GL Employees Quiting Left and Right
A quote of mine from the thread Impulse-ive gave above. In fact, there were two EMT's and both seemed to be very happy where they were, even with the pay cut.
I saw so many smiling and happy employees there, including one working behind the counter of the place we ate (the Juke Box?), many of the ride ops, and one op in particular who was off shift and rode Dominator with us. He said he was much happier this year than he was last year.
I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead
As to the wonderful reviews coming out at this point i'll say what i said for the last two years when people came back from opening weekend. It's easy to look good when the park is that empty. The real test comes when the heat is turned up (litereally and figurativly). However, I will admit that i would expect CF to fair better than the previous owner.
The fact remains: Cedar Fair is not obligated to have any similar pay structure from park to park. If that's not true, tell me why, because I'm dying to hear. The assertion that a company is not free to price its workforce differently from market to market is silly. That said, they do apparently make the system similar (base around $7 plus contract bonus), but it's certainly not for any legal reason.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Here is how the "bonus" came into play. Generally, there is no problem hiring enough people to open the parks, no matter what the salary. The difficulty comes in when trying to keep them toward the end of the season.
At Cedar Point (and elsewhere) kids would leave toward the end of the summer b/c they were burned out, wanted to travel, or any of a number of reasons. The bonus that accrues over the course of the year is a little cheese to dangle in front of the mouse. In August when the employees start talking like they are going to leave they need only look at their paystubs to see they will be giving up a lot of money if they do. It is hard to walk away from $1,000. (Of course, I had employees quit and give up their bonuses with only a few days to go so it doesn't always work.)
Jeff is absolutely correct. A company with seasonal employees can pay whatever it wants so long as it is minimum wage. (Actually, I think you can pay minors less than minimum wage.) Because it is a seasonal operation I believe they can even pay ride operators on one side of the park one amount and a lesser amount on the other side of the park. They don't do that though because it would be bad business.
The bottom line: Seasonal employees in most states have very little rights. I don't have any particular grudge against seasonals as was implied earlier by someone else. I was a seasonal for many years at Geauga Lake, had the lowest paying job as a college seasonal at Disney, and had a pretty embarassingly low starting full time wage at Cedar Point.
But guess what? I loved every minute of it.
Dave Dragon, go Dave Dragon, and the Star Force Five!
We interrupt this thread to bring you the Obvious Rule of Free Speech. Timpani, please?
Folks who complain about "Free Speech" actually resent everyone else's right to point at them, laugh and then laugh some more.
Thank you, thank you. I have spoken. Quoting can begin at any time.
We now take you back to the regularly scheduled topic...
-CO
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
wahoo skipper said:
They make the system similar because they know what works and what doesn't.Jeff is absolutely correct. A company with seasonal employees can pay whatever it wants so long as it is minimum wage. (Actually, I think you can pay minors less than minimum wage.) Because it is a seasonal operation I believe they can even pay ride operators on one side of the park one amount and a lesser amount on the other side of the park. They don't do that though because it would be bad business.
The bottom line: Seasonal employees in most states have very little rights. I don't have any particular grudge against seasonals as was implied earlier by someone else. I was a seasonal for many years at Geauga Lake, had the lowest paying job as a college seasonal at Disney, and had a pretty embarassingly low starting full time wage at Cedar Point.
But guess what? I loved every minute of it.
I am going to go against what I had posted earlier about not visiting this particular subject again. I have already stated that I do not have experience in the amusement industry, but I am speaking from experience as it pertains to the real world setting of a corporate structure, and what they must live by, as well as the practical side as companies must deal with not just the EEOC, prior case law, corporate attorney edicts, but also from somebody that has dealt with some of these issues, as well as being involved with above issues.
For somebody to state that a company has the right to pay anybody whatever they want is just not correct. I have dealt with summer interns hired in, as well as some part-timers. Guideliness are in place at the companies that I have been involved with for those employees as well. When a company has no policy or does not adhere to certain pay structure guidelines they are indeed setting themselves up for a potential lawsuit. Subjectivity without policy is just not found these days in a vast majority of companies doing business in the United States today.
This was but one aspect that I touched upon in my original musings.
As for the pay of GL Employees, I really find it hard to disagree with Jeff. If people don't like what GL pays, they can go down the street to McDonalds and fill out an application. No one is forcing these people to stay there.
*** Edited 5/3/2004 5:18:54 PM UTC by Word***
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It would seem after initial trip reports that I have read, "GL employees quitting left and right", may not have been a bad thing. Would have to take a guess that the postives will build from here, and there will be improvement with the potential for missteps and unpleasant days ahead this year at GL.
But, that is pretty much the potential for any company which is open to the public for business. The majority of the ones that can stay in business, are the ones that move ahead and find ways to not repeat the same bad days over and over again.
*** Edited 5/4/2004 1:09:56 AM UTC by Jeff***
This is the part where hundreds of other people dive in with posts that scream, "How DARE you treat Rookie like that! CoasterBuzz sucks! Jeff is a big (fill in the blank)! Down with his tyranny!"
Right?
You really are a Rookie, ya know that, right?
-CO
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
You have made about 11 posts in a little under 24 hours. I have made about 1,000 posts since 2001. While Jeff may have disagreed with me on any of a number of topics over the years, I have never been asked to leave nor given him any reason for him to do so.
The reasons I visit this site are varied but one of the most significant is because Jeff does a good job of moderating and discouraging idiots from taking over. There are plenty of other sites out there for those people.
Oldschool, I know what you are saying and I don't think we are that far from agreeing. What I am saying is that the company does have the right to set up their pay structure as they see fit...so long as they meet the minimum requirements by law. Yes, they need to avoid actions that might lead to lawsuit but they still have the right to pay what they feel like paying as long as it doesn't go against law. Maybe I am making this too complicated.
Cedar Fair does this. They pay ride ops a certain starting wage but they pay the kids in food services more...even if both groups have no experience and it is their first year. Cedar Fair has made an internal determination that Food employees should be paid more because the jobs are harder to fill. They have every right to do that. They pay lifeguards less than what a City of Sandusky lifeguard might get paid but as long as they aren't under the minimum wage they have every right to do that.
I am REALLY starting to like you. I don't think that it matters, because I am not one of the "in" crowed, but I just thought you should know.
Mr. Rookie,
I have figured out that just posting for the sake of hearing yourself is not productive to the descussion on this baord. I'm not acusing you of anything; just telling you what I have descovered. I hope you stay, just as long as you try your best to respect the rules around here. I feel bad for your posts getting deleated. I hope you understand the reasons why. Hang around for a while and don't post so often. I guarantee that you will learn a lot from reading posts here. Good luck.
And to come full circle, from the sounds of TRs coming out of GL, it doesn't sound to me like people are "quiting left and right". It sounds to me like the park was fully staffed. Maybe some people quit, but I don't think it caused a problem.
wahoo skipper said:
Oldschool, I know what you are saying and I don't think we are that far from agreeing. What I am saying is that the company does have the right to set up their pay structure as they see fit...so long as they meet the minimum requirements by law. Yes, they need to avoid actions that might lead to lawsuit but they still have the right to pay what they feel like paying as long as it doesn't go against law. Maybe I am making this too complicated.Cedar Fair does this. They pay ride ops a certain starting wage but they pay the kids in food services more...even if both groups have no experience and it is their first year. Cedar Fair has made an internal determination that Food employees should be paid more because the jobs are harder to fill. They have every right to do that. They pay lifeguards less than what a City of Sandusky lifeguard might get paid but as long as they aren't under the minimum wage they have every right to do that.
Yes, of course Ceder Point/Fair has the right to set-up their pay structure however they see fit. What has been my point of contention is how at times some posts in this thread had infered a company can do just about what they want when it comes to pay, raises, employment monetary thoughts. Does not happen that way in the real world. When CP/CF decide on the proper wage they feel will get them the necessary individuals to work, and not only work, but at a CF level of work, then they have every right to set whatever that number may be.
They do not however, have the ability to change that policy at will without substantiating those reasons, nor in a subjective manner at different times. We are indeed probably on the same page here, and in fact my replies on this particular sub-topic were directed at other people.
I think people may be surprised at the number of lawsuits filed against companies with respect to age/race/gender/whatever else can be imagined as it pertains to monetary and job evaluation.
Closed topic.
