Fast Lane is now Officially "The Flash Pass"
Like they say; "There are only three sure things in life"
1.) Death
2.) Taxes
3.) Coaster geeks beating a dead horse
:)
-Tambo
Raven-Phile said:
Q-bot is not subtracting your access.You still get to ride the same ride, and the people who use the q-bots have still waited the same amount of time you have, they've just been off eating lunch or something instead of standing in a line. In essence, they've been in front of you the whole time, but their place is being held by a computer instead of themselves...
-josh
Do you really believe that? Look at the big picture, Josh...
While you are standing in the "stand-by" line, if you get out of line to go ride another ride, and then try to reclaim your spot in the first line, are you not line jumping?
Is useing Q-Bot any different?
It adds to my wait time because there are people in more than one line at a time. There are more people waiting in lines across the park than are actuially at the park. All of these non-existent people are waiting in front of me while their dopplganger is in another line, enjoying another ride.
Six Flags tells us that it is line jumping in Two different places; One, the company's definition of line jumping, and Two, the "Not exactily" answer to the question of if it is line jumping.
I think we already got over that hump a few pages back. Now we are talking about if it is ethical or not.
Gonch, We have different views about Q-Bot, but you really do make a lot of sense and I very much respect what you have to say.
Let me change my whole "poor me" story right now because reading all of these opinions give me new insight. I don't care that I can't afford it because I don't feel it is ethical. I am not going to get mad at anyone who cuts in front of me if I am not using a Q-Bot and they are. I realize that some people have more than I, or are willing to spend more than I.
I think that the real entity I feel is doing wrong is Six Flags. If a drug dealer isn't selling drugs, people are not inticed to buy them. I only blame Six Flags. I wish that they cared about moving lines faster because that would help me feel they were at least trying to make my day a good one. I wish that they cared more about guest experience and less about how much money they can sponge out of us to pay for what we already paid for at the gate.
I just do not understand how tricking your valued customers into spending more money to get what they already paid for in the first place is good business, and how it makes you look like you really and truely care about them.
So I blame Six Flags, and I hope they can turn things around this year. Maybe Q-Bot would not be as much of a hassle to non-Q-Botters if they start moving lines. I know Q-Bot will never go away because it makes them a lot of almost free profit. Will they run the park like they love their guests starting this year? That's really all I can ask for...Run the park like you care about my visit.
On a personal note, I don't dislike people with more money than myself, nor do I feel jealous. I'm sorry that I played that card. I have a very good friend whose family owns a multi-million dollar food distribution business here in PA. He's not a snob by any means. He's one of the coolest and nicest guys I've ever met.
I have been having a hard time in life lately, which has made me much more irritable than usuial. It's been causing me to not think clearly. I'm starting to snap out of it, but a little bit of my bad attitude still remains. Forgive me if I have been way to angry the last few months or so. I'm working to better myself.
*** Edited 3/30/2006 5:43:14 AM UTC by dexter***
dexter said:
If a drug dealer isn't selling drugs, people are not inticed to buy them.
I stayed out of this debate this whole time, but this one just got me laughing.
Dealers don't sell drugs, drugs sell themselves. Seriously, do you think if there weren't any drug dealers then people wouldn't be abusing substances? Then they'd just get messed up on household products and OTC meds (which some people do). Gee Mr. pusherman, you know I didn't really want any crack today, but since you have some I guess I'll try it. :)
On topic- I've only ever used the Disney version of these things. I don't make it to that many parks in a year and they are generally the smaller parks anyway.
Last year I visited SFGAm for the first time and thought about buying a Q-Bot. The crowds ended up not being too bad and I was able to ride everything I wanted. If the crowds had been big enough I would have definately opted for the Q-Bot.
If I'm visiting a park I've never been to or only get to visit once in a great while, I want to ride all the main attractions at least once (barring closures of course). If that means I have to pony up the extra scratch for a Q-Bot, then so be it. It beats missing out on some good rides because the main attraction took me 4 hours to get on.
I think it definately helps somebody get on more rides during a day, but I don't think it's reducing the number of rides that the non-Q-Botters are getting.
Well, at least not the majority of them. You know the ones who take their time walking from ride to ride and spend decent portions of the day filling their stomachs with all the sugary goodness and playing games (ie. average folks). Any time you lost by somebody 'cutting' in front of you could easily be made up in other areas if it's that big of an importance to you. On the other hand, if you're the type who runs from ride to ride, then you might get one or two less laps during the course of the day, boo-hoo.
Cutting in line sells itself? Okay. So are you saying that people are going to cut anyway, so LoQ might as well sell it to them? Gee Lo-Q, you know I didn't really want to cut in front of other people today, but since you are willing to rent me a Q-Bot I guess I'll try it.
Do you have Lo-Q's yearly numbers? Do you really know how many rides the non user will miss out on because someone else is riding more rides in a day than they should fairly be allowed? Do you know how many Q-Bots Lo-Q will rent in a day? Do you know the average amount of rides a person will get to use there Q-Bot for? Me neither, but from experience, it's not beneficial to a non-user.
If I go to the park and only get to ride 8 coasters, than yes, adding 2 or 3 more will improve my visit that much more. I would rather pay $75 for 10 or 11 rides than I would 8. Boo Hoo?
I don't know the numbers any more than you do, but I have an idea of how it affected my day last year when I got a Bot for myself to beter understand how it worked.
Two extra rides is Two extra rides. A non-user hands those rides over to a user. If Q-Bot was not there, I wouldn't hand over the rides I already paid for to you, and you wouldn't get to ride rides I already paid for.
No Boo Hoo here. I don't go to SFGAdv much. I LOVE HP, CP, and PKI. I feel like I am just as important in these parks as everyone else. I wait just as long as everyone else. It's the way it should be.
And I'll repeat this again, if SF found a way to keep people from Queuing for Two or more rides at a time, Flash Pass would be a wonderful, incredible, most valueable service and who cares if it is an upgrade of your admission? I wouldn't feel the least worked up about it at all. Raising the parks virtual attendance is the systems biggest flaw, and one that is unacceptable to me. If the park has, say 10,000 people and this is a very busy day, Q-Bot could raise the parks attendance to, just a guess, 12,000 or 13,000? That's my problem. They are trying to fix the problem of huge crowds, long lines, and poor ride operations with letting some people ride more than one ride at a time. That solution causes the problem to be worse for those who don't pay up, and twice as good for those who do. That makes Q-Bot mandatory for a coaster enthusiast like me, so admission to SFGAdv for me is $15+$60+$30=$105. That's a lot more than HP, Dorny, or KW! Why can't anyone see it this way?
How does this not compute with some of you? Q-Bot lowers the value of the non-Q-Bot-User. This point is overlooked every time I mention it because it is proof that Q-Bot is not helping the park provide a focused service.
It makes lines longer and move slower because of increased virtuial attendance. It does not help overall ride capacity because of some of the rides loading from the exit and other delays. It shows someone who thinks outside the box that the park doesn't show concern for the majority of it's guests, and favor those who do not mind adding an extra $30 on top of their admission.
I don't know how to word it to make some of you understand. I don't care that I can't or won't pay extra for it. I care about the how it's misuse is encouraged (They tell people to "enjoy another attraction" while waiting for your Q-Bot time). I care about how it undervalues the guests who don't want to use it (by letting Botters ride Twice as many rides, maybe Three times due to the stand-by lines being longer than they should).
SF would be just as good as a lot of other parks if they would just do what the other parks do, run rides at capacity. If they did that, maybe Q-Bot would work more effeciently. I just don't see them as a company that want's to make their guests happy. The majority of the parks guests do not rent a Bot. Getting those people to come back should be the parks biggest concern, not making a quick buck reselling the admission ticket and giving those who buy it a "perk"
Boo Hoo? I'm not crying. Remember a long time ago when I said no one wins this debate? That because people who can afford a Q-Bot do not want to do without it, so they will choose not to believe the basics of the argument. People like me who see how much it affects a park visit do not like it.
Tell me how it does not make lines longer. I'd love to be wrong about how I view it working against the whole point of getting as many people on the ride as possible in a day.
You said that you would have to stand in line a lot longer without using the Bot. Those long lines are caused by people waiting in more than one line, and the Bot is offered to combat the problem of long lines to those who pay. Is it really that hard to see that it's a scam. Y'all've been hoodwinked.
dexter said:
Tambo, why chime in if you can't join the debate? What you are doing is making fun of people who are discussing an issue you don't care about anymore with a running joke that has been going on and on for years and years.
Years and years? It only seems like years. Just like your tired "debate" that has now gone on for-ever.
We all know you think Flashpass is immoral and evil. So as long as you continue, so will I
Have a nice day!
:)
-Tambo
*** Edited 3/30/2006 12:05:39 PM UTC by tambo***
Tambo, why chime in if you can't join the debate?
There is a difference between "can't" and "smart enough not to."
Dexter, you should really start picketing outside the entrace to these parks. Round up the usual suspects, and get the people to rise up!
Good luck, though, because if you can't even get the cheapskate coaster enthusiasts who visit a dozen times per year on a $60 season pass to care, I'm guessing it's going to be an uphill battle.
There's a major difference between the 2 and I just don't understand how you fail to see that.
And if someone isn't in to doing drugs, and someone comes up to them with some crack in hand and says "hey man, want to try this?", all they have to do is say no. It's called willpower - the power to say no. The mere fact that someone offers it to them doesn't make them any more likely to try it unless they had some thoughts of already trying it in the first place.
I am looking at the big picture, and perhaps that's why I'm seeing this issue so clearly. I'm looking at it from my point of view, which is me enjoying myself. I don't run from ride to ride and try to rack up as many rides as I can before moving on. I take my time and play some games if I feel like it, drink a few beers, chill on a bench and do whatever. If I like a ride and want to ride it again I will, be it later in the day or whatever.
I am a HUGE fan of Disney's Fastpass, and for all intents, this should work the same way, but it's on a pay-per basis and uses computers instead of tickets.
-Josh
I'm just thinking about all the potential drug abusers out there that are just waiting for them to be legalized before they decide to try it. Honestly ;)
tambo said:
There is just one flaw to your reasoning.If you can watch movies on your ipod in line, you have enough money for Flashpass, and therefore would not be watching movies on your ipod in line! (WTF!)
Not nessassarily... I could be broke from spending $400 on an ipod ;) *** Edited 3/30/2006 7:35:22 PM UTC by rOLLocOASt***
Speaking of a Tambo, I didn't want to take that kind of cheap shot at Mr. Tambo, Brian Noble. Thanks for saying what I am WAY to nice to say. Tambo is being somewhat of a Troll. There I gave him some attention.
Josh, Flash Pass SHOULD work the same way as Fast Pass, but it doesn't. Is it possible that you are only lookin at what's good for you, and not at the big picture like you say? ...respectfully, of course.
I am running out of ways to be convencing. If Q-Bot wasn't offered, you wouldn't need it because lines wouldn't be a problem. It doesn't affect me though, because I don't go. My biggest fear is that all of the non-scam parks go forward with the SF plan of making more money by running rides at low capacity and then charging for the serivce of riding Two or more rides at a time.
I will tell anyone who asks me about SF about what a scam Q-Bot is. Maybe I should make a website about it. My opinion is based on facts. Maybe if enough people complain about how Lo-Q is stealing rides from them, than it will be fixed. I'm not complaining that it exists, I am complaining about how it works against everyone who doesn't use it.
This is really fun, btw.
*** Edited 3/30/2006 8:08:31 PM UTC by dexter***
Now, a scam would be something like selling them a q-bot, even though all the machines were broken, and taking everyone's money and refusing to refund them or provide the service that they paid for.
-josh
dexter said:
I am running out of ways to be convencing. If Q-Bot wasn't offered, you wouldn't need it because lines wouldn't be a problem. It doesn't affect me though, because I don't go. My biggest fear is that all of the non-scam parks go forward with the SF plan of making more money by running rides at low capacity and then charging for the serivce of riding Two or more rides at a time.
One: As I stated before, the SF low capacity and Flashpass are not cause/effect related the way you imply. Many SF parks had crappy capacity before flashpass was even thought up. Moreover, I do not think that you can honestly claim that any park with a virtual queue now has *worse* operations than it did prior to the virtual queue. I think that part of your statements is a straw-man argument.
Two: Are you saying that lines have never been a problem before virtual systems? This is, of course, a farce. Even at the Disney parks, which have, at least IMO, the crown of crowns when it comes to moving people through lines, one of the biggest complaints, pre-fastpass mind you, was simply that the lines were too long. The truth is, there have been a longfelt desire by the public to be able to experience the rides without the need for physically standing in the lines.
Now so far, everyone has just let it go that "q-botters" are 'always in two lines at once' and thus 'make lines longer for everyone', but I wonder, in practice, how true this is. Sure, I think it's a safe bet that the vast majority of coaster enthusiasts who buy them at say, GAdv, will reserve Chiller and stand in line for Nitro, but is that what the public really does? I know the one time *I* had a q-bot @ GAdv, there were several times that I reserved a ride then sat my azz on a bench and just people watched. Hell, the freedom to just chill was worth more than running to squeeze in more rides. I would not be a bit suprised if there was a significant number of Q-botters that didnt mind the 'passage of time' part of the lines, but rather the 'stand in a cattle call' portion. I'd think that they would avoid all the "big lines", allowing their virtual self to do the waiting.
Continuing down that path, why would a Q-botter be motivated to physically stand in any of the major lines? Would it not make more sence for them to q-bot the big lines and ride those rides that have virtually no wait (i.e. are not being used to capacity)? Or is that thinking just a product of my far-too-rational brain (actually, I *am* a rocket scientist thankyouverymuch =])?
jeremy
zacharyt.shutterfly.com
PlaceHolder for Castor & Pollux
I will only disagree with one non-opinionated thing in your above post though. You say that Flash Pass has not caused worse operations at SF. I find that somwhat untrue, because of how some of the rides have Botter loading from the exits, thus causing the airgates not to be able to be opened until Botters get on. It's mass confusion on some rides. Trains do not get sent as fast as they could in some cases.
Maybe my biggest gripe is really the same ol "SF is not running their parks to their potential" a lot of people have. Flash Pass may not look so bad if SF would just get their act together, which is possible under the new leadership.
Even if you are right about Q-Bot not being a dishonest way of SF to make big bucks like I think, it still appears that way to a lot of people and there is really no way for us to know one way or another. Do you think that SF would let just anyone see the info that would proove or disproove my theroy? That would be interesting to find out if I am right or wrong. I would like to be wrong.
Thanks for the insightful and respectful reply, 2Hostyl.
dexter said:
At least tell me that you understand what I am trying to say here, because I am starting to feel like a Tambo.Speaking of a Tambo, I didn't want to take that kind of cheap shot at Mr. Tambo, Brian Noble. Thanks for saying what I am WAY to nice to say. Tambo is being somewhat of a Troll. There I gave him some attention.
Troll? Hardly. Maybe.
Just because I try to inject some levity into the discussion and I'm branded a troll. I gave my opinion at the beginning (pro q-bot) and made the decision not to continue with the debate, knowing that this is like the abortion debate. That is, both sides are deeply entrenched in their views and no amount of "debate" will ever change opinions.
We got everyone's views 5 pages ago.
-Tambo (taking the poor horse to vet) :)
How many of you QBotters lend out your parking pass to family or friends, like I do(Although, admittedly, I am not a QBotter)?
Speaking of a Tambo, I didn't want to take that kind of cheap shot at Mr. Tambo, Brian Noble. Thanks for saying what I am WAY to nice to say. Tambo is being somewhat of a Troll. There I gave him some attention.
You need to go back and re-read what I wrote, because you missed it entirely. I was complimenting him. *** Edited 3/31/2006 1:42:12 PM UTC by Brian Noble***
And just because some feel there are benefits to Q-Bots, does that mean there is no scam? Scams take place when people believe the benefits outway the costs. It comes down to people's perspectives on whether repaying for access is a scam.
For those not Q-Botting it is more of a question of rip-offs rather than scams. *** Edited 3/31/2006 5:22:03 PM UTC by rc-madness***
dexter said:
I will only disagree with one non-opinionated thing in your above post though. You say that Flash Pass has not caused worse operations at SF. I find that somwhat untrue, because of how some of the rides have Botter loading from the exits, thus causing the airgates not to be able to be opened until Botters get on. It's mass confusion on some rides. Trains do not get sent as fast as they could in some cases.
Point well taken. You're right, they way they merge the two lines, in most cases, *is* a disaster that has a tangible affect on the ride ops. I think now is the point when some crazed Floridian will say something about needing the proper staffing, blah, blah, blah....
Oh and go GEORGE MASON! :)
lata, jeremy
--who really does like Noah though...
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