Enthusiasts on Notice

If you haven't read what Jeff posted I strongly suggest everyone read it. It's very important!

I don't want to open up a can of worms or a Pandora's Box or anything, but I hope we can have an intellegent discussion about it. But, you know how things can turn on even a moderated site like this one!

Anyway, for those who don't check the home page often...check this article out!

------------------
- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson

I thought it was a well written editoral. Bravo Jeff, and I couldn't agree more. I've been to one enthusiast event in my life, CoasterMania 2003 at Cedar Point. That one event has nearly convinced me that I will never join any coaster club again, be it ACE or CBuzz (I am still considering CBuzz as its not all about the events). I cannot tell you how many times I saw people cheating the rules because they think they know better. I think that a lot of this whining lately that people have "lost the feeling" is directly attributed to this kind of action also. If seeing someone die as that woman did earlier this year at Holiday World by skirting the rules doesn't convince you, perhaps a more self-centered approach of "if you follow the rules, you're just a well educated person having fun like everyone else" will get through.

Coaster enthusiasts are seen as brash and arrogant nerds and for good reason. We spout off statistics and engineering/technical facts like they're nothing (nerd), but we also unbuckle lap bars, keep our hips up so we don't get crushed (yes, I'm guilty of this one too, but I've knocked it off recently as I realized there's really no difference) and do other things that are less ride specific, but still breaking the basic rules of the park. Running of the bulls in a literal sense during ERT sessions. Sitting on the handrails and insisting its ok for you to do it because you know why they tell you not to. Heck, the entire concept of referring to them as "GP" is rather arrogant. Now have we "earned" some of our arrogance (as a group)? Yes, I think we have - our devotion to this hobby, however nerdy it is gives us some right to differentiate between those that know and those that don't (and we further make that distinction in our own community). But, just because you know how something works, or believe that you know (even Rideman, the endless bank of useful knowledge that he is doesn't profess to know everything) doesn't mean you can go beyond the rules that are in place for your protection.

Follow the rules. Stay in line and wait your turn like everyone else. Get stapled and strapped in like everyone else. But most of all, forget what you know and act like a "dumb tourist" when you're out there - you'd be surprised how much fun you can have!

------------------
Brett
Resident Launch Whore

I hope all the cats who used to rave about turning around while the train is in motion read this.

------------------
Lyrically, I'm supposed to represent
I'm not only a client, I'm the playa president!

Very straight-forward and to the point, Jeff. I agree that we have been on notice, however, I think its been much longer than just this year. The major event that occurred this year pretty much made public of what some enthusiasts are doing in the name of "fun."

I sincerely hope that these past events and this notice will change the ones that think they are excluded from the laws of physics. Remember, parks DO NOT have to offer the perks of being an enthusiast.

.. and I would expect to start seeing more letters like these from various parks in the near future. The events of this past season have led to this, and while a majority of the enthusiasts are not to blame. I feel the minority is going to lead to the eventual end of events.

Like Jeff said, enthusaists don't make or break a park, but they can make or break a fun day out for an innocent family who saved up all year for thier annual vacation.

Just some words.. but expect alot of events to fade into the past if people don't wise up.

------------------
June 11th, 2001 - Gemini 100
VertiGo Rides - 82

It's always the unfortunate few who spoil the fun for the many :(

------------------
- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson

Mr. Fussner may be in a high position at Cedar Fair, but his statement does NOT speak for all other theme park chains such as Six Flags or Paramount! I read the editorial once, and read it again for good measure. Cedar Fair may be a favorite among posters at this site and even the author of the editorial (can't really just call him Jeff because I don't know him at all...), but as I said, Cedar Fair is speaking for Cedar Fair. This is a warning to enthusiasts at ERT sessions at CF parks, not at other parks worldwide. I don't think such a big deal should be made over a letter such as this from a single theme park chain. CF only operates six major theme parks across the nation, whereas Six Flags operates something like 40. I cannot imagine a letter from the head of SF being written about in an editorial on this site, due to the apparent bias of the most frequent poster of editorials.

Now please, correct me if I'm wrong (I really want you to...), but **not all enthusiasts break rules like those mentioned**!!! I've never heard another enthusiast breaking the rules so much as the editorial states. To me, the basic idea that this editorial is putting across is that all enthusiasts are doing wrong, and you need to make better decisions. I don't do one-click rides, so all by myself I've proven that the editorial is making false presumptions. The editorial may be written to express the views of its author, but that's all it's doing. No statistics were given to back up the opinions in the editorial. Without proof, an opinion is more of a bad assumption. In my opinion, if anyone thinks that they should fully believe in this editorial they might as well take a one-click ride on the Raven. Offense shouldn't be taken at my comments, but until this editorial is revised with facts, my opinions will stand.

------------------
For original NoLimits creations go to My NoLimits Webpage

Even BEFORE the tragic occurrence at HW, there were many instances of *truly asinine* behavior on the part of enthusiasts. I had talked with a few people about the need for ACE (at that time, CBC wasn't even around) to "police its own". I wasn't thinking about safety situations at the time, more along the lines of those *taking privileges* that were neither offered nor due...

Sure, the coaster *clubs* will be held accountable for the actions of their respective members, but in ALL seriousness, accountability is on a PERSONAL level...each individual enthusiast *must* abide by the same rules as all other guests, and even "set a good example". Having FUN is why we go to parks, and it's just NOT fun when someone gets hurt.

Just because the word "some" is not included, doesn't mean any of us should take offense.

I also would bet that the other chains will be paying more attention to us and our events after what recently occured. I believe it would be prudent to think hard about what the editorial has to say before those chains send out the same sort of letters...

I'm an ACE member and yes there are people out there that do stupid things but I have a couple of problems with this editorial statement.

"The amusement parks don't need enthusiasts." An enthusiast is a guest no matter how you lable them. All the enthusiasts I know don't exhibit those problems that your article stems from. I WILL NOT warm up to that statemet, EVER! I obey all the rules and I will not hang out with anyone who tries to perform acts that could endanger themselfs or others. Not all enthusiasts perform these dangerous acts. I've seen plenty of GP do just as dangerous acts. Honostly it's not up to ACE or any other club to police it's people, it's common knowledge on a PERSONAL level to follow the rules. If the club has a problem with it, sure they can take action but grow a brain first and don't hurt yourself or others.

"Consider enthusiasts "on notice."" Give me a break, I'll never confirm to that. This whole article stems from one rotten apple ruining the bunch. Don't blame the entire club for one person's actions. The lack of examples from CP's view makes this statement even more bogus. If you need proof of enthusiasts following rules and having a great time at parks that love them, come out to Northern California and we'll show you how OUR club functions!
------------------
No Lapbar, No Seatbelt, No Problem!

---

Coastration said:

Now please, correct me if I'm wrong (I really want you to...), but **not all enthusiasts break rules like those mentioned**!!!

You're right. All enthusiasts are not breaking the rules. But, like rollergator said this is a matter of personal accountability, it is also the responsibility of all enthusiasts to police each other. If enthusiasts want to continue to get the priveliges extended that they have in the past, they will not have the luxury of turning the other way when their cohorts choose to abuse the perks. Enthusiast groups need to develop a culture that completely encompasses the discouragement of the activities mentioned in the editorial.

---

---

OLD CROW said:

This whole article stems from one rotten apple ruining the bunch. Don't blame the entire club for one person's actions.

Do you really think that one incident at a park that is not even part of the CF chain resulted in this letter?

---

It's an editorial, Coastration... it isn't meant to be research or facts. If the situation isn't obvious to you then you don't spend enough time in enthusiast groups or on message boards to understand the problem. But it is a fact that a very real person at Cedar Fair sent this letter to me and most other clubs.

It doesn't matter if it's only a few people... perception is reality. And if you think it's just Cedar Fair, you haven't talked to enough PR people to know. I, on the other hand, have. CF is just the only company to go on record. Impulse-ive is dead on, it's not just the disregard for safety, it's the general arrogance and attitude of enthusiasts. The feeling is shared throughout the industry, even if it's only a minority of enthusiasts who cause the problem. It's the very reason it's such a pain in the ass to land CoasterBuzzCon at a decent park next spring.

Live in whatever fantasy world you'd like, Coastration, just make sure you're setting a positive example. You're either part of the problem or part of the solution. It is a cultural issue in our community, whether your actions have contributed to the issuance of the letter or not.

------------------
Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?
*** This post was edited by Jeff 9/2/2003 10:37:12 PM ***

I really think that this is an over reaction that could jeapordize Coaster Con next year.
------------------
No Lapbar, No Seatbelt, No Problem!
*** This post was edited by OLD CROW 9/2/2003 10:35:40 PM ***

See... that's exactly the kind of reaction that contributes to the problem. "What's in it for me?"

My editorial is in response to the letter. I didn't write the letter, it was already there. Maybe other clubs or organizations will do exactly nothing and you'll never hear about the letter. So be it. That's their choice. My choice in my community is to make it an issue, to talk about it, and try to make a positive culture change. I don't want people representing my club being "enthusiasses." Enough is enough.

------------------
Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

Enthusiasts think the GP is stupid, and yes SOME of them are, and I don't mean because of their lack of coaster knowledge, I mean because of lack of common sense. But aLOT of enthusiasts are also lacking common sense. And its not everyone but some people, even the way they talk or act so to speak in these forums makes you wonder. I agree with Jeff and these parks. Its not easy running theme parks, especially when you have to cater to everyone, NOT just the coaster lovers. Most people spend alot of money to take their family to the park for a day, and their day does not need to be ruined by people who love coasters to a point that is unsafe. Then people complained about getting stapled. I realize there is a difference between being secure and cutting off circulation. People constantly complain if the lapbar is pushed more than 5 inches closer to their body. Alot of people complain about seat belts too. Before Predator had seat belts I almost fell out. I'm not kidding. On the first drop I was completely out of my seat, and I felt like I was falling out. I was extremely scared but very relieved when they got seatbelts. Also people complain about ride ops. Its not easy to check lapbars all summer, and it is a pain to deal with annoying guests. Enthusiasts complain when they see them stand for more than 10 seconds in the same position.

It may just be me, but I agree with what Jeff was saying in his editorial

------------------
http://sfdlmania.thrillnetwork.net

Six Flags Darien Lake Mania! Your #1 source for DL and other parks!

It's called discrimination Jeff! I don't cop that attitude "What's in it for me?" I know my place as an ACE member. I've yet to set my foot into Ohio but I'd love to attend con next year and ride Ohio's great rides but it's much more fun with a great bunch of friends that are in ACE. I think to fire off a letter like this warning a club that may or may not have done something wrong is in itself, wrong.
------------------
No Lapbar, No Seatbelt, No Problem!

Well I agree with Ride of Steel with that it's not everyone.I also agree with him on his point that not all of the GP has common sense but neither does every coaster enthusiast. There's those select few in each group that causes this sort of stuff...

------------------
Don't Fight It, Ride It, RAGING BULL!!!!!!- Six Flags Great America

*** This post was edited by Blink3020 9/2/2003 10:48:33 PM ***

I have to agree with Old Crow on this one.

This isn't something that an enthusiast group can police. It is for the induvidual park to enforce the rules.

I follow the rules and encourage others with me to do the same. Let people be responsible for their own actions (enthusiast or not).

I certainly don't need or want the lecture.

I think the point is exactly that the problem isn't isolated to a few people. The problem has become significant enough to make Cedar Fair stand up and take notice and they've been considerate enough to fire a warning shot across *everyone's* bow. They don't need the business that the clubs bring to their park, so this is just one additional courtesy that they've offered us.

If people are so concerned with the future of their beloved events and their esteemed status as "exclusive riders," I think it'd serve them better to make a point of ensuring their fellow riders comply with the rules. Certainly, it'd be more effective than taking shots at Jeff and absolving themselves of all responsibility by touting how much they follow safety guidelines. The problem isn't only that some enthusiasts push the boundaries of sensible judgement -- often in what's described as selfishly pursuing their interest and good time at the cost of everyone else's similar enjoyment. It's also that everyone else often behaves in an equally selfish way -- distancing themselves at all costs from the bad seeds because, heaven forbid, their chance to ride may be taken away.

People need to stop being stupid. If we see one of our own doing something dangerous, while they have to own up to their actions and be responsible for what happens, we should be the first to take them aside and give 'em a stern talking to. For their sake and ours.

It shouldn't have come this far.

------------------
--Maddie--
What do I Listen-To?
May the Schwarz be with you.
*** This post was edited by Chernabog 9/2/2003 10:58:36 PM ***