Enthusiasts on Notice

I think the "main idea" of this topic and what Jeff is trying to say is:

The general public may do stupid things, but so do enthusiasts. Enthusiasts, since they have more knowledge and "common sense", or should have, when it comes to amusement parks, should make smarter decisions so that us group of coaster lovers will have a good name, that appreciates ERT events, even though I've never been to one, and appreciates coasters and respects the parks rules. Basically we should be a higher class of amusement park goers and thats NOT happening.

That main idea as long but I think that is what Jef is trying to say. And its not just one person,

Most enthusiasts leave there lapbar up a few clicks (I do to a certain extent), most enthusiasts will talk about amusement parks facts, and thats fine, but theres a limit. We don't operate these parks, and these parks know what the rules should be and we must follow them.

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http://sfdlmania.thrillnetwork.net

Six Flags Darien Lake Mania! Your #1 source for DL and other parks!

Believe what you want, Old Crow... they sent the letter. It went to every enthusiast group they could think of. It doesn't matter if the club has members that are irresponsible... they're all enthusiasts, and the parks aren't going to differentiate one by one. Like I said, the leadership and membership of every club can choose to work with the parks in breeding a safe riding culture, or they can ignore it.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

I have to agree with what Impulsive is saying here about the fact that there is a general arrogance among enthusiasts in general at parks that goes past safety issues. I look at these threads that come up every so often about why park X won't give it's season pass holders Y or Z benefits. They feel like they are entitled to something extra. Then there were the jacka$$es at SRM that felt it necessary to demand a refund because the event was cancelled because someone didnt follow the safety rules and was tragically killed.

I look at my take on the hobby as something else. I think we OWE the parks quite a bit for all of the ride improvements that have been made over the years and the variety that is out there. I feel I am an example that because of the number of parks I go to and the number of times I attend the park, I should know the park rules better than others and should be able to help others when they arent complying with the rules accidentaly, through their own "ignorance" of the rules.

My last thing is about events. I have attended two events and had a great time at both. I think people need to realize that employees put in extra time, the park has to make extra accomidations, and there is a ton of planning that goes on to make an event go off. If you are attending an event there is only one thing you should be entitled to, and that is to be damned grateful that the park went out of their way to open up their park to you and gave you a very special opportunity. Take some time out of your marathoning coasters and thank the ride ops that are putting in extra time and thank the people that went in to organizing the event. At CBCon I went out of my way to talk to Susie Story and thank her profusely for holding a wonderful event at a wonderful park. I also thanked the ride ops on Superman for getting up early and getting the coaster running for us.

Bottom line is drop the arrogance and be damn glad to have what you do have now because if another safety related issue occurs with an enthusiast and you can kiss every enthusiast event bye bye. That is the cold hard truth.

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Bob Hansen
Resident Airtime Whore

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Bob Hansen
Resident Airtime Whore

Look, the concept of one rotten apple is not exclusive to coaster enthusiasts! Again, me me me me me. Now, some of you might take offense to some of what I have to say, but I apologize, its reality.

A good number of people in this world, racist or not are scared of predominantly non-white neighborhoods. Why? Because there are many televised shootings, gang violence, etc. among latin and african American populations. You know what? That's a lot more of a disservice to a great group of people that's caused by a few rotten apples!! It's the same concept as you're crying out about here. Jeff is doing us all a service by warning us that enthusiasts are beginning to be viewed as overstepping the boundaries. How would you feel if you were for some small infraction tossed from a park simply because they knew you were a coaster enthusiast and didn't want to deal with you? Then you come home, post your experience on this board and hear from Jeff that he knew about these letters weeks ago? Then you'd be screaming that he never told you there were problems. The only thing that's being proposed here is a little self control, and making those that do break the rules often feel like the asses that they are.

There are many worse things in this world to be concerned and offended about than being told that enthusiasts better watch their actions and stick to the rules (is it really that hard to do?).

Jeff - your policing of your own club has convinced me. You got my $20 ...

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Brett
Resident Launch Whore

It's about time somebody kicked some of our kind off from their footstools of arrogance.

Jeff, I have no problem following the rules at an amusement park. My personal behavior is not what your editorial spoke of. You mentioned enthusiasts as a whole, not individuals. As for being part of the solution or of the problem, I'm neither. If you're going to criticize enthusiasts as a whole, why not complain about park employees? Using your logic, I would be able to state that all theme park employees need to change their attitudes while working, every single one of them. They need to be more efficient while checking restraints. Now, as for those few people who don't operate rides and instead serve food, your logic would also tell them to check restraints better. Same goes for cashiers and park services employees. No exceptions of course....You're making sweeping generalizations of people, and once your point is disproven, you've challenged my own behavior. My behavior is not unsafe, nor disrespectful, or anything of the sort. The editorial was basically stating that enthusiasts don't follow the rules, but I see that as a lie because along with several others, I follow rules as best as I can. I understand how necessary rules are at a park, and that these rules will keep everything moving without trouble.

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For original NoLimits creations go to My NoLimits Webpage

I dont attend events since im not in any clubs and also because there usually arent any around me (VA/MD area), so I wouldnt know exactly what goes on at these events.

I'll admit that yes, I do do a little "cheating", but its only to the extent of maybe an inch - not that much at all. I will also never undo my seatbelt. On the Intamin's such as S:RoS or MF, I'll tighten my seatbelt all the way, and attempt to get about an inch. That leaves for plenty of space to float, and relieves from a tight fit thats uncomfortable. Basically, if I can sit up and my butt doesnt touch the seat, its enough.

As for the enthusiast behavior situation, the parks have a very good point. Maybe some of the less-knowlegable park goers dont think much of us, or perhaps it might be the oposite. But either way, we are still an example. Like a parent makes an influence on a child, an enthusiast may make an influence on a less knowlegable person. If someone gets hurt, we could be the ones to blame, and it doesnt make us look any better.

I ride because I love the rides just like everyone else. But when I go to a park, the only thing that might set me apart is my knowlege of the stats and maybe the shirt I'm wearing. I dont do anything really stupid or unsafe, and I dont believe I have set any bad examples. We are all at the parks to have a good time, and there is no reason to act in some insane behavior just because you think you know more than some other people do.

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1. Millennium Force
2. HypersonicXLC
3. Alpengeist

Man these threads move fast sometimes.

1) i don't doubt the validity of the letter ( it sounds like somthing CF would do).

2) How can anyone expect us to police the park of stupid guests. How are we to know who is an "enthusiast" or not. Or what is an enthusiast? Do they have to be a member of a club? This isn't our place people. Be responsible for yourself.

3) I do't know ANY arrogant enthusiast types who expect more because of their loyaty/knowledge/etc.. The only place i hear that kind of idiotic crap is on the boards. I would say that enthusiasts are overwhelmingly grateful for what is offered and still would be fans of the industry with or without the "perks"

4) i certainly can respect Jeff for trying to maintain a certain culture within his organization.

Coastration: You still don't get it... let me say it again. The enthusiast community is judged as a whole. If that weren't true, they wouldn't have sent the letter. Nobody cares about you and your ability to follow the rules. It doesn't mean a hill of beans when the idiot next to you is doing something unsafe and you choose to be indifferent about it.

It's not about you.

Gene: The letter was specific about behaviour at events... not just general operating hours. I think it's safe to say that people at events are, in fact, enthusiasts.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?
*** This post was edited by Jeff 9/2/2003 11:12:17 PM ***

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OLD CROW said:
I really think that this is an over reaction that could jeapordize Coaster Con next year.

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Bull****. Jeff has nothing to do with ACE. The letter went to Jeff as president of the Coasterbuzz Club. His actions and statements will have absolutely no effect on the relationship between Cedar Fair and ACE.

That said, I think Jeff's editorial is something that needed to be said. I've said much the same thing to many people in many different media. No, not all enthusiasts are at fault. Yes, plenty of non-enthusiasts do stupid things. But the point is, crap happens, and as hardcore riders, enthusiasts SHOULD know better. Lead by example. A few bad apples CAN ruin it for everyone -- let's not have the people who love these machines so much BE said rotten fruit.

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"The amusement parks don't need enthusiasts." An enthusiast is a guest no matter how you lable them.

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Yes, but a very, VERY small percentage of the annual income a park pulls in. I'll wager that's true even for the small struggling parks like Conneaut Lake. The truth is, after the incident at Stark Raven Mad, parks very well COULD cancel all enthusiast events, with little impact on their business bottom line. As much as we love parks, they do NOT "need" us.

I can see the counter arguments now. "But what about media days? What about Discovery Channel show shoots? How will they fill the trains for those?" The old fashioned way -- contests. "The first 50 lucky callers will get FREE entry into the park for a TV commercial shoot! Be the envy of your friends!"

Don't believe me? For the Hypersonic media day at King's Island, a radio station had held a contest -- "Be the first to ride!" There were ONE THOUSAND listeners there that day.

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--Greg, aka Oat Boy
My page
"What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy?" -- Londo Mollari, Babylon 5
*** This post was edited by GregLeg 9/2/2003 11:30:37 PM ***

I realize that the letter was not sent about me personally, in fact I mentioned nothing of my behavior until it was criticized by you. My basic point was to say that this single letter is not a major deal, it means very little coming from a chain representing only six parks. And on top of this, I was trying to communicate that your judgements and statements about the enthusiast community as a whole were unfair. I brought up myself to disprove your statements. I could have mentioned that John Doe follows all the rules, and the same point would have been achieved. Re-reading my original post will confirm this.

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For original NoLimits creations go to My NoLimits Webpage

Well, i can understand that anyone acting up at an event would bring a bad light on the group. But again i would ask the park why not hold those guilty responsible and threaten to cut off the rest? If it is so common for enthusiasts to cause trouble at events why hasn't it come up before? (and i'm not picking a fight with you Jeff, unless of course you represent the park, the whole thing just seems asinine).

It's like being in elementry school, "well if Bobby can't handle it then noone can."

Just because some people drink irresponsibly doesn't mean i shouldn't. Just because someone uses a gun for evil doens't mean i shouldn't have one. Just because some idiots can't follow the rules shouldn't cause parks to stop the events.

Obviously they found some value in them or it wouldn't happen.
*** This post was edited by meangene 9/2/2003 11:28:05 PM ***

meangene said:

How can anyone expect us to police the park of stupid guests. How are we to know who is an "enthusiast" or not. Or what is an enthusiast? Do they have to be a member of a club? This isn't our place people. Be responsible for yourself.

I don't think playing cop is our role, either, but don't ignore what you see happening right around you, whether it's an event or not. I recently rode in front of a guy who was bragging to his girlfriend about unbuckling his seatbelt in the past, and said he was going to do it on this ride. I turned around and asked him not too, saying "you might get hurt, and that would ruin your day at the park, not to mention my day." Yeah, it's a risk to say these things...but what's the worst that can happen...somebody mumbles a choice name for you...probably not the first time, people (but then again, I tell punk kids to pick up their trash pretty regularly). Best thing, someone doesn't get hurt and you have a great day at the park. See, it is sort of about you. ;)
*** This post was edited by dawnmarie313 9/2/2003 11:28:50 PM ***

i would probably do it just to get called a choice name, if i were to do it at all. ;)

Jeff, this is exactly the response I figured your piece was going to get. It's one or two folks who just don't get it that reflects upon everybody.

As I was saying earlier it's the "it's all about me" attitude that so many Americans hold. Don't believe me folks? Talk to anybody in any other country about their opinions of Americans and I'll bet you Dollars to Yen that one of the first things they'll mention is arrogance (I'm too good to be one of the folks breaking the rules) and greed (this is going to screw up CoasterCon next year, isn't it?)

This attitude isn't limited to just roller coaster enthusiasts- it's found all over our society today. It's an attitude that is slowly running our society into the ground.

Disagree with me and want to flame me? That's fine, just don't do it here. Try namlig1@yahoo.com instead.

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- John
Homepark: Cedar Point
Home-away-from-homepark: Paramount's Kings Island

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Coastration said:
My basic point was to say that this single letter is not a major deal, it means very little coming from a chain representing only six parks.

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It's a VERY big deal. The fact that ANY park, let alone one of the big gun chains felt the need to send that out says a LOT. How many people go through the gates of those "6 parks". This is NOT a small chain.

Silverwood was prepared to make CAC attendees sign waivers this year. What's your response to that -- "Not a big deal, it's only a small park in Idaho"?

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--Greg, aka Oat Boy
My page
"What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy?" -- Londo Mollari, Babylon 5

Out of curiousity, when was the last time a park invited an individual out for an after-hours riding session? Yeah, I can't think of anything, either.

It's myopic to take advantage of all the benefits that being a part of the "coaster enthusiast" community brings, then turning around a moment later and claiming how you shouldn't be penalized or held accountable for the behavior of that group. If you feel that you're so entitled to the good will of these parks because you follow rules and don't stir up trouble, please, write a trip report about the next time you're invited out for a few early morning rides.

Again -- the only reason you have access to special events is because you're a part of a group. If you can't be bothered to make sure that the behavior, image and reputation of that group is on par with your own standards of behavior, image and reputation, you shouldn't be at their events. It's that simple.

Let me know when you get your invitation for exclusive-to-you-alone-ride-time on Top Thrill Dragster.

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--Maddie--
What do I Listen-To?
May the Schwarz be with you.

The only organization I represent, Gene, is CoasterBuzz Club.

Why should the parks cut everyone off because of a few bad apples? Why not? As many have said here before, they're under no obligation to do anything for us (us being enthusiasts). If enthusiasts are becoming a hassle, cut them off. They don't need us.

I think what I find most troubling about some of the comments in this topic is that so many of you don't think there's a problem. That's staggering to me. I thought there was a problem five years ago when I started to get serious about being a coaster enthusiast. It was closing day at CP on the Magnum platform, where a bunch of jerks in club apparel (official designees or not, they were representing that club) were complaining that they were entitled to the last ride of the season. That forever spoiled my view of that club, even though 99.9% of the other members would likely never exhibit that behaviour. Can you see now where the parks would be coming from?

In a perfect world, it wouldn't matter what other people did, and all people would be held personally accountable. In the real world, we're judged on behalf of the actions of those most visible within our community. In this case, that's the troublemakers. I don't want to be lumped in with them any more than you do, which is precisely the reason I'm doing something about it instead of pretending there is no problem.

It's my opinion that as an enthusiast, if you love your hobby, you lead by example and let others know about it when they exhibit unsafe or unacceptable behaviour.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

Coasterdude04, if you haven't already heard, there's an event at SFA next weekend the 6th. It's the annual Coaster Zombie Invasion. Registration is still available. As far as I know, there's ERT on Joker's Jinx in the morning and S:ROS at night. There should also be a catered picnic.

As for the editorial, I have to say that a certain couple has certainly set a bad example on their home videos.
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If someone makes a post and you post-quote it right beneath it, you're wasting bandwidth. Think before you press the button.

I do the same thing dawnmarie313. I tell kids and others all the time to sit down when they try and stand up on a ride that is not designed for that. I've even yelled at a ride op that jumped on to a moving train and did a "side-saddle" on the edge of the train and jumped off before it left the station.

I'm not on everyones case 100% time but if I see it's going to really hurt that person, I speak up. The dumb thing is that they are trying to be cool or impress another by (and use your best Stewart on Mad TV voice) "Look what I can do!" stunt. My point in my posts is dont point your finger at me and put me and my group of friends in the same boat. We respect the rules and if another person is responsible for causing harm or disobeying a rule, confront him or her and take action to the individual, not the group. It has nothing to do with attitude or getting something special that others don't, i.e. A-list. It's basically calling the kettle black. Eveyone here is considered an enthusiast. You wouldn't be here unless you are reading this from the other side of the turnstile.
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No Lapbar, No Seatbelt, No Problem!