Enthusiast ban list is real
Isn't is now pretty clear? Here is our rule. If you break our rule, he are the penalties. And, to show you we mean business, we have already banned certain abusers.
Someone get me a contractor because I have smashed a hole in my wall with my head.
Houston Thrills said:
Actually, that's pretty much how the whole system works. If it doesn't say you can't do it, then you can. How many cases have there been where people were doing things that common sense would tell you not to do and got injured, but won because nothing said they couldn't do it?
That, Sir, is where you are VERY wrong. When it comes to laws, policies, and rules, if you've ever had ANY law classes or read ANY law books, you would know that in America, it is your responsibility to know and understand laws, not the law's responsibility to tell you what the law is, so that is not an argument. Its like saying, "Officer, I didn't see a sign that said it was only 35 MPH, so that is why I went 104". It is your responsibility to know and understand and thus obey a law.
The only time a person can sue and win is if there is any question about if the law/rule/policy is common sense, or if the park had a problem and didn't enforce the law. I.E., you go into a park and ride a ride. You know the lap bar has to be lowered and clicked, but you don't. The ride ops don't make any announcement or come and check you're restraint(which they are required to do) and thus you get hurt. Or maybe there is some obscure rule at a park that you can't eat pizza with your hands. You don't know the rule, you don't obey, its not posted, and thats not common sense, yet you incure some type of injury or loss for eating pizza with your hands. The park didn't make this obscure rule known, there fore, its their fault. Its like what MagForce is saying. If there is a rule that isn't posted and a park dosen't enforce it, while it dosen't make it holy and right, its not as much your fault that the park didn't enforce it, and thus You may or may not have a case on your hands. But this, "if it isn't stated and I don't know so I can do what I want" crap is just that, garbage. It would never stand up in a court of law, and you would be laughed at by every one present. If you know something to be common sense and you do it, you're an idiot. If the park lets you get away with it, they're a bigger idiot. I'm not pointing fingers, I've done POV pix(most notably PKDs Rebel Yell). From now on, I'll ask permission, and follow guidelines.
Its like I tell the underaged people that come to my workplace and try to buy alchohol. When I was their age, I went to places that would sell me the stuff. It was foolish on my part cause I was breaking the law, but it was more foolish on the part of the place selling me the stuff, and so I did it, but that didn't make it "okay". I, on the other hand, am not an idiot, and I'm an "I.D. nazi" as some have called me, cause I card everyone for alcohol/tobacco/adult magazines. I won't sell to that person if they are underaged, if the I.D. is expired, if its past time for selling drinks, or if the person is already drunk. That is the law, wheather they know it or not. I know it, and I enforce it.
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"I feel so delightfully White Trash..."
*** This post was edited by TeknoScorpion 10/17/2003 11:39:54 AM ***
Ignorance of the law is not a defense.
Radar detectors are illegal in Virginia. If you get pulled over and the cop cites you for your radar detector, you are not going to get off if you say, "gee officer, I didn't know."
quoting wahoo skipper to save time, but really referring to TeknoScorpion:
To sum up the above:Ignorance of the law is not a defense.
I never said it was.
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Swat at the sun alongside El Diablo in 2003!
Only at Six Flags AstroWorld!
http://www.houstonthrills.com
Translation: "If I don't know(am ignorant) that I'm not allowed to do something and do it anyway, I'm not breaking a rule/law/policy".
So, yes, you DID say that.
oh, and JWolg, SHUT UP!!11!1!;)
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"I feel so delightfully White Trash..."
MagnumForce said:
Some people took footage on X.I don't think they have much credibility either.
I have not taken any footage on X (or any ride for that matter, especially seeing as I don't have a video camera :) ), but I did see a German tourist get on X with a small video camera in plain sight of the ride-ops, and they didn't say a word to him. He made no attempt to hide it, and was even checking through the viewfinder when they came to check his restraints.
If that doesn't seem like implicitly condoning on-ride video taping, what does?
If they dont enforce a rule does not mean it is not a rule. Also even if it is not a written rule does it mean that it is ok to do it. That is why asking permission is best. If at guest relations says YES then ask them to put it in writing to CYOA! Also if you get permission from guest relations and a ride op says NO, then I would suggest to err on the side of caution and listen to the ride op. You cant go wrong that way. Likely in most cases you will likely find that they wont allow you to take you cameras on the ride with you. It just is not right to assume. We all know what that does. ;) If in doubt at all and you dont have permission...dont do it.
The only park I have been to that requires you to take everything with you was Disneyland and Disney's California Adventure. Also of note is that I dont recall spotting any lockers at either park. Though they probably are there, I probably just missed them.
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Zero G Thrills - Moved and Improved
Like the post above which discusses speeding...Just because "someone" doesn't tell you to not drive over the speed limit doesn't make it OK.
Ride Ops have "plenty" to worry about between cycles without having to DOUBLE check you and your camera (which the Ride OP at the entrance told you to put away.)
With regard to POV from "Discovery" or any other MEDIA Outlet, these videos are shot in a VERY SAFE CONTROLLED Environment.
Look people it's simple if yoiu HAVE to ask for permission, it means your actions are probably ouot of line.
Go to the parks have fun and ENJOY. Don't try to figure out what you can "get away with".
The One The Only Coaster God said:
Look people it's simple if yoiu HAVE to ask for permission, it means your actions are probably out of line.
I dont totally agree with you on that. If one has to ask they are merely looking to clarify a rule or lack thereof. Personally there is nothing wrong with that. Now if they said no and you still did it anyway...then you should be ashamed of yourself. Though I am sure guest relations has better things to do than answer a question about whether or not it is ok to take a camera on a ride and use it. But I am sure that they would rather you ask first and be given the opportunity to say no then to be liable for ones actions if they lost control of their camera and it hurt someone.
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Zero G Thrills - Moved and Improved
*** This post was edited by beast7369 10/17/2003 1:22:17 PM ***
The Parks don't want to be police, they want you to have FUN but do it safely.
TeknoScorpion said:
"If it doesn't say you can't do it, then you can."Translation: "If I don't know(am ignorant) that I'm not allowed to do something and do it anyway, I'm not breaking a rule/law/policy".
So, yes, you DID say that.
No, that's just a bad translation. The correct translation is "If there's no written rule/law/policy that says I cannot do it, then I can."
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Swat at the sun alongside El Diablo in 2003!
Only at Six Flags AstroWorld!
http://www.houstonthrills.com
*** This post was edited by Houston Thrills 10/17/2003 1:52:00 PM ***
*** This post was edited by Houston Thrills 10/17/2003 2:03:17 PM ***
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Kennywood Team Member Since July 2003
Phantom Fright Nights Fridays & Saturdays
September 12 - October 25
Tom Servo said:
If that doesn't seem like implicitly condoning on-ride video taping, what does? (emphasis added)
And this, folks, is the problem. It goes back to my whole "testing the line" theory: everyone assumes that if it's not perfectly spelled out for them in black and white, then it's okay to do.
IT'S NOT!
Everyone says, "Oh, Tamar died and times changed," and it doesn't seem to me like they have. If her death had any kind of impact, there would be no need to examine the implicit definitions of ride rules.
Yes, we're human. Mistakes are made, incidents occur, accidents happen. But why are we as a community so intent on not taking the responsibility to ensure that we take every measure we possibly can to ensure that an accident DOESN'T happen?
And we as enthusiasts are, whether we like it or not, setting an example to those around us. Take this as an example: you have a band of 100 people marching on a field, and the next move is a hold. Of those 100 people, one person steps through the hold. What do you notice? The 99 people who performed the hold correctly, or the one person who stepped through.
Translate it to our scenario: you have a coaster train of 32 people, and one person has an obscenely high lap bar. If you're in the station, looking over the train, what do you notice? The 31 well-strapped-in riders? Or the one person trying to get extra air?
The GP notices when we try to bend the rules. And perhaps not all the time, but much of the time, it influences them to try something of the like. And when they try something dangerous and don't know how to handle themselves in that situation, accidents happen. Tamar, as an enthusiast, was presumably more aware of the risks of that high lapbar, and an accident still happened.
It still seems like the issue of "common sense" is lost on a lot of the discussion in this thread. Why does something have to be "legal" or "illegal," "implicit" or "explicit," "by the book" or "against the rules?" Why isn't it enough to just say, "it's not safe, DON'T DO IT?" We know it's risky, we know it's dangerous -- and yet we still try to justify doing it.
THAT'S why people get hurt and killed. That's why people will CONTINUE to get hurt and killed.
It's not really that complex of an issue.
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[Nitro Dave -- 145 Laps] [Track Record: 89 and counting...]
Princeton University -- Class of 2007
In the Nation's Service, and in the Service of All Nations
PPP '03 -- High Speed Thrill Coaster Nonuple-lapper
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Kennywood Team Member Since July 2003
Phantom Fright Nights Fridays & Saturdays
September 12 - October 25
John is an employee at a local park. He sees Jack doing something that he isn't supposed to on a ride, stand up. So John stops the ride at the mid-course breaks and removes Jack. Jack goes to the manager and complains. John is fired since the manager had no choice, this or a possable law suit. I'm not joking here. I saw this a few times this summer. I think if we see management supporting their employees more, I think we'll see more rules inforced.
Now to add, if you don't know about a rule, it's your fault. I mean 99.9% of all ride I've ridden have all the rules and then some listed before you ride.
Now, the Discovery POVs are taken when the actuall ride mechanics attach a camera mount to the cars and then attach the camera to that.
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Love,
The Mole
Houston Thrills said:No, that's just a bad translation. The correct translation is "If there's no written rule/law/policy that says I cannot do it, then I can."
But referring back to my CP example, most parks *do* have written rules, they're just not posted at every single ride. However if you ask at park relations, you can receive a copy.
It goes back to ignorance is not an excuse. The rules are there.
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www.coasterimage.com
Dorney Park Visits in 2003: 17
Lord Gonchar said:
But referring back to my CP example, most parks *do* have written rules, they're just not posted at every single ride. However if you ask at park relations, you can receive a copy.It goes back to ignorance is not an excuse. The rules are there.
I don't think you get it......I'm not referring to the vast majority that have the rule, I'm referring to the ones that don't.
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Swat at the sun alongside El Diablo in 2003!
Only at Six Flags AstroWorld!
http://www.houstonthrills.com
That's a lot of incompetence when your talking about multi-million (or in the case of insurance carriers, -billion) dollar companies.
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http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~bnoble/
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