like deja vu to me.

In SOME cases it is a shame that it happened and we can feel empathy for those people...while understanding it is a buisness.

In OTHER cases it is probably a good thing. Some people there needed to go. New ownership alone wasn't going to turn that park aroud. Aside from some diehard SFWoA fans just about everyone in the enthusiast community saw major problems from the line employees on up. This feeling must have been evident outside the enthusiast community or the park wouldn't have been sold.

I am sick of the generalization that if we agree with or understand the moves being made it automatically means we are happy about seeing these people fired or demoted. That couldn't be further from the truth.