Enthusiasts on Notice
remember how White Sox Fans and Chicagoans IN GENERAL were vilified and called things like "barbarians" and "prone to violence at sporting events"? well, as a Sox fan, i was DEEPLY offended by that, as i have NEVER done ANY such thing, not would i ever think to.
and do you know what the "solution" to this "problem" is? (even thouugh it was only one or two ISOLATED incidents?)
if you have tickets in the Upper Deck at Comiskey (sorry, US Sell-Your-Soul Field), you CANNOT leave the Upper Deck!! you cannot venture onto the Lower concourse for ANY reason. why? because the actions of one or two deranged "fans" have spoiled it for EVERYONE. i dont know if those "fans" came from the Upper Deck or not, but because of thier actions, i now have to pay TWICE as much to go to a ballgame and enjoy the food and atmosphere of the main Concourse.
how does this apply to us as enthusiasts? think about it. a few bad apples really CAN, and have, in this case, spoil it for EVERYONE. Upper Deck or not, dont i still have the right to enjoy the ENTIRE ball park?
how would you like it if the amusement parks suddenly took on the attitude of "oh theyre from ACE or CBC so they can only go here and ride these things"? or they dont want you in at all?
behave yourselves, or this could happen...its happening here in Chicago, just not at a coaster park. its good precedent though.
------------------
mela en coiamin Legolas...
it aint the size of the arrow, its what you do with the bow
*** This post was edited by LadyLegolasGreenleaf 9/3/2003 9:23:54 AM ***
*** This post was edited by LadyLegolasGreenleaf 9/3/2003 9:31:57 AM ***
Just read your post. Hard to believe some people's rudeness: what a "Bung-hole" (favourite Beavis and Butthead expression, hopefully it won't get censored)! :-)
".an ENTHUSIAST!!! And I drove all the way HERE just to ride THIS coaster in the FRONT SEAT!!!" and that he was so furious that he wasn't going to ride at all"
Sounds like you had the last laugh-he didn't ride at all: talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! :-)
I'm sure you'd have been much more sympathetic and accommodating if he'd had a quiet and polite word in your ear. That approach has worked for me several times. The only thing I want raising my blood pressure is a Coaster, thank-you! :-)
*In Jerry Springer voice* Be good to yourselves....and each other! :-)
Michael Darling said:
Jeff, this is exactly the response I figured your piece was going to get. It's one or two folks who just don't get it that reflects upon everybody.As I was saying earlier it's the "it's all about me" attitude that so many Americans hold. Don't believe me folks? Talk to anybody in any other country about their opinions of Americans and I'll bet you Dollars to Yen that one of the first things they'll mention is arrogance (I'm too good to be one of the folks breaking the rules) and greed (this is going to screw up CoasterCon next year, isn't it?)
This attitude isn't limited to just roller coaster enthusiasts- it's found all over our society today. It's an attitude that is slowly running our society into the ground.
I applaud, I was going to say pretty the same thing about how Amercians doomed if we don't change are selfish, greedy, arrogant, hateful, irresponsiable attitudes. No one wants to take responsibility for thier own actions anymore, in America it's all about me me me and whatever I do stupid blame it on someone else.
Its sad that in America today you can kill your entire family and blame it on Tv/media/Movies and music. You can eat until your to fat to move and blame it on the food makers. Stand completely up on a coaster train moving at high speeds and the parks is blamed if your thrown out and killed.
People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions and that's exactly what this letter is about, no matter have you look at it. This letter is not about one person or one group in perticular, so get over it the few of you that is stuck on it's all about me.
Anyways if I were Jeff anyone that opposes the letter and can't get that one brain cell to understand that this is not a letter to piss one person or a certain group of people off would be BANNED. Because the stupidity is not wanted nor does it have to be tolerated.This is exactly why letters like this are being sent out in the first place b/c of stupidity and the lack of common sense people are using now days.
------------------
X...I still can't believe it wasn't a dream
I'm gone for a long weekend, and look what transpires.
Here's my opinion....
I agree that we as enthusiasts are at a critical point in our group relationships with parks, based on the actions of a few. What I am tired of is the vilification of rational self-interest that I see running rampant on these boards.
I live my life for my own enjoyment, not someone else's. Thus, I make my decisions based on what's best for me. You may call this selfishness. I call this independence.
However, when I make my decisions, I do take into consideration the effects that my decisions will have on others. I derive great personal value from riding coasters. I do not want to do anything that would potentially jeopardize my ability to do so. This means following all safety rules and procedures set down by a park.
When I buy my ticket, I am essentially entering into a contract whereby I agree to give the park my money and follow their rules, and they agree to provide me access to their property.
In the case of an "event", the park is providing extra services in return for a different kind of payment....good PR. The instant that a park feels that the potential for negative PR (from an accident, per se) outwieghs the postiive from an event, they'll cancel it. No tears, no hand-wringing. Just a simple value judgement.
I don't wish to be considered an ass just because I'm an enthusiast. I don't wish for special coaster events to be cancelled. I don't wish for parks to close because one idiot screws up and their family sues the pants off of the park.
To do my part to achieve this, I will always follow posted safety rules and procedures, and I will always speak up to others when I see these being broken. Period.
If you attach any value to the enjoyment of your hobby at all, you'll join me in being a good example during your park visit, and encourage those around you to do the same.
Later,
EV
-----
"Everybody has desperate days of quiet questioning.
Everybody has times when they feel like they don't fit in."
- Color Theory, So Many Ways, 2001
OLD CROW said:
It's called discrimination Jeff! I don't cop that attitude "What's in it for me?" I know my place as an ACE member. I've yet to set my foot into Ohio but I'd love to attend con next year and ride Ohio's great rides but it's much more fun with a great bunch of friends that are in ACE. I think to fire off a letter like this warning a club that may or may not have done something wrong is in itself, wrong.
------------------
No Lapbar, No Seatbelt, No Problem!
Well, I agree in some regards with Old Crow. It is presumptive of anybody to "single out" a coaster enthusiast group. I think it is somewhat a slap in the face to assume that we will all behave like mad dogs the next time we get to the amusement park to ride rollercoasters. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have a very important job and I am not about to jeopardize that by doing something stupid on a rollercoaster.
Bottom line: We're all not five year olds trapped in thirty year olds' bodies.
On the other hand, however, if the perception is indeed out there that the enthusiast community is "taking liberties" at the park then maybe this is something that we need to examine.
------------------
"That's DOCTOR Evil. I didn't spend six years in evil medical school to be called 'Mr. Thank You Very Much.'"
But we eventually did join in 1999 or so. And had mostly positive experiences, and met some cool people and made some good friends (including two who are apparrently the anti-christs of the coaster world, but that's another story). But I let my membership lapse this year. Why? Well, partially because my life is very different now, and I don't have the drive to go to as many parks as I used to (I took one four day trip with some friends, and went to Knoebels once this summer. That's the smallest number of parks I've visited in a season in about 20 years), but I've also grown tired of enthusiass behavior.
Granted, most people at events or whatever are polite, and the number of troublemakers is probably small. But that number seems to have grown exponentially in the few years I was in ACE. And I'm not talking so much about the defeating of restraits or whatever (aside from "one click" rides I've seen people take at SRM, I've never seen anyone take off a belt or anything like that), but of the whiny, demanding attitude, the one that says "i'm important and you need to acknowledge me NOW!"
I remember going to thank the PR person at Kennywood for putting on such a fun event (Kennycon) and an ACEr screaming at her about the removal of the Steel Phantom. I remember an ERT during the CoasterCon at Dorney where someone on the executive committee decided it would be OK to scream at another member because they were not getting on Talon fast enough for them. I recall at the two events I attended at Holiday World (one SRM, one CoasterCon) that despite the fact that the walkback allows you to pretty much walk all around the two coasters, people had to be asked to not go under/climb the structures. I remember screaming about food (or lack thereof) at all sorts of events. I remember people *****ing loudly because they were asked to exit the train and walk around during ERT. I also have seen satin-jacketed individuals on normal operating days causing problems on ride platforms, demanding special seats or brakeless rides or whatever. All this and more makes me think that the letter, while from Cedar Fair, is pretty much what all parks think of this behavior at this point.
As far as policing behavior goes, well, I'm not sure how much of this anyone can do, other than making sure they themselves follow the rules, and act in a polite manner when at a park/event. I'm not sure we need "enthusiast police" though I suppose I'll be more aware of looking to see if the person next to me has their bar down/seatbelt buckled. Of course, I ride 95% of the time with my GF, who is semi-terrified of coasters, so I don't have to worry about that...Anyway, ACE is supposed to have a code of conduct, but I have no idea how/if it is enforced, but I imagine that there has to be something in there about "following all park rules and regulations" or something. So perhaps they should make more use of this code, and toss obvious troublemakers.
Oh, on a related topic, I do think people showing up to events obviously intoxicated/high is a problem that should also be dealt with, but since this kind of behavoir is seen as "cool", I guess it will be ignored...
dt
Like it or not, pretty much everyone on this board is lumped in a group as an enthusiast, much like everyone who is a Republican thinks that George W can do no wrong, which I'm sure is not the case, nor do I think that every Democrat hates him, but you woldn't know that from news reports, would you?
All Jeff is saying is that parks are starting to take notice of "enthusiasts" and their actions,whether it's four of them, or four hundred of them, and their going to base their future dealings with said group on how the group as a WHOLE is perceived. So make sure whoever you are with is following the rules. It's a simple concept that shouldn't cause this much argument. I don't get why some of you are so offended by a simple request.
------------------
Goccvp1
I have more fun at parks pretending I'm a part of the GP. That's what makes the park experience. Waiting in lines, talking with friends, taking in the atmosphere around you, putting your lap bar down to your lap... I was chatting with some other enthusiasts last night about lap bars and how I never knew or noticed before the accident on The Raven that enthusiasts would keep them up that high and would take their seatbelt off to feel the airtime more. I love seatbelts on coasters! I don't mind if they don't have them, but seatbelts get me excited for the ride, any ride, from Beastie to Millennium Force. It's almost like another task you have to complete to begin your coaster adventure. You can make a lot of things fun even if they're not necessarily.
In all honesty, I like the restrictions of the lap bar to the point that the air almost feels like it's trying to rip me out of my seat and restraint. Of course, I'm used to SOB and people say I'm just asking for the beatings. ;)
Some of the stories I've heard about a select few (it's far and away not everyone) enthusiasts trying to get one thing or another the way they wanted *because they were in <this> club or just an enthusiast* is extremely silly and rude. If I was a park, I would strongly think about sending out the same letter. Even adding a "we'll be watching" seems like a way to get the few to straighten up. If you're following the rules, excellent! Watch your friends and others around you as well. Don't just sit back and do nothing.
Nice and very appropriate editorial Jeff. It needed to be said and luckily the same topic was mentioned in ACE News as well like Moosh pointed out.
-Danny, open your eyes...
------------------
Coaster Insomniacs- Coastin' the Night Away
Getting Back 2 Good
*** This post was edited by Koaster King 9/3/2003 11:04:42 AM ***
"Due to past documented actions by roller coaster enthusiasts at ERT events we cannot continue to hold such events due to insurance laibility issues. Please accept our apologies."
------------------
--George H
Currency Tracking Experiment...Where's George.com
My New Blog...Check it out
*** This post was edited by redman822 9/3/2003 11:17:48 AM ***
------------------
Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?
I'm really appalled by some of the responses in this thread. Some of you really don't get it, and if this many people in a small sample don't get it, misbehavior really is a wide spread problem.
I've seen enough just in my limited exposure to clubs to feel that Cedar Fair's letter is totally justified. What some of you people fail to realize is that a multi-million dollar business, like Cedar Fair, has a lot at stake when people misbehave. Cedar Fair has an outstanding reputation for running safe family parks. If some "enthusiass" falls out of a roller coaster at Park X, they are putting a very serious cloud over that shiny public image the park has. Not to mention all the things that go with it, like insurance premiums, litigation, etc. You're messing with the bottom line.
The point is, parks don't need clubs. Whatever publicity they get from clubs can be obtained in other ways, with probably less risk. Parks don't want club member's arrogance upsetting their bread and butter customers. Parks don't want a bunch of babies on their rides that need to be kicked in the rear for misbehaving. Parks don't need a bunch of people saying how much this ride sucks because of trim brakes. This list could go on and on.
I'm surprised some of you even have fun when you go to a park. If you want some ultimate adrenaline rush, go sky diving, cliff diving, mountain climbing, or some other high risk activity. Amusement parks are just meant to be fun, with rides for the entire family. They are operated for that end result. If you can't enjoy a ride in that way, go find something else to do. For every coaster nerd that feels that they are "special" so it's ok to break the rules, there are a thousand people who have fun riding carrousels, eating corn dogs and watching shows. Coaster clubs are an insignificant bump in a park's yearly revenue. They don't need clubs, and if behavior doesn't improve, they would be better off without them.
------------------
I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks,
than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.
I agree with what was said before. Our society is becoming more of the "horray for me, and to heck with you" type. It's on our roads when we drive. It's in the stores when we stand behind some idiot in the 12 items or fewer line that has a cart-load of stuff. People just don't care about eachother, or helping eachother out.
What I'd really love to see is seat belts that, when undone, report it to the station, and they know exactly which seat was undone, at what point on the ride, and if it simply came apart, or if the release button was pressed. Those that undo their seat belts should be given a free ride in the back seat of a police car.
I remember when there were no seat belts on rides, and just the lap bar held you down... just because I rode things for years without seat belts, and never falling out, doesn't mean I'm going to avoid wearing them. When the lap bar decides to move up a several positions (or fail altogether) on a ride, and the seat belt is the only thing that held you in, and you reach down for the grab bar and try to make the lap bar come down all the way and you were scared big time, you have a new appreciation for what held you in. It's bad enough people leave their lapbars waaaay loose, or turn off their seat belts. I had to experience the waaaay loose lap bar as a surprise in the middle of a ride. Not fun!
The parks don't owe us loose lap bars, or ERT, or anything. If you're riding Magnum and the trims are on, then the trims are on, and shut up! Yeah, we'd all love a trimless ride, but they're on, they're on because they NEED to be on, and that's it. Get over it. Be happy you're getting two extra hours of ride time that the general public does not. That by itself should make it worth it. If not, then why are you riding it during ERT?
Ok I've gone off on a bunch of tangents, but they all come back to just not being stupid, and following the rules, and appreciating the extras the parks are giving you, instead of trying to 'squeeze all you can' out of them. Just because you have a bajillion rides on something, or you've been to a park so many years in a row, or know everything from what kind of buttons are used on shirts to how many links there are in a chain, does not give ANYONE the right to cheat the system.
Jeff, more power to you.
------------------
18 straight years of following the rules at CP, and counting...
I definitely agree with everyone who has agreed with you. I did have one request that is IF Cedar Fair did not ask you to not post the actual letter is to post the letter that came from them. Maybe what is happening here will finally sink in.
Frankly I have been feeling like a lot of parks have been feeling burned by enthusiasts in general in recent years. It started even before SRM 2003. We NEED to be proactive and watch what we do and say otherwise our priviledges will be gone. And if SRM2003 was not enough to wake us up this letter had better be.
I accept that they are priveledges and that I dont deserve them. Nor does anyone have to give them to me. I personally appreciate them.
I would like to say thank you to all the parks, owners, and employees for having had the events that they have had in the past. I greatly appreciate that I was able to partake in them.
------------------
Zero G Thrills - Moved and Improved
*checking for it under all those MTR exit passes, Dawnmarie's chocolate martini coasters, and GatorTheme discounts*
edit: Rereading your post says you have tried it. Stapling and tightening is going to be the new craze... "I participate in S&T- Push and pull harder, I like it"... LOL! ;)
-Danny, had the best time at CP in 3 years... don't go on Saturdays!!
------------------
Coaster Insomniacs- Coastin' the Night Away
*** This post was edited by Koaster King 9/3/2003 11:50:45 AM ***
------------------
Missing the Fallen:
King Cobra 1984-2001
The Bat 1981-1983
------------------
- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson
-Danny
*** This post was edited by Koaster King 9/3/2003 12:02:37 PM ***
I *expect* other chains to follow suit in short order.....this is NOT what you'd call a "sneak attack" by CF, and the other chains need to protect themselves JUST as much...when loyalty meets liability, there is NO question which wins out...
I just HOPE that the damage can be repaired before it becomes irreversible....and much like the threads that came along shortly after SRM, some folks are ALWAYS going to take it personally....my *guess* is that those people just won't be invited to attend in the future...
Red Garter Rob said:
When it comes to the whole Alvey incident.. Ladies and gentlemen.. you'd be surprised on what effect this has had on the industry.. and what effect it WILL have..Not that REALLY makes me raise an eyebrow!
------------------
- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson
And yes, we DO take notice and yes it IS a problem. Don't think so? Come get a job at a park and THEN come talk to me.
Jeff is right on...
You must be logged in to post
