GL Employees Quiting Left and Right

IMO, I look at it this way. People quit because they want to or are forced out because they blow. Cedar fair is trying to turn the park around and there doing a good job. People who really want to stay there will because they know there in a tight spot right now (they just spent alot of money buying the park and there putting more money into it to get it running) The employees who deserve to get paid more will if they just continue to do a good job.

I'm not ready to say they are doing a good job. They have started the job but it remains to be seen if it will really turn things around or not. Some of the decisions made thus far give me reason to think they are heading in the right direction but I am not ready to say it has been an unequivocal success.

I will say this...if you want to be wealthy then the amusement industry is the wrong industry for you. Very few people (relatively) get rich working in the parks.

I think no one gave an exact dollar amount because each department is different. I actually got a pay raise because I was promoted. I just want to make it clear that Im not against the paycuts. I just believe some hard working people in the park didnt deserve them. Some did, some didnt. But it was across the board. Depending on department paycuts were anywhere from $.25-$2.00 at a starting position. Some seasonal supervisor's took cuts around $4 or $5. With the bonus program people will in the end be actually making more, however some people dont look at it that way. Also the hard working individuals that I believe didnt deserve the cut the bonus will not make up for lost pay. Employee housing will solve most of the parks staffing problems. Its something the park has needed since 2000. I hope we see them by 2006.

Which is probably OK, because money doesn't feed the soul.

Very interesting indeed. Being a good employee is not equal to higher pay, and being a good employee does not mean he or she will not be forced out.

A person worked for a company and did a good job, but a new company can come in and cut you loose. Or company can go out of business not not get paid. I do not see much difference here.

Which of Cedar Fair's other parks have dorms on site for their workers?

I have to add my .02 because I think it was Moosh whom said it in an earlier thread. What about restaurant employees. I was employed by a restaurant for nine years. I had one benefit...a week's paid vacation. The pay sucks and the hours are long, especially if you are a supervisor like I was. I had to work shifts when others didn't show. After nine years, I made $7.75 an hour, which in my town is not too bad. Except, that the last three years I was given no raise even though I was covering shifts and doing my job better than 95% of the cooks there(I was the dayshift supervisor/line cook). Plus when I did go back to school for business management, I had to start working double shifts six days a week and somehow find time to study and go to school. Thank God (and myself) that I put up with it long enough and I was able to obtain a great job as an accountant after that. Then, about a year ago, I started working for my uncle whom owns a family biz that is a costume/magic shop. I, like Jeff, have found out that sometimes you have to work ridiculous hours and most of the time I don't get paid for staying over. Case in point. Last October, I put in 11 hour days and got sick on the busiest day of the year, October 31st. But, I still managed to work. I have never been happier at a job in my entire life and I hope one day I can take over the biz and keep it going. So, I can empathize with those that were good employees and had their wages cut, but it sounds to me that they had way too many employees and too high of a payroll.

Valleyfair! has dorms but I believe they are the only other Cedar Fair park that does. And, I think it is only one building at VF.

New director of Revenue when learning that half of his foods management staff walked because of the new pay rates, "well i guess they really didn't want to work here."

The base rate cuts weren't the big issue, it's with the intermediate management that runs the park from day to day. Cutting someone from 13 to 9 or 10 to 7.50 is a joke. Again i point out that that person formerly making 13 was managing an area that brought in over a dollar per cap. Supervisors (top level seasonals) should be some of the strongest managers in the park (i think), when there are only four or so full timers running a department you NEED strength in the seasonal ranks. $9 an hour won't retain much in the Cleveland market for the level of manager they SHOULD be looking for.

Another point is how much does cutting that money save the park. So you have lets say four Seasonal Supervisors for the FS Dept. The average cut is say 3 dollars. Even if they all work 2000 hours this year it only saves 24,000 dollars. Not even enough to hire a decent full timer. Now if there are 150 to 200 food service workers and you cut a quarter off of thier salary 200 at 500 hours annually you save more. Now if the quality of supervisor isn't there then you don't spend the money, but you still go out and find the people and pay them what they are worth, which is a lot of money to the company's bottom line. Cutting the seasonal management rates is cutting off your nose despite your face.

Wahoo: First VF dorm went up in '96. I can't remember when #2 went up. It started off as a two-story dorm. Both were three stories tall by 2000.

As an area with 2% unemployment in the late 90s, they had no choice but to go outstate, overseas and still recruit from temp agencies by July.

But last season they were swamped with applications at a 5% unemployment rate. Go figure.

-'Playa

Valleyfair has 2 doorm buildings with 3 levels on each building.

Of course, many Six Flags parks don't have dorms, per se, for the American workers, but housing IS provided for all of the people that come in from different countries to work. Not the same situation as say....Cedar Point, but it does make for a lot of people living close to the site that work insane amounts of hours.

Also, many parks have houses where many kids rent out rooms close to the park themselves during the summer, which while completely independant from the park, work much the same way. There's a couple of places on the other side of the street from SFNE that do this. I believe the woman that owns one of the houses is in food services, and she gets about 7 or 8 kids living in that one house during the summer. Just one example. Then again, many parks aren't within easy walking distance of private homes. ;)

It has been interesting reading through this thread. Of course, it merely reflects America in general. Some believe in true capitalism and free markets. Some believe in the rights of employees, and their ability to earn a "living wage".

There are a few points which seem to have been hinted upon, but not highlighted. Personally, I believe one of the reasons CF took the labor broom in to GL was an attempt to change the very nature of the current labor pool. There are at times, when companies will do pay adjustments to change the corporate culture as well the "feel" of things.

Also, there is the possibility that CF is attempting to more closely even things up across the board, so there could be transfers as well as flow of employees between CF and GL.

Also, there are guidelines which companies now adhere to(brought on by lawyers and labor requirements) which will have most companies coming in and not doing a number of "subjective" pay views. Companies several years ago have been working with a predetermined wage guide within their corporate structure, that has defined levels. This was borne out from several companies losing labor disputes in the past.

I do not know the specifics of the labor market in the surrounding Clevelend area, but one can be sure that CF is familiar with that area. There are of course bound to be hiccups as well as problems with such a change at GL. But, that does not mean things are running worse.

Yes, the customer is what drives the amusement industry. Hopefully, that customer will take everything into their thinking when they go to GL. It will probably not be run like CF 100% of the time, in the beginning. It could even take part of a season to get things running decently. But, one should not be comparing the running of GL at the open of the sesaon to CP. They should be comparing how GL is running mid-season to how it ran the past few years in mid-season.

Ok, so only one other cedar fair park has dorms and someone the only answer for geauga lake is to build dorms?

I personally doubt they will have any problems staffing the park this season.

Many good points brought out by oldschool...

...one of the reasons CF took the labor broom in to GL was an attempt to change the very nature of the current labor pool.

I tend to want to agree with this statement. As eightgotthree says, finding employment for GL shouldn't be an issue for CF. The company's real concern isn't going to be how to find people to hire, but rather who they are going to hire.

Between the company's (generally) strict employee policies and its international program, I don't see it taking them very long to establish a good seasonal workforce.

Right... it's more about culture change than anything else I'm sure. That and years of mediocre fiscal performance under Six Flags.

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oldschool said:
Of course, it merely reflects America in general. Some believe in true capitalism and free markets. Some believe in the rights of employees, and their ability to earn a "living wage".

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"Of course," even more people fall into the somewhere-in-between camp, because life if far from a black-and-white issue.

I'll be avoiding the chaos this weekend, but I can't wait to hear how it goes!

Geauga Lake or any other seasonal amusement park is not the place to go to earn a living wage. It is a SEASONAL JOB! How difficult is that to comprehend?

I worked at amusement parks all through college. I banked some money but I still ended up getting jobs on campus during the school year. I drove a used car, ate cheap, didn't spend friviously...even on my girlfriends, and I survived.

I said it in an earlier post. Some of these kids that quit likely did the right thing. They could go on summer after summer with minimal increases but not really making decent wages...hoping to latch on full time someday. But those that do have that luck are in the vast minority. At some point you need to give up the dream and join the real world. I would bet you anything that in some cases this was a bitter pill for these folks to swallow but it will end up being the best thing for them in the long run. *** Edited 4/29/2004 5:13:42 PM UTC by wahoo skipper***

Jeff: My post that referenced true capitalism and living wage were merely 2 areas that seemed to be an underlying and yet unspoken theme from posters. Life in general has shown us the majority of the "unspoken" people are indeed in the middle of a subject.

Wahoo: My use of the phrase "living wage" was just a point that I highlighted, that I was pulling from some of the posters on this particular topic.

In the end, one should look at the company that comes in and is making changes, and their track record. Also, for those on the inside and with an interest, they will know what is what if they see some CF/CP people located at GL. While this may be the Amusement Industry, there are things that work and do not work in a majority of corporate settings. Sure, there are unique situations for each sector, but people will know by mid June how things are being set-up and the direction of things.

oldschool, you bring up good points.

"Companies several years ago have been working with a predetermined wage guide within their corporate structure, that has defined levels. This was borne out from several companies losing labor disputes in the past."

This one makes the most sense to me. If there is a standard wage that they are unwilling to deviate from then that's that. On the other hand:

"I believe one of the reasons CF took the labor broom in to GL was an attempt to change the very nature of the current labor pool."

I understand where you are going with this. Drive out the bad ones, bring in new people and change the culture. All well fine, and good. And i can see how CF would think along these lines. But i see a flaw in it, in that IF what was at the park was the best to be pulled from the labor pool south east of Cleveland at that wage scale, how can lowering the scale improve the selection of the pool? If anything it will turn off more people and make it that much harder to find decent help.

What i don't understand is how people can say that the park won't have any trouble finding help. Sure unemployment is up, but nowhere near as much as in the past. There is still a lot of competition out there in all sectors of "summer job" type work. Even CP has problems getting fully staffed and they rely more upon the foreign/college imports. In fact i can't think of any park out there (that i know of) that has more help knocking at the door than they need.

I'm not arguing the need for "living wages". I'm saying that if CF wants quality staff they need to offer competitive wages, and lowering them doesn't do it.

meangene: I of course, am not speaking with inside knowledge of this particular situation, and my mere guesses could be off base. However, some of the points that I have mentioned work hand-in-hand together.

The need to keep wages within pseudo-even levels at CP/GL probably work in there as well. The ability to move help where needed. A corporate policy that by legal means needs to be objective across the board. Of course, when a corporation runs operations under different areas of the country they are afforded regional effects. But, I have a feeling that CF would like to see CP and GL on similar footing with respect to grades/levels/pay/structures. Of course, taking into consideration certain perameters for micro wage pressures.

For all I know, they may consider it a positive on pitching international employment to GL, as a good thing being in proximity to a major American city.

There are a number of variables at work here. Including the possibility of: An "inbred" corporate structure that the new company may feel, needs to change now.

Am sure CF has had experienced people look at the situation. Now, does that mean a perfectly smooth transition? Probably not. But, it appears they are putting into place what they feel is the appropriate employees to get the park into a positive transition.

In the end, I am not involved in the amusement industry. So, that means I am at a park to have fun. To extract enjoyment on the day I spend in the park. Taking-in the atmosphere, the coasters, the local feel of the park. Life is way too short to go looking for the bad. It is out there, and easily can be seen. A key to life fis finding and enjoying the positives of the moment/day. Going to be ups and downs at amusement parks. But you know what?

Even the worst day at the amusement park for you or I, is still 100% better than the person planted 6' in the ground.