Fast Lane is now Officially "The Flash Pass"
1) Beat the crap out of someone and take their Q-bert. Hurl into nearest body of water (a toilet will do if nothing else is available). Repeat.
2) Wait until SF sells Q-berts to all the other 49,999 people in the park that day, and slip in the "regular" line while all the richer and smarter boys fight it out in the line for special people. (I wouldn't put it past SF to do that either).
3) Enjoy time at parks that don't tell me they're doing me a favor if I only give them extra money not to wait in line.
Oh wait, I guess you're waiting for this. :)
-- Flashpass / Q-bot is 1000x better than some of the other things i've seen six flags "test" at the different parks the past few years...
I'm all for people who spend more, get more. In fact, more people might visit because they have that option, and leave cheap college kids out. I don't know. I might not like it, but others will. It may impact them positively, and it may not.
// just sayin'
n. pl. stand·bys
- One that can always be relied on, as in an emergency.
- A favorite or frequent choice.
- One kept in readiness to serve as a substitute.
So basically, at some point in the history of Q Bot, everyone, except those who use the Q Bot system, are now offically thought of as substitutes. Glad to see that the general public are thought of last.
And a frequent choice - as in, "Frequently riders from the stand-by line fill coaster trains while occassionally a q-bot user will board."
Best part is that I'm not sure if SF uses "stand-by" to define the normal line. It's Disney that uses that term publically.
Bring me the frozen head of Walt Disney!
Using Disney terminology IS approriate, because to do this right without hurting the percieved value of the stand-bys, you're gonna need some staff person "distracting" them while the Botters get on the coaster, or at least merging the lines in a Disney-friendly sort of way....;)
LOL! :)
A great debate for those who look at it AS a fun debate....and certainly, I think some of us WILL be surprised at the End-of-Year data from SF (well, what we can get hold of, anyway)...Wow am I a geek - *and* I love this industry, like a fat kid loves cake...
P.S. I am on a mission to use that expression, daily, until someone forces me to stop...
Dexter:
They do have the same opportunity they just have chosen not to pay for it. The park owns the place they can decide how to sell it. If you want to pay for the lowest level of service, don't complain. You know going in what you are paying for. If you want the higher level, pony up. If you can't afford it - welcome to America land of free enterprise. You need to save up to inmprove your experience. Don't like the way the park runs things - don't go and tell em why. Quit calling people who are following the park rules - line jumpers.
BATWING FAN SFA said:
^That's the way SFA does it<& I assume SFMM as well> they simply block off the row they intend to use for fastlane/flashpass & if nobody shows up on that particular cycle the seats just go out empty.
Nope. SFMM's FastLane system doesn't work like that --- the FastLane-accessible attractions do not have a specified FastLane only row to a coaster's coach. What it does is FastLane ticket holders enter a specified queue (not the exit) that eventually merges with the mainstream queue in the station house or close to the station house. FastLane riders then have to wait their turn to get into a row, then wait until their turn comes up. It doesn't gaurantee immediate boarding. FastLane holders at Magic Mountain still have to wait, but the advantage is that they bypassed the biggest portion of the queue, which on busier days can be up to 45 minutes to an hour which is what they're paying $3.70 for.
But that makes me sad that Six Flags America does that with their FastLane system --- having a designated row just for FastLane and sending a train off with that row empty if no tickeholders show up. That's just purely inefficient and dumb.
Paris said:
To those who think paying to cut is an ill of society have you ever been to a park just as it opened and run to the marquee attraction? Did you ever run past someone slower and stop to think that you are lapping someone who was there before you? Is this somehow more noble than the person who is lapping you because they are not only richer than you -- but helping subsidze your lower-priced admission by contributing more financially to the park that day? If the alternative was for everyone to pay $5 more as they come in and there would be no line reservation system would that be a workable solution? And if that's not enough because it turns away the well-to-do parkgoers so the park needs to hike that up to $7 or $8 a head entrance fee as you come in through the gate -- regardless of whether you have a season pass or whatever you paid at the window -- is it still a workable solution? Equality begins to lose its luster even if you hated Atlas Shrugged.
Nicely put.
EDIT: Combined two posts. *** Edited 3/24/2006 2:34:43 AM UTC by kRaXLeRidAh***
What it does is FastLane ticket holders enter a specified queue (not the exit) that eventually merges with the mainstream queue in the station house or close to the station house. FastLane riders then have to wait their turn to get into a row, then wait until their turn comes up. It doesn't gaurantee immediate boarding. FastLane holders at Magic Mountain still have to wait, but the advantage is that they bypassed the biggest portion of the queue, which on busier days can be up to 45 minutes to an hour which is what they're paying $3.70 for.
Let me specifiy that I'm not arguing in favor of these ticket systems like SFMM uses. This is paid line cutting. Quite simply, you get to skip to the front portion of the line.
I'm not saying I don't use them and I'm not saying I have a problem with it, just that it's not the same as q-bot systems. :)
I keep reading the argument on how Q-Bot holds your place in line or does the waiting for you, but that's still the same thing with FastLane, with one minor difference.
While the Q-Bot holder doesn't actually physically wait in line, he or she can bypass the entire queue WHEN THE SPECIFIED TIME on the Q-Bot tells him or her to make their way to the ride. FastLane is only different in that users don't have to wait for this specified "window" time to enter the bypass queue, but can enter anytime they choose -- but with FastLane, unlike Q-Bot, once paid for, actually runs out. You only get four tickets for your payment, whilst you pay once for Q-Bot, you can use it for the entire duration you're at the park until it closes.
Anyway, I still agree on the point that those that have used FastLane tend to not think so negatively about premium boarding opportunities, while those that have not actually used them to their advantage are the ones that dislike them. The entire argument pretty much just debates on whether or not the system is ethical or not, and it looks like neither side is gaining control of the winning vote. :)
Lord Gonchar said:
It's like the 'take a number' thingy at the DMV. You know - now serving #47. That sort of thing.You enter the line and get #100. I scan my q-bot right as you enter the line and get #101. I cannot ride the ride until #101 comes up and you still get to ride when #100 comes up. How did that make you wait longer.
Alternatively, I scan my q-bot and get #100 and right then you enter the stand-by line and get #101. I still can't ride until #100 comes up and you ride when #101 comes up.
In neither case did you wait longer.
OOOOH!!!
I do that at the grocery store! I never understood why people would go to the deli and see a huge line, then they all just stand there and wait.
If that ticker's on 26 and I draw a 48, by the time I get my cheese I've already packed my cart with enough Diet Wild Cherry Pepsi and tasty sticks of butter to last the week.
Just thought I'd add that.
Go Wolverines.*
-kpjb
*(Reference to Red Dawn, not some basketball thing.)
Hi
kRaXLeRidAh said:
While the Q-Bot holder doesn't actually physically wait in line, he or she can bypass the entire queue WHEN THE SPECIFIED TIME on the Q-Bot tells him or her to make their way to the ride. FastLane is only different in that users don't have to wait for this specified "window" time to enter the bypass queue, but can enter anytime they choose -- but with FastLane, unlike Q-Bot, once paid for, actually runs out. You only get four tickets for your payment, whilst you pay once for Q-Bot, you can use it for the entire duration you're at the park until it closes.
Because I can technically walk in the park at peak hour, pick up the tickets and while everyone is waiting an hour or more per ride, I can skip from ride to ride waiting little more than 10 minutes at each.
With Q-bot, it's still going to be an hour before I get my first ride (whether it's a virtual queue or a physical one).
If you had to turn in your ticket and then return in the same amount of time that the line is (in this example, one hour), then it'd be the same as q-bot.
I still say the best solution is always the simplist. Run your attractions efficiently at least 80 percent of the time, and even those who hate( or can't afford) virtual systems can still at least enjoy a fairly fast moving day.
This discussion reminds me of hitting the grocery store earlier today, feeling so good because I finally learned how to use those express self-checkout lanes. To my surprise, so has everyone else apparently. The line was longer for self checkout than the regular checkout lanes. And of course the store in question refused to open any other lanes!
What's the point!!!
Lord Gonchar said:It's like the 'take a number' thingy at the DMV. You know - now serving #47. That sort of thing.
You enter the line and get #100. I scan my q-bot right as you enter the line and get #101. I cannot ride the ride until #101 comes up and you still get to ride when #100 comes up. How did that make you wait longer.
Alternatively, I scan my q-bot and get #100 and right then you enter the stand-by line and get #101. I still can't ride until #100 comes up and you ride when #101 comes up.
In neither case did you wait longer...
But I DID wait longer. Some of those people already have another number for another ride. They wouldn't be in front of you if they were not allowed to leave the other ride's line. If they were not in front of you, you would have had a shorter wait, and that is why it is cutting; "honest cutting", for those of you Q-Bot users pretending to be offended by the term "cutting".
I think we are seeing this from way different sides. I used Q-Bot. It made me feel dishonest. It made others feel I was being dishonest. They booed and hissed at me when I got on the rides. As I walked passed them in line, they gave me dirty looks. Under my breath I said to them, "I know, I know."
The amusement park was the last place all classes of people could go to enjoy a day together. Lower classes may have had to save up to go while upper class could just put it on their credit cards, but all were welcome. Just about everyone, except for the very poor, could afford a trip to a park at least once a year. Flash Pass has alienated those without a lot of money to just make due with waiting an extra hour in line because the upper class wants to pay to be able to ride Two or Three rides at a time.
I wouldn't mind one little bit if it didn't make me wait longer, but it does. There should have only been 75 people in Gonches hypothetical line.
If they found a way to not allow people who are already virtually standing in line to be able to get in another line, I would say that Q-Bot was a terrific idea. That would be a true "ride reservation system" that would not make lines longer.
Yes, SF owns the seats and they can sell them however they choose. I bet they hope no one figures out how Flash Pass undermines capacity at their parks. I can't believe most people haven't figured out how much it clogs up the lines.
And Gonch, I agree that you are very persuasive. I hope that I am too. All of our differing perspectives helps me to understand how SF has gotten away with this for so long without more customer backlash. I've really been enjoying the debate, and I have learned a lot, dead horse or not.
*** Edited 3/24/2006 7:28:13 AM UTC by dexter***
I don't agree with everything they do as a company and for the most park their parks are in the ghetto and whatnot, but you can't blame them for putting this idea into action. Amusement parks are a business, after all.
If CP did it, I'm sure you wouldn't be calling it "organized crime" - just because you're a cheap ass and are jealous of the people that spent money to have a flash pass, doesn't mean it's Six Flags' fault.
-Josh (this is coming from me...a CP "fanboy" and someone who isn't a strong supporter of fastlane, at all, and also someone who sees the point in using it on a busy day but thinks its a waste of money on a slow day)
Our frustrations and disappointments should not be directed towards the unfortunate addicts fallen pray to this disease. The pushers are the problem, the suppliers of this instantly addictive contraption- the Q-Bot.
Six Flags has mistakenly assumed there no consequences for their greedy pursuits. It should be explained to SF that there is no profit in instigating class warfare in their parks, nor in warping the minds of our fellow guests with vitual queues to the point we don't know when we're cutting in front of one another.
In the mean time we should offer empathy and support, or maybe a Q-Botters Anonymous Support Group, to help our fellow coaster fans recognize their problem. Together we can stop this insidious disease from further spreading through out our national pastime, the American amusement park. *** Edited 3/24/2006 2:18:55 PM UTC by rc-madness***
Have you ever met a meth addict?
Sarcasm or not, you would know that your comparison is ridiculous. That seriously is quite possibly the most idiotic thing I have seen on this message board in a long while, and that's not saying much.
I watched a friend spiral into a nasty meth addiction that lost her custody of her daughter, she wound up in all kinds of legal trouble, and a couple diseases of all kinds. None of us have heard from her for about 4 years and we don't even knwo if she's alive..
I highly doubt a service that a business offers to its customers that is completely OPTIONAL will have that same effect.
It's the same as going to a restaurant and pulling up to the valet. Sure, it'll cost you $5 or more plus tip, but you get what you pay for. If the restaurant isn't busy and there's parking up front, there's no need to valet it anyway.
I am not a supporter of the pay per fastlane systems but I have said it time and time again, they are a legitimate business and they have the right to offer a [premium] service. I guess since synthetic oil that only has to be changed every 6000-15000 miles is a scam too, because those people with regular oil are getting ripped off having to change every 3000.
You can keep *****ing and comparing these minor "annoyances" to large, life-changing and DANGEROUS habits, and you can boycott the fastlane system all you want. I'll still think you're an idiot, and on a busy day, I'll wave to you while I'm getting on a ride, and you're still standing in line.
-Josh
But to continue to repeat yourselves (getting more over-dramatic each time) in hopes of convincing others just makes you look bitter and desperate.
The Wolverines and b-ball are still a year or two away anyhow... ;)
The "flavors" thing, I don't get...I prefer Diet Coke (just for the taste of it), but Diet pepsi is better than nothing...I should just drink more water, meh...
Back towards the feud, er, debate... ;)
"Ethical" or not, capitalism dictates that time IS indeed, money, and that those willing to spend the most money will spend the least time....how much do you EARN in an hour problably says alot about how much you're willing to spend to save an hour of waiting around...
Also, once I've spent on airplanes, hotels, rental cars, gas, admissions, etc., to get to a park hundreds or thousands of miles from home, that extra 20-30 bucks isn't as big of a deal (and *I* am the poor-ish middle-aged guy working for the State). Do ya think I'd spend the extra 20-30 bucks at say, BGT, where I've been LOTS of times? Not a CHANCE!
SF frankly couldn't care LESS if their park has 20 people willing to spend 10K each on a day at the park or if they get 10K people willing to spend 20 bucks each on a day at the park...THAT is capitalism, baby, for better AND for worse... ;~/
*** Edited 3/24/2006 3:49:44 PM UTC by rollergator***
kRaXLeRidAh said:
BATWING FAN SFA said:
^That's the way SFA does it<& I assume SFMM as well> they simply block off the row they intend to use for fastlane/flashpass & if nobody shows up on that particular cycle the seats just go out empty.Nope. SFMM's FastLane system doesn't work like that --- the FastLane-accessible attractions do not have a specified FastLane only row to a coaster's coach. What it does is FastLane ticket holders enter a specified queue (not the exit) that eventually merges with the mainstream queue in the station house or close to the station house. FastLane riders then have to wait their turn to get into a row, then wait until their turn comes up. It doesn't gaurantee immediate boarding. FastLane holders at Magic Mountain still have to wait, but the advantage is that they bypassed the biggest portion of the queue, which on busier days can be up to 45 minutes to an hour which is what they're paying $3.70 for.
But that makes me sad that Six Flags America does that with their FastLane system --- having a designated row just for FastLane and sending a train off with that row empty if no tickeholders show up. That's just purely inefficient and dumb.
Paris said:
To those who think paying to cut is an ill of society have you ever been to a park just as it opened and run to the marquee attraction? Did you ever run past someone slower and stop to think that you are lapping someone who was there before you? Is this somehow more noble than the person who is lapping you because they are not only richer than you -- but helping subsidze your lower-priced admission by contributing more financially to the park that day? If the alternative was for everyone to pay $5 more as they come in and there would be no line reservation system would that be a workable solution? And if that's not enough because it turns away the well-to-do parkgoers so the park needs to hike that up to $7 or $8 a head entrance fee as you come in through the gate -- regardless of whether you have a season pass or whatever you paid at the window -- is it still a workable solution? Equality begins to lose its luster even if you hated Atlas Shrugged.Nicely put.
EDIT: Combined two posts. *** Edited 3/24/2006 2:34:43 AM UTC by kRaXLeRidAh***
Well that is where the two parks differ in their systems I guess but the biggest problem with SFA's is...& I've mentioned this before that when the exit line fills up with more than just the designated two riders per cycle the ops will just let them take whatever seats on the train they want instead of boarding the people in groups of two on each available train.
Superman for example has a capacity of 32 passengers per train so if they get 32 fastlaners in the line at the exit ramp & you're next up at the airgates for your ride after waiting in line<playing byt the rules> they just let all 32 fastlaners on the train ahead of you resulting in you & everybody else in the main queue having to wait an additional cycle in order to ride.This effect is made even worse of course when the park chooses to run only one train on the ride at all times,which is how they make most of their fastlane sales to begin with.
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