GL Employees Quiting Left and Right

"Years of declining attendance" at SFO/SFWOA you're speaking of?! They were up around 40% in 2000, up another nice percentage in 2001, and lost attendance in 2002 and 2003 due to minor additions, bad weather, poor marketing, etc. Now, I would say the park was ultimately sold due to underpricing (season passes and General Admission should have been more), not separately pricing (the Wildlife side from the Wild Rides side), and overpaying workers it seems. They should have Kill Bill-ed the park in 2001 and they might still be going. They were also offering way too much and putting too much money into things than what they should have known they were going to get out of it (animals have to eat and poop all year long). I'm sure it was probably one of the most expensive parks to run in the entire industry and potentially the best park in the world... If it was managed by the people at SFGAm and located in Florida. That's my take at least.

+Danny

Of course Jeff thinks it's a grand idea.

I think the cut is the first bad idea CF has had. First the Cleveland market is a little more competitive than the Sandusky market, even for the summer type help. I would argue that SF was LOW for the area in attracting help. Look at the average seasonal brought on by SFI in the past few years. If you want top notch help you have to pay top notch rates for the market you're in.

Granted only supervisors earned 10 plus an hour, but then again one person may oversee an area that brings in over a million annually, or find him/herself opening/closing the park for their department. Even though they are seasonal doens't mean just anyone can handle it. When running a seasonal venue only so many full timeres can be handled on payroll, an amusement park needs quality, experienced seasonals who work more than three months a year in order to operate. And i don't care who you are, it is a hard pill to swallow to take a pay cut and then be told, "well i guess you really don't want to work here i guess" if you question the decision. Especially after you're told that you are a valued part of the team.

Has everyone lost sanity? If seasonals were making more than $7/hr., they were overpaid. You guys are making it sound like these are skilled union carpenters or something. They're teenagers and college kids. They need money to put gas in their cars, go to movies and buy trendy clothes. They're the same crowd that works at McD's, Old Navy and Subway.

And when combined attendance at the two parks was well over 3 million a year, I'd say that's a decline. Duh. What was Six Flags thinking? You don't see Disney and Universal giving away their parks for the price of one.

Since I started this.. it's about time I put my two cents in.

In the department I work in, they fired just about all the supervisors and the director. Most of these individuals have worked full time at the park their entire work career, they know the park like the back of their hand, and if I were the big boss, the kind of people I would want running this department.

Now we are left with one "supervisor" (I use that term loosely) and CF doesn't plan on replacing any of the fired supervisors in our department. They just want the one director position. Which was offered to this "supervisor" who has no experience in this role. From a safety/security standpoint God help everyone in the park.

I was all for the CF take over in the beginning as I know they would bring some things to the table that SF couldn't... Now, with some of the management maneuvers I have seen, it makes me jaw drop in amazement and I wish I would wake up and see SF still owns the park.

Something should be said when 75 good full time employees loose their job for no good reason. Something else should be said when over 100 good hard working employees quit their job. You guys want to see a cluster, visit the park on opening day (The Grand Opening and Ribbon Cutting) and see how many rides are down and how short staffed departments are!

And about the Cedar Point Police comment, they have been patrolling the park the past three weeks. *** Edited 4/27/2004 12:39:00 AM UTC by insider*** *** Edited 4/27/2004 12:39:55 AM UTC by insider***

Jeff,

Are you saying you would want some off the street kid with no experience making min wage running the ride you or your kids (if you have any) are on?

People have been making a decent wage at the park since the days of the Original Geauga Lake and Sea World. There is a reason for it and CF and the new GL will soon find out. *** Edited 4/27/2004 12:37:01 AM UTC by insider***

Look,

The issue is some of these sups were using the money to pay for school (books, room and board). They were expecting a certain wage and now it will be changed. That affects them! Your right you shouldn't be trying to support a family and such on seasonal employment. I would agree, some (a small amount) are building up there seasons during their college breaks to go full time. Some will get it, some will not. It all depeneds on abiltiy, love for the job, and to a degree luck! When the take over was announced the almighty "evil" of SWOA died. Some thought this was great including myself. But in the joy of seeing the park change hands, it seemed that some on this board contnued that joy to wage cutting and firings. Thats why i was mad. Hey, your right I don't blame CF cutting wages, they had to. But to say people that were sups were making too much is not right. I know when I was working as a sup for SF I earned evert penny of my "overly payed salary." Some may take it as an insult. So now that this debacle has happened anyone going for opening day?

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insider said:
Are you saying you would want some off the street kid with no experience making min wage running the ride you or your kids (if you have any) are on?

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You mean like every last new hire? Uh, sure. They get trained, they operate the ride with people who have operated rides before. Same thing happens at every park every year. So what?

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Something should be said when 75 good full time employees loose their job for no good reason.

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Yeah, it should be said that there were too many chiefs and not enough Indians, and the park still was a dismal failure.

Take the sales and marketing. I happen to know that CP has something like 40 in that area? GL had 75 for a park that did half of the attendance. You do the math.

I don't think CF is perfect, and I'm the first to cry foul when they do something that I think hurts business. I own a lot of units. However, one company is selling off parks and trying to get out from under $2 billion in debt and sad attendance, while the other company is profitable, has made a number of smart acquisitions in the past decade, has a soaring stock price (with dividends). I don't think I need to question which company makes better decisions in this industry.

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Most of these individuals have worked full time at the park their entire work career, they know the park like the back of their hand, and if I were the big boss, the kind of people I would want running this department.

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I think the reason they terminated these employees had something to do with the fact that they did know the park like the back of their hands. I think Cedar Fairs choice to elimintate these people was fair based on the fact that they do not want the park operating like it has the past 4 years. This is a complete turn around for the park and All of that starts with management.
Example: The restraunt that I work in has gone through 4 General Mangers in the past year. While the head honcho may have turn around Ideas and plans to increase sales, the employees are used to the quality of work they have been giving for numerous years and will continue to do the same. It's hard to make a change like that without changing the employees as well.

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Something should be said when 75 good full time employees loose their job for no good reason. Something else should be said when over 100 good hard working employees quit their job.

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Yes, and I say bravo. But I disagree with the statement, "no good reason." As far as what else should be said about the 100 good hard working employees... I see the paycuts as the company "testing" the employees. The people that are going to stay even though their pay was cut most-likely enjoy their jobs more than the other 100 persons. Cedar Fair is looking for the type of employees that are/will be committed to their positions in the park. You have to love your job in order to show that you love your job. When you show that you love your job, in the workplace, more things are accomplished such as the improvements that Cedar Fair is seeking.

Does any one else agree with me? *** Edited 4/27/2004 3:04:45 AM UTC by Cdrpntdrgstr***

What we have realized from this whole debacle of a thread.

1. Cedar Fair is doing what they have to do to make this park live up to its potential.

2. Not all former SWOA employees were bad. I take offense to this, because I busted my butt for Six Flags for two seasons. I loved my job and made sure people were happy with my service. I even read this site to see what I could improve upon. (TR were a good source.)

3. Get excited little improvements will eventually make way for big improvements and an overall large upgrade.

Can't wait to read some trip reports from this weekend.

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Take the sales and marketing. I happen to know that CP has something like 40 in that area? GL had 75 for a park that did half of the attendance. You do the math.

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It sounds to me that you think that 75 sales and marketing types were laid off. If so, that couldn't be farther from the truth. There weren't even 40 sales/marketing employees at the park before the purge, let alone after. Induviduals from every department were let go.

I still can't understand how anyone could defend the stance a company would take in demading an employee to take a pay cut to prove their love of the job. First, not everyone "loves" their job... that's why it's called work. Second, people work for a wage to pay their expenses, and if that income is reduced for no reason other than a "test" of their loyalty i don't blame them for walking. We all have to pay the piper. To ask someone to take a hit just to prove they love the park is rediculous.

I wouldn't say that all employees off the street need to get 7.00/hour, but there are some positions that demand that rate if they want decent employees. Of course positions need to be scaled to the amount of responsibility and skill needed, and measuring heights doesen't take much of either. On the other hand there are some seasonal position that need higher degrees of skill, knowledge and responsibility that garner higher base rates. Those are the positions that will ultimately hurt the operation of the park this spring, because those are the people walking. Not because they don't enjoy their job (or even love it) but because one day they walk in after busting their humps for the park (and their pay) and get their income cut significantly for their effort. Lack of seasonal effort wasn't the downfall of the park, that came from poor management from above (most of whom deserved to lose their positions).

Jeff,

You are a little off on your number of marketing employees.. If memory serves me correctly I think there was only about 10 or so people in that department and that included the interns. And again as I have pointed out in one of my former posts (and I think it was mentioned ealrier in this one) You really can't blame anything on the employees. Rick McCurly the SFWoA GM was a corporate cost cutter. All he did was go into each department and say yep, you loosing a third of your budget, but we still need you to do three times the work. Not effective measures.

However we all can go back and forth about this topic... Only those involved really know how it is, those who think they know, well have no clue.

My whole otutlook on everything in the end... CF will come in, spend a little money. Make some minor improvements and then shut the park down in five years when they can't use it as a tax write off. Then they will sell the 690 acres of land off and clear about $300 million after park losses and taxes (Do some research and you'll see for yourself about the land values). Then Cedar Point has closed down the competition and gained about a million visitors a year.

...except where will they put those million a year? Unless they build several people-eating rides, more restaurants, foodservice, etc. etc. etc., the park just can't support that many guests.

It doesn't make sense to close a park that was turning a modest profit even with bad attendance numbers.

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meangene said:
It sounds to me that you think that 75 sales and marketing types were laid off.

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It doesn't sound that way at all. I'm only illustrating the point that it's over-staffed.

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I still can't understand how anyone could defend the stance a company would take in demading an employee to take a pay cut to prove their love of the job.

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Uh, this isn't some kind of fraternity hazing, it's business. No one is asking anyone to do anything. You either take the job or you go flip burgers. Cedar Fair isn't going to be hurt or offended if you don't want to work for them.

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insider said:
You really can't blame anything on the employees.

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I can't? Do customers spending what little disposable income they have on a fun day need to care? Whatever dude. If I see some pathetic slacker trying to catch a nap between dispatches, putting my safety at risk, I blame the kid directly. He's making that decision, not some guy in the corner office.

But then again, you further illustrate my point. They ditched the people at the top and middle, as well as anyone else who thinks it's going to be business as usual.

If you actually think CF bought the park to close it, you're more clueless than I thought. I think I'll buy my neighbor's house so I can TAER IT DOWN!!!!!111

CF won't be closing Geauga Lake. They are in the business of increasing their operations around the country...not decreasing them. Cedar Point's attendance likely wouldn't climb much, if any, should they close down Geauga Lake.

The real money at Cedar Point will be in the continued expansion of the resort and lengthening the stay of the overnight guest. One way to do that in the future will be to have some type of package that will include a trip to Geauga Lake.

There are good people who work at Cedar Point and there were good people who worked at SFWoA. There are and were bad people at both parks as well. But you need not be a rocket scientist to hold most of the jobs at these parks. I'm not saying anyone is stupid but I am saying it isn't too difficult to train the next person that comes along. Noone is irreplaceable. It isn't a stretch for me to understand that the park would go to employee and say, "if you don't take a pay cut we will find someone else who will and replace you." It happens in all forms of business. Why shouldn't it happen in an amusement park?

As to skilled vs. unskilled positions, I would argue that the kids cooking your food at McDonald's are more important to your health than the kids running the rides at your local amusement park.

I don't want to belittle what the folks in the industry do. It was MY industry for many years. But, the ideal seasonal employee needs to understand customer service, be friendly and polite, be flexible and be able to handle crowds, etc. I can train them in less than a day how to check lapbars and push a button.

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for no reason other than a "test" of their loyalty

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Who said the pay cuts were a test of loyalty? Maybe they were just overpaid? No one has posted any numbers, but it sounds like they were paid much more than what is the norm for seasonals in this industry.

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Jeff said:
quote]Whatever dude. If I see some pathetic slacker trying to catch a nap between dispatches, putting my safety at risk, I blame the kid directly. He's making that decision, not some guy in the corner office.

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However, you can blame the guy in the corner office for cutting budget so much that the "pathetic slacker" has been working open to closes for 3 or 4 weeks straight because our staff was cut to less then half of SOP minimums. Some people need to try working 14+ hours a day for a month straight, without a single day or even a half day off. You get to a point that just by sitting your eyes start to shut. I do blame the guys in the office for the service the teams members gave. CF has been in the park for a little over 3 weeks now, and team members have seen the new GM more in 3 weeks then in 3 seasons. We dont have the cost cutting nazis running the show anymore. "what this ride is running with 3 people when we can run with 1? Send two people home!" Thats an example of the park under SF.

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XFlight said:

However, you can blame the guy in the corner office for cutting budget so much that the "pathetic slacker" has been working open to closes for 3 or 4 weeks straight because our staff was cut to less then half of SOP minimums. Some people need to try working 14+ hours a day for a month straight, without a single day or even a half day off.

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Just so people know.....the man isn't exxagerating, either. As far as I'm concerned, this has been the number 1 problem in Six Flag's operations. If you're a hard worker, and do a good job, management is going to try to suck every hour they can out of you, even to the point of working for weeks on end without a day off. I've seen it. I've seen people stuck on awful rides to operate for weeks on end, without a change in position, at all. Just your mandatory breaks, that's all you get, otherwise, you are at this one single ride, this one position, day after day.

Its a fine line. While you have to keep your employees working hard, you have to keep them reasonably happy, too. Just look at the way your average worker is treated at CP, and then SFWOA, and you will have a lot of answers right there.

"Some people need to try working 14+ hours a day for a month straight, without a single day or even a half day off."

Sounds like Ohio needs some labor laws. I checked www.dol.gov and noticed Ohio does not

1] limit the number of hours in a day an employer can schedule an employee to work.

2] limit the number of consecutive days an employee can be scheduled to work without a day off.

3] mandate that employers give their employees breaks during their shifts.

I guess the lesson here is that if you want a job at an amusement park come work in California.

mOOSH

There's another difference, though, 'moosh. CA parks are not seasonal operations, and the labor laws apply very differently to seasonals than to full-timers.

Brian - check out the DOL's website and check for Ohio labor laws. I didn't see any distiction made between full time, part time, or seasonal. Perhaps I just missed it.