Firehawk Coaster Credit?

This just in: taking into account all possible experiences and the most liberal methods of counting I'm now up to 1,225,006!

Beat that! ;)

Did you count Gonch's desk chair when it was at the store, and also the arm-less rides while you 2 were assembling it? And don't forget to recount it if he sells it to Jeff. :)

What if you adjust the height of the chair ride? Does that count as two credits?

I've combined the Dryer Ride and the Chair Ride. Our dryer sits at the top of our basement steps. If I sit in the desk chair and kick off of the dryer (yeay, its a LIM(b) launch) and sending myself across the floor and down the basement steps it gives a pretty good ride. If I am lucky, I will do a few inversions on the way down. Of course, a few months ago a wheel fell off of one of my two desk chairs and I never replaced it, but I still use that one occasionally. Of course, when someone is doing laundry I will have to wait until the washer and dryer are clear before I can do the chair ride.

It's just like having my own Six Flags park... Rough rides, crappy maintenance and long lines!

From today's CF press release:

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For the 2007 season, Kinzel reported that the company will be investing $83 million in capital improvements at its 18 locations, highlighted by the addition of a new world-class roller coaster at Cedar Point and new thrill rides at Kings Island, Knott’s Berry Farm and Valleyfair.

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This is horrible HORRIBLE news for coaster counters.

No you may not count Firehawk again...nor can you count Renegade or Sierra Sidewinder. They--much like S:TE--are only thrill rides.

Sorry.

-CO

Mmmmmmmmm Offseason. YAY! :)

Did Moosh count the rides over various "tracks" when his shopping-cart separated from the MoJ?

Well, at least they're being honest and not trying to pass Firehawk as a world-class ride. Then again, I would think that Renegade would fit into that category.

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Lord Gonchar said:
That's ok, I just scored 7 more credits rolling around the house on my desk chair.

Wheeeee!!!!

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I thought that only counted when you ride it down a flight or two of stairs, using an escalator a lift drive.
;)

OK....this is going to be a retarded question for all of you, Im sure, but what exactly is "coaster credit"?

Is it just a tally of the different coasters you've ridden?

***Puts on his flame retardent suit***

^ Yes, it's just the number of different coasters you've ridden...

HOW you arrive at that number (define coaster, define different, define ridden)...is QUITE variable... ;)

I've heard of people *counting* rides that were closed the day they visited the park..."since I made the effort to ride it". THAT...is just wacky...to me...

Q: So, how WAS your ride on ****?
A: Pretty boring, never made it up the lift... :)

Uh...yeah. That's like me saying, "well, I would LIKE to ride Expedition G-Force, but I couldn't quite make it to Europe, but I watched the POV on YouTube so I get credit.

Hmm. I'll have to add mine up. Let's see...

Probably low for around here: 59

As gator said, there are many different ways to arrive at your tally. This thread originally started as a discussion about whether or not to count Firehawk as another coaster if you already rode it when it was X-Flight at Geauga Lake.

Some people are very conservative, others are pretty wacky. I've never heard or anyone counting a ride they INTENDED on riding by traveling to the park (are you serious, Bill?) but I do know of people who've counted a coaster twice because they rode it before and after it was repainted. I also know of someone who counted KI's Racer before and after the last speed hill was removed. To me, that's a little extreme, but to each his/her own.

Well, I'll throw in my two cents.

I think in order to get credit for "Firehawk" you need to ride Firehawk, not X-Flight. It will be different, but here's my thinking as to "why".

Part of a coaster experience (of course) is beyond just the ride itself. There is the queue, the station, the music, the pictures, the theming (if any)...all of which add to up a total ride "experience" which would go into you're personal rating of a coaster. For example, Disaster Transport to me is now about a 1 out of 10 coaster. However, back "in it's day" as Avalanche Run, and even its early days as DT, it was about a 6 out of 10. It's a different coaster now.

So, in my opinion, you cannot claim credit for a coaster you have not ridden. Firehawk will be a different ride experience than X-Flight was.

Exactly.

I think most people will count X-Flight if they rode X-Flight, and hold off on counting Firehawk until they ride it... if they ride it. The thing is, some people will count Firehawk as an additional coaster ridden while others will "replace" their X-Flight credit with a Firehawk credit. I'll do the latter, but I can understand why some people feel differenly about it (the whole "different park, different conditions, different ride" thing).

^ I guess "I'll do the latter" too.

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Part of a coaster experience (of course) is beyond just the ride itself. There is the queue, the station, the music, the pictures, the theming (if any)...

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Now perhaps theming (if it is an enclosed coaster)... but queue? Station? Music?

I'm sure someone might argue about counting HP's Wildcat again since it is getting M-Flyer trains. To me, that would make a greater difference in that ride than a new location/new park will make for X-flight / Firehawk. But i am still only going to count Wildcat once.

When it comes to the other PKI coaster that is making a big change... SOB... well, if I would ever ride it again, I would not count it again... removing one element (the loop) doesn't make it a different coaster. HOWEVER... I did count Steel Phantom and Phantom's Revenge as two different coasters. Had they just removed a loop or something from SP, then no, I would not have... but completely redesigning the second half (or is it 2/3?) of the ride to me classifies it as a different coaster.

I suppose the thing that each individual has to ask is...

Is this a coaster that has been "tweeked"? (in my opinion, SOB sans loop)

OR

Is this a new coaster using parts of an older coaster? (in my opinion, SP and Phantoms Revenge)

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OhioStater said:
OK....this is going to be a retarded question for all of you, Im sure, but what exactly is "coaster credit"?

Is it just a tally of the different coasters you've ridden?

***Puts on his flame retardent suit***

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Don't forget all the negative connotations that the word credit has as well. Some examples are real, some are based on other's experiences. Some exaggeration also follows:

1)The kiddie coaster that either involves borrowing a kid or having special priviledges during an event credit:

I would never stoop so low as to ride a kiddie coaster, like say for example, riding Taxi Jam at an ACE event--Oh, wait a minute, I did last year!

2) The Clone with multiple offspring credit:

Even though I have twenty boomerang credits, I waited an hour more at park X to get another one.

3) The "This is going to hurt really bad or suck or both" credit.

Even though this coaster has a really bad reputation for being rough and having an extremely stupid up-and-down triple helix, I still rode The Rattler.

4) The "Holy crap, I can't believe I got the coaster that is never open on my (fill-in-the-blank no. of visits)" credit

I went to SFOG and finally got the Deja Vu credit on my 15th trip.

5) and lastly--The ride that is open, but breaksdown constantly credit.

We waited in line for five-hours to ride Kingda Ka due to multiple breakdowns.

Part of a coaster experience (of course) is beyond just the ride itself.

Every seat on every train offers a different experience. So does riding in the morning versus at night. So does in the sun and in the rain. Heck, so does whomever you sits on the train with you!

Where do you draw the line?

For me, I draw the line at diferent park, and the main reason, besides the vague "different park, different experience" argument, is the case of Mamba/Steel Force.

I have not had a chance to ride Mamba in person yet, but when I saw a POV, my thought was "Umm.. that's Steel Force without the lake" (I was still "young" in my coaster experience and was around only 75 at the time, solely from Family Vacations. And no, I do NOT count the POV as a credit :)).

Then I started wondering why Steel Force was rated so high - in the top 10 for quite a number of years where I barely even heard of Mamba - since they're identical? The only conclusion I could come up with is different park, so there's different surroundings and thus a different atmosphere.

Here's a question (actually 2..) I'm sincerely interested for those of you who are more conservative in your counting: If an old wooden coaster which had gotten completely demolished were rebuilt from scratch using the original blueprints, would you count it? And taking one step further, what if that same ride had some minor adjustments from the original? (i.e. Flying Turns @ Knoebels)

Dan, Dan, Dan... ;)

Then I started wondering why Steel Force was rated so high - in the top 10 for quite a number of years where I barely even heard of Mamba - since they're identical?

Mamba and Steel Force are similar in their out and back portions but they are clearly not identical. The most glaring difference is their helices. Mamba's begins with a small, high flat stretch of track followed by a drop into a flat helix, as also seen here. Steele Force's elevated "flat stretch" is elongated with a small dip, as seen here followed by a helix that is aligned on an angle.

The only conclusion I could come up with is different park, so there's different surroundings and thus a different atmosphere.

How those two coasters are ranked has everything to do with their layouts and perhaps how they are operated. Even if Mamba was built at Dorney and Steel Force was built at Worlds of Fun I still think they'd rank the same as one is clearly better than the other. Regardless of the similarities between Mamba and Steel Force physically they are two individual coasters at two different parks.

But why should "similarity" play into the equation, even if any two rides are 100% identical? What difference should it make if we're talking about all of the Cy-clones and near-clones [Coney, Psy, Viper, Georgia, Aska, etc]? Or all the Galaxi or Boomerang clones? Yes, they are similar or identical in layout but not physically the same coaster. Try substituting the word "coaster" with something else. Are human identical twins one person? Are two people who look and act eerily similar to each other one person? I suppose one could argue that siblings are raised in an identical atmosphere...but to count them as one person?

If an old wooden coaster which had gotten completely demolished were rebuilt from scratch using the original blueprints, would you count it?

If it was carefully dismantled and stored, then rebuilt? No as it would be physcially be the same ride. For example had I ridden the Rocket in San Antonio and then, years later Phoenix at Knoebels I would not recount Phoenix. But if built from completely new materials using original blueprints? Of course. If a park rebuilt Rye's AeroCoaster today using the blueprints I would count it. Heck, I would count it even if had ridden the original.

And taking one step further, what if that same ride had some minor adjustments from the original? (i.e. Flying Turns @ Knoebels)

If it was announced that Dick Knoebels had purchased Euclid Beach's Flying Turns, dismantled it, had it in storage it all these years and was rebuilding it even with some slight changes to the layout then no, I would not recount it. But that is not what he is doing.

Did you know the famous London Bridge was moved from England to Lake Havasu, Arizona? It was dismanlted piece-by-piece and rebuilt. If I were a bridge enthusiast I wouldn't recount it...it is the same bridge in a new location.

For me, I draw the line at diferent park...

And that's totally your prerogative, Dan. I have no problem with your method and I appreciate you sharing the logic used to arrive at how you count. I just happen to disagree with you ;)

So now I want to ask you two questions:

1] What if Dorney decided that Steel Force would be better turned horizontally 180 degrees? The station would be where the helix is and the helix where the station was. They carefully dismantled the ride, poured new footers [naturally] and rebuilt it. It would change the atmosphere of the park as well as the experience of the ride. Do you recount it?

2] What if a company built two parks at the same time with identical layouts? In the center of both parks, amidst virtually identical atmostpheres, sat a coaster. You visit both parks and ride both coasters...how many are you adding to your count?

Thanks for the debate. I enjoy it. ;)

*** Edited 2/12/2007 1:40:25 PM UTC by Mamoosh***

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Mamoosh said:

1] What if Dorney decided that Steel Force would be better turned horizontally 180 degrees?

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Wasn't that the park's original plan?

Yes, it was. I can just imagine it all now. I'm picturing how it would be to ride it that way.

Cool...another credit for me. Score! ;)