Fast Lane is now Officially "The Flash Pass"

dex *is* right on this specific point jeremy...IMO.

Operations were NEVER stellar to begin with... (assuming no *bad intentions*/shenanigans on the part of SF to sell more Bots, which honestly, I'd like to see more solid evidence EITHER way)...with the stand-by queue, the handicapped queue, and the Bot queue all confused walking around the entrance AND exit platforms trying to decide WHERE they belong and how/when they load...capacity, IMO, has never been SF's strong suit...and with the Botting adding MORE complexity to the load/unload, and the exit queues being virtually impassable at times, it's become REALLY stressful for the employees at the platform. Not a recipe for a mess of good PR...

Which explains WHY I keep referring to Disney...you CAN have multiple queues, but to make them WORK properly, it takes two things: Staffing, and Planning...

Plus, even during the VERY slow time at Disney during Solace, BTMRR, SM, and Matterhorn were running *all available trains*...maybe there's a lesson in there somewhere? :)

Which one has SF traditionally excelled at? Neither!

P.S. Since you've posted while I was composing, jeremy...*sticks out tongue*...

Go GATORS! And yes, Joakim is not only one of the 5 best non-NBA players going, he's also a TREMENDOUS teammate and SOLID citizen...it WILL be sad to see him go, but honestly, how can his game improve if he stays and plays against overmatched oppostiion...

P.P.S. I'm crazed, sure, but I'm loveable...or so I tell myself... ;)

*** Edited 3/31/2006 3:51:57 PM UTC by rollergator***

For what its worth, yes, people should not be jealous, or look down on those who have more than them. On the same note, calling everyone who does not get QBot a "cheapskate" tends to imply that those with less are less, or cheap? That has been thrown around thoughout this topic and it keeps coming down to "those of us who are too cheap to get a QBOT." If I had the extra $ to buy one, I probably still would not. But just because I have less $, it in no way should make me a cheapskate.

What I find surprising is how some prefer paying for virtual queues instead of getting more efficient run all access queues systems for free.

I mean, without a doubt, those queued for Expedition Everest would get to ride sooner than those queued for Superman at SFNE who get to skip the line entirely. That's because Superman's one train cannot load as fast as Everest's four trains.

Financially the incentive for Six Flags is to keep the lines long while the financial incentive for Disney is to keep lines short. This encourages two distinctly different park environments. *** Edited 3/31/2006 6:10:37 PM UTC by rc-madness***

Still don't buy the 'long line' conspiracy one bit.

The new guys have pointed out why crap like one train operations and reduced staffing happened in the past - manager incentive plans.

They've also changed things accordingly so that operating a park in such a way is no longer beneficial to those in charge of the park.

Besides, crippled operations aren't the only way to increase line times. Another would be to draw enough people that lines and wait times stay at a maximum.

So asuming the conspiracy to increase lines is true, wouldn't be there be equal financial incentive to truly fix things, bump attendance and keep lines long that way? Now you get more gate (at the increased pricing even) and on top of that, the perceived need to guests for a q-bot is still there.

There was no reason for the crap operations beyond park management teams looking to increase their bonus. I'm sorry, the theory just doesn't hold water with me. The way I see it, they could exploit the 'financial benefits' of virtual queues even more by fixing things.

With all the serious discussions going on here, I just have to mention this. Is it just me, or does the name "Flash Pass" remind you more of what goes on at Mardi Gras than at Six Flags? Does a "D" get you in quicker than a "B"?

A "conspiracy" to me requires that all parties be aware of, and take advantage of, the same flaw in the system.

For a company whose maintenance departments and security departments aren't aware of such things as *private events after park closing*, I kinda think that that much "collusion" is virtually unthinkable...

Nonetheless, we've seen VASTLY different ways of running parks from the various teams running the parks, and unless/until I see *directives* coming from the new HQ in NYC, I tend to think parks will continue to run in their own distinct vacuums.

We have told SF *ad nauseum* which parks run well and which ones don't, nothing had been fixed under the old regime. I'm willing to give the new regime the benefit of the doubt for now, but come the 2Q reporting, I'd like to see some data/evidence pointing to more corporate-wide policy-making that results in ALL of the parks running the way SFoT, SFFT, SFGAm, etc., have BEEN running for years on end...

SFA, under the old management team, I can *easily* believe would pull a *stunt* like the one we're describing...can't imagine ANYONE enjoyed working there, certainly never SEEMED to...

I think 'inconsistent' is the best word to describe SF. Not just on a park-to-park basis, but also a day-to-day basis.

SFA was one of the few SF parks where we hit GR on the way out and left positive feedback. IIRC, it wasn't on the ride-op level (they were as indifferent as always) but we had particularly good service from office staff - both with getting passes processed and with a drink machine eating our money and not giving us cool refreshing beverages in reutrn.

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For a company whose maintenance departments and security departments aren't aware of such things as *private events after park closing*, I kinda think that that much "collusion" is virtually unthinkable...

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Not just an SF thing, I suppose. One year (I think it was 2004) at BeastBuzz, I slipped over to the restrooms in front of SOB just before ERT on Delirium and Drop Zone and was not only stopped by a security dude (who apparently didn't see the couple of hundred other people behind me on the midway) but also questioned by the gentleman cleaning said restrooms. I explained there was an event and as he shook his head his reply was, "They never tell us about these things."

*** Edited 3/31/2006 7:07:42 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

Reminds me of a couple of years ago at PKI on closing weekend. Jeff Seibert had directed us up the old entrance to the Beast for our last rides and a couple of us were stopped by a security guard and a woman and questioned a million different ways, until Jeff popped his head out from over the rails and waved. They're pretty strict about not going where you shouldn't.

Same thing with CP and frontier trail after closing. Don't even bother trying to walk that way. I've even been locked in by the police when I tried to go out the back gate. There were a lot of us and we were all confused.

-Josh

Yeah, they're just doing their jobs. Don't get me wrong, it's a good thing that they question you.

But with so many people potentially involved, I don't find it odd that word doesn't travel as well as it could.

No harm, no foul. Makes for cute little stories though.

Whether it is intentional or not, SF still profits from inefficiently run coasters as long as pay-to-cut exists. It’s less of a conspiracy issue than it is an issue about incentive. At $30 a Q-Bot, attendance can drop and still the park can make a profit. The long term loss in popularity costs are cannot be factored in.

So you think the additional q-bot sales from inefficient operations equal the lost gate revenue and subsequent in-park spending of those additional guests?

It's a nice theory, but it just doesn't add up for me.

*** Edited 3/31/2006 7:20:34 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

Gonch said: "Not just an SF thing, I suppose. One year (I think it was 2004) at BeastBuzz, I slipped over to the restrooms in front of SOB just before ERT on Delirium and Drop Zone and was not only stopped by a security dude (who apparently didn't see the couple of hundred other people behind me on the midway) but also questioned by the gentleman cleaning said restrooms. I explained there was an event and as he shook his head his reply was, "They never tell us about these things."

ROFL, I came *thisclose* to being escorted out of PKI during an event there. Again, NO ONE in security knew what was going on. Not even when they radio'd HQ was anyone THERE aware of an event. Lesson I learned? NEVER leave Jeff Siebert's side at PKI events, wait to use the restroom until AFTER the event...then again, maybe that's not the lesson I was SUPPOSED to learn?? LOL!

Reminiscent vaguely of the SFMM ERT and how the mechanics for X didn't know to come in early...;)

Seriously, anyone been to an after-hours Disney thing? We're so busy praising them for ALL they do right, I'm wondering if this kind of thing exists EVEN at the Mighty Mouse...I kinda doubt it...and frankly, there's NO reason that ANY dep't should be unaware of pre-opening/after-hours events.

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rollergator said:
NEVER leave Jeff Siebert's side...

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I think that's just a general life rule. :)

"So you think the additional q-bot sales from inefficient operations equal the lost gate revenue and subsequent in-park spending of those additional guests?"

Nice synopsis!

Given that Six Flags is billions in debt, is it that big of a surprise that the numbers don't add up?

LOL! No, it's not.

I still like to give the new team benefit of the doubt. I have to admit that they've won me over a bit - which is a long way from the bashing they got on the early podcasts we did.

I'm willing to give them the same leeway in a long uphill battle that I give CF with Geauga Lake.

There's a lot of damage to be undone.

IF SF was still living in StoryBurke Land, then I might agree, rc...but the NEW management needs to REDUCE the debt load, and quickly, so there's gonna be LOTS of changes. Increasing the number AND the satisfaction of the guests had better be Priority 1, 1A, and 2....

The new guys get a NEW chance to prove themselves...but if they think they have a long leash, they're gonna find out it's really a choke-chain around their necks...thaqt "Under New Mgmt" sign out front, it really only buys you ONE more chance. Incresasing prices, parking, etc., isn't really *the main issue*, the MAIN issue is making sure that they make the MOST out of the ONE chance they have to win back guests...

I never really had such bad experiences at a non-SF park, so giving them the same leeway to turn things around is very hard for me to imagine doing. I really want to see them improve, I really do, but it's hard to root for them when I remember all of the times I have felt like i wasn't getting what I paid for. I'm trying.

Brian Noble, I reread it and now I understand. I mixed up Two words and read what I wanted to read. ;)

Conspiracy or not, would it not be surprising if SF and Lo-Q have an aggreement that SF keeps lines long. The result is that they both make a quick buck without having to spend a lot of money maintaining the rides. True or not, it can be easily percieved that way.

When I decided to go and get a Q-Bot last year, my descision was made in Superman's line. They were running one train, and the man selling lemonaid to those waiting told me that the line looked to be about 3 hours long. This was at park opening. I left the line and waited an hour for a Q-Bot rental. Superman ran One train until about 3ish, when I was next in line from my Q-Bot wait. That took another hour, because the ride "broke down" while adding the train. I paid $30 more for a Q-Bot and still had to wait 6 hours to ride Superman.

It just seemed like they didn't want to get people on and off the ride(s) as quickly as, say, Cedar Point would. Now that we know the real reason the rides were not ran at capacity, or at least the official reason, it doesn't change the fact that at the time it looked fishy. A lot of people were leaving the line for the same reason I was, and to the rent a Bot like I was.

In hindsight, maybe I should have gone to a different coaster instead of the line to rent a Q-Bot, as I am hearing that Superman's line gets shorter halfway through the day. I rented a Q-Bot out of frustration that although it was a school day in PA, the park was jampacked with people. All of the larger coasters had at least an hour wait. I'll wait an hour on a busy day, but not 3.

To make lines even longer, KK was closed too, while their website was advertising that it had reopened after the major downtime. It just seemed like the best time to go and turned out to be the worst, crowdwise.

Edit spelling *** Edited 3/31/2006 11:46:22 PM UTC by dexter***

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Raven-Phile said:
Hey coasterphan, go away.

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But........

But.......

But........

I started this thread, and your not hte boss of me..................Unless you just bought a MeBot system, that can tell me what to do.

MeBot...HAHAHAHA!

That was quite funny.

I like your style. Someone shows disrespect to you, so you tell them what you think very subtly, and then make a joke.

Don't YOU go anywhere!