Fast Lane is now Officially "The Flash Pass"
I'm not debating the way SF operates their rides. We all know it's been problematic. I don't buy into the conspiracies that it is on purpose to increase q-bot revenue. Not for a second.
I saw little difference in the advantages of being a Q-bot holder and a FastPass holder. Seemed equally advantageous to me - and subsequently I use both systems.
I honestly see the pay option as more of an opportunity for everyone to have one than the free systems. One discriminates based on money while the other discrinates randomly based on timing.
There are lots of people in a day denied a Fastpass, but has anyone ever been turned away from a Q-bot? Sure you can argue that you can't afford it, but then why not argue that it's unfair that you can't drive a Lexus or live in a 3000 sqaure foot house or can't visit as many parks as the next guy.
You pay more and you'll get better seats at a show, a better meal at a better restaraunt, a bigger hotel room with more amentities, a nicer ride, higher quality clothing, more solid and better crafted furniture, high speed internet access as opposed to dial-up, more cable channels, and so on and so on.
Why is it such a crime to apply the general philosphy that applies to life in general to an amusement park?
At SF parks, your entrance fee now gets you basic service. Pay more and get upgraded service. Where's the mystery?
I don't fault others for doing such things when I can't and I don't condemn those who do when they can.
*** Edited 3/23/2006 7:07:45 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***
The park sells my balcony seats I paid for at the gate to you, then there's a problem.
But that's not how you can look at it anymore. The park sells stand-by admission. Pay to get in and you'll stand in line. You're never denied a ride, nor do you ever wait longer than you would have otherwise.
I go to the park two hour ahead of you, yet you and some Q-Botters step on the ride an hour ahead of me choosing any seat you want...
The very nature of q-bot is to make this not happen - and it can't.
Say you do get to the park at 10am and beeline for that 4 hour Kingda Ka line. I show up at noon with my q-bot and scan it. It tells me to come back at 4pm. You'll still get your ride at 2pm (after waiting the 4 hrs in line) and I'll get mine at 4pm (after waiting 4 hours not in line)
Granted, I can now leave my invisible doppleganger in that ridiculous line and take my real self off to ride Nitro, Superman and Medusa in that time along with grabbing a drink and chilling in the shade for a bit while your forced to stand in that line needing a restroom, but I didn't get on before you and in fact we both waited 4 hrs from the time we entered the queue until we rode - and that's the perk. That convenience.
Heck, why not pretend you have an invisble doppleganger yourself - and that you didn't pay anything for him. The only catch is that he's the one going off to ride other rides and relax while you stand in line.
You gotta pay the doppleganger to make him wait for you. ;)
(Disclaimer - Again, Gold Q-bot cuts that wait and it's a whole different beast. I can't argue that the Gold Q-bot isn't line cutting because it is, but I still don't fault the people who use it - it's just not worth it for me.)
Lord Gonchar said:
There are lots of people in a day denied a Fastpass, but has anyone ever been turned away from a Q-bot?
Not the day I was at SFNE last year....*everyone* had a Q-bot...sorta seemed like it would detract from their "perceived value"...
Wait, what was the purpose of those things again? ;)
LOL! :)
*** Edited 3/23/2006 8:14:35 PM UTC by rollergator***
Because a park that uses Flashpass has a higher virtual attendance, this makes the park seem more crowded, which is the whole problem virtual Queues are trying to fix in the firts place. I see it as a solution that is making the problem worse in the name of profits.
Better hotels rooms are offered for a higher price to those who do not like low quality hotel rooms, but it doesn't add to the problem of low quality hotel rooms. Flashpass is a totally different animal.
I believe that Lo-Q knows what kind of problems their product has but chooses not to address them. Maybe Lo-Q should get out of their agreement with SF since SF is running their rides at low capacity and causing people to get aggravated with their company.
And I will end on a positive note...Maybe SF is going to change their capacity problems this year and Q-Bot will work much better without hassle.
General Admission: wait in line sit where you choose.
Flashpass: get out of the lines and ride where the ride ops tell you. (odds are it's a set row/car)
Flashpass gold: get out of the lines, wait less time and ride where the ride ops tell you. (odds are it's a set row/car)
VIP Self-Guided: Get out of line ride where and when ops tell you.
VIP Guided: Get out of line ride where and when ops tell you and have someone lead you around the park.
Each level of service is supposed to be an upgrade over the cheaper ones and when run by design this should be true. Just like the services at the show/concert/hotel should get better as price increases. *** Edited 3/23/2006 8:43:05 PM UTC by dragonoffrost***
Lo-Q makes everyone who does not rent a Q-Bot wait longer.
No it doesn't. That is entirely untrue. In the long run it may make everyone wait longer, but those without a Q-bot wait no longer than someone with.
Let me try a different approach.
It's like the 'take a number' thingy at the DMV. You know - now serving #47. That sort of thing.
You enter the line and get #100. I scan my q-bot right as you enter the line and get #101. I cannot ride the ride until #101 comes up and you still get to ride when #100 comes up. How did that make you wait longer.
Alternatively, I scan my q-bot and get #100 and right then you enter the stand-by line and get #101. I still can't ride until #100 comes up and you ride when #101 comes up.
In neither case did you wait longer.
It works no matter how close or far apart we enter the line. Say you get #100 and I come along 20 minutes later and get #472. I still can't ride until number #472 comes up - which will be roughly the same 20 minutes after you ride.
On the same note, if I scan my Q-bot and get #100 and you come by 20 minutes later and get #462, it may appear that I'm cutting, but I already got my number. I cannot ride before #100 comes up and I didn't increase your wait at all. You still ride when #472 comes up roughly 20 minutes later. Exactly in the order we arrived at the queue.
Like I said, I'll even give that the fact that I can be in line in two spots increases wait times park-wide, but you're still riding exactly when it's your turn in line for any given ride and no one is cutting ahead of you. It's no different than visiting the park on a crowded day vs a less crowded one - but even the q-bot users are waiting the same increased time to ride.
(did that horse get up yet?)
It must be great to sit, contemplate when other parks will see the genius of FlashPass. Obviously, their aversion to this successful strategy is just another example of the brotherly love existing between competing amusement parks, helping an injured giant to their feet by allow Six Flags this whole success pie to themselves.
Until I get my own Q-Bot (or alternate reality) I guess I’m stuck thinkin’ pay-to-cut is just a big, steaming pile of poo. *** Edited 3/23/2006 8:44:40 PM UTC by rc-madness***
Lord Gonchar said:
Lo-Q makes everyone who does not rent a Q-Bot wait longer.No it doesn't. That is entirely untrue. In the long run it may make everyone wait longer, but those without a Q-bot wait no longer than someone with.
Let me try a different approach (snip)....(did that horse get up yet?)
Gonch,
You better check your forhead, I think it's bleeding from repeatedly banging it against the wall. No matter how many different ways you try to explain it (and quite well I might add) the people who think "Flash-dance" is line cutting just won't change their minds.
-Tambo (running to the medice cabinet for band-aids foe Gonch)
*** Edited 3/23/2006 8:55:04 PM UTC by tambo***
Why am I reminded of the last time the TV remote fell between the couch cushions and I couldn't change the channel until I found it?
:)
Lord Gonchar said:There are lots of people in a day denied a Fastpass, but has anyone ever been turned away from a Q-bot?
SFGAdv has run out of the actual q-bots on occasion, at least when they first implemented it. That’s one of the follies of every virtual queue system; if you are not there early you will get turned away regardless if you want to shove out money for a q-bot, or your left arm for a freeway stamp ;).
I suppose though if one is educated on the matter, they will know to get there early for the best treatment. Since we're on a analogy tear, I would equate it to buying concert or sporting event tickets early on to get the best seats.
HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION:
* I refuse to get a q-bot
> 400 people reserve a ride at superman (45 min wait)
> those 400 people, who would have been riding superman, decide they want to ride predator, the next closest coaster (30 min wait) while they wait for superman.
Those 400 people who were "IN LINE" for superman are now in line for predator. those are 400 people that "should" not be there.
how is that NOT making my line for predator longer? the time I would normally get on predator has increased, because 400 more people are in line since the whole "double dip" ride situation is in effect, so it HAS, in effect, increased wait times.
~~
also:
*IF* the q-bot does in fact schedule you the right time to come back, then you will in fact get 2 rides of the price of one if you decide to reserve your place, and then go in the normal line to ride. -- since you supposedly get 15 min to claim your ride. Line is now longer, and q-bot people get 2 rides for the price of one... if the system is working correctly, hypotehtically (i don't have any experience).
~~
also:
WHAT I FEEL IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM W/ FASTLANE / QBOT...
> public perception. It LOOKS as if people are cutting in front of you. It doesn't matter WHAT they are ACTUALLY doing, if sombody is giving their seat up after waiting for an hour, to sombody who came through the exit, or people merging from a seperate queue line, or even seats blocked off to people with some special pass, I don't care if they've waited 1 hour out of the line or not, i'm still gonna be pissed off.
ACTUAL EXPERIENCE
> I just made it so 2 groups went ahead of me so I could ride at the same time as my friends, and now mr q-bot takes my place because they want to ride my row and screws up the situation again. That makes me angry again, and gives the park another negative view, IMO.
With holiday world, we get "precieved value" with free soft drinks, etc. With six flags, we get "PRECIEVED line cutting", which diminishes the value for those who do not use the system... you can get statistical all you want about how people aren't cutting, etc -- but if the public doesn't understand it doesn't mean jack. -- this argument wouldn't even come up if sombody wasn't inconvenienced in some way.
I've been inconvenienced more than once by "fastlane folk" in the past. I don't know how, ethically, one could just snag the same seat from sombody who has been waiting an hour in that line (with the one way of doing it, anyways)
I understand that different systems were being tested at different SF parks and some things have changed at some parks, but it HAS happened to me, people HAVE taken my seat via exit, and I HAVE been inconvenienced one more than one occasion, and the more negativity towards the chain that occues because of systems like the ones i ALREADY experience, the less i'm doing to visit. -- But it doesn't matter because i'm just a college kid who doesn't spend any money at parks. (rolls eyes)
~~
Hopefully the people that use fastpass outrank those that hate the system and are dis-satisfied w/ their day, and six flags gets enough money to overcome the people who don't want to visit multiple times anymore... otherwise six flags will tank. Large families will not be able to afford q-bots for all the kids, and those are large families that end up becoming inconvenienced and don't want to return.
~~
Don't even get me started with SFMM's fastlane system (4 tickets for $15 or whatever) to cut in front of everyone... did they ever change that?
// alan j
*** Edited 3/23/2006 11:33:06 PM UTC by SFDL_Dude***
how is that NOT making my line for predator longer?
Never said it wasn't. That's exactly what Q-bot does do. It's like increasing the attendance at the park through virtual means. It's no different than if 400 additional people visited that day and got in line for Predator in front of you. No one cut in front of you - you still get to ride based on your order in the queue.
What I said a handful of posts up:
"In the long run it may make everyone wait longer, but those without a Q-bot wait no longer than someone with."
Do you complain to the park on busy days when you're forced to wait an additional 16 trains (400 people/24 per train) more than a few days earlier when you visited and it was less crowded?
It's luck of the draw - you never know how many people are going to be in the park or in line for any given ride at any given time. Its no less fair than you being able to wait just 10 minutes to ride first thing in the morning, but my arriving at 3pm and waiting an hour. We both paid the same to enter and ride, right? So why do I have to wait 6 times as long?
In the end, those without a Q-bot wait in line the same amount of time for any single ride as those who do.
Ideally, they fill those seats when no one is using q-bot for their ride on any given cycle.
In which case, a stand-by rider is still not 'giving up their seat', the q-bot user was already in front of them.
Or maybe I'm wrong about this completely and even if you're rolling in dough you will shuffle along the standby line on principle.
The one thing that is pretty evidend in this thread is that folks who have used Qbot or Fast Lane or paid for Universal Express Plus seem to fancy it and those who have never tried it hate it with a passion. That colors your opinion. How can it not?
Here is the question I would ask those who feel that Flash Pass is evil: Are you cutting in line, ahead of the folks outside of the park that couldn't afford to pay to enter in the first place?
Think about that for a second. I'm not talking about better hotel rooms or better seats at a show. I'm just talking about in or out. If you want equality, admission wouldn't be denied to anyone.
But it doesn't work that way. Even admission isn't equal. Some kid paid $40 for a ticket. The other went to the grocery store and bought his ticket for $25. One bought a season pass and is paying far less on average. Is someone paying with plastic instead of cash in front of you making your line experience longer as another line moves quicker? Is the person who ordered their ticket online and going right to the turnstile skipping those who arrived before him that are still waiting in the ticket window?
To those who think paying to cut is an ill of society have you ever been to a park just as it opened and run to the marquee attraction? Did you ever run past someone slower and stop to think that you are lapping someone who was there before you? Is this somehow more noble than the person who is lapping you because they are not only richer than you -- but helping subsidze your lower-priced admission by contributing more financially to the park that day? If the alternative was for everyone to pay $5 more as they come in and there would be no line reservation system would that be a workable solution? And if that's not enough because it turns away the well-to-do parkgoers so the park needs to hike that up to $7 or $8 a head entrance fee as you come in through the gate -- regardless of whether you have a season pass or whatever you paid at the window -- is it still a workable solution? Equality begins to lose its luster even if you hated Atlas Shrugged.
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